The Satin Sheet Thread  

Satin Sheet

I have been impressed with it thus Far.  I have two for my Minis and one on my MK3S.  

As mentioned above, it does require a different live Z (Z Offset).  Initially, I was trciked into thinking My was dead on with the textured but my sheet required a little more (-) Z offset.  

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Hello Everyone 

I bought the Satin Sheet as I saw some good comments on how good it is for PETG and since I am now starting to use more and more this material I decided to get the satin sheet in the hope to replace the standard PEI to print more with PETG. Unfortunately, after I made a First layer calibration from my MK3S+ Menu and what I believed was a good calibration, things didn't go as expected. After I started to my first print on the Satin Sheet I had a really hard time printing with PETG, The nozzle often will start to get with filament debris sticking on it with the consequence of ruining the first layer.

With the stock PEI Sheet, my Z height was 1.475 and with the Satin, one is 1.685, I tried another First layer calibration and with -1.685, now the first 2 or 3 lines of the calibration were adhering well so I went down to -1.700. the small square on the First layer calibration comes up quite good but when printing other larger stuff the first layer easily gets ruined.

Should I go lower than -1.700? I also used a glue stick which works very well with the PEI sheet.

Now I revert back to the stock PEI sheet as don't have enough Time in experimenting on the Satin sheet and I need my prints quickly.

I using Esun PETG Btw.

Did anyone have similar issues or may anyone care to give advice or suggestions?

Regards

Daniel

RE:

So considering it seems like the smooth sheets for the mk3s are no longer on the eshop (except 2nd's ) , looking into one of these sheets used for PLA only ( have the textured for PTEG and happy with results )

what are people's feedback on these before I go parting with £40 plus shipping plus import taxes to the uk, been through this thread and not much on PLA really that seems to be convincing me otherwise.

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

I have both the Satin and the stock smooth sheet that came with my PRUSA MK3S+ , when I switched to PETG on my smooth sheet I had a lot of trouble getting the first layer correct for the PETG prints but once I figure it out they came out ok. Layer adhesion with PETG on the smooth sheet is very good and I didn't have any prints lifting off the bed. once I switched to the Satin sheet the first layer for the PETG was no longer trouble and the first layer come's out as if it's an injection molded part, it comes out really really nice. 

But I had a bit of print that lifted up from the satin sheet, not completely but for me was enough to ruin some prints and the same happened when I used PLA on the SATIN sheet.

The nice thing about the SATIN sheet is that once you leave it to cool down once the print is done, the print will detach all by it self and you won't even need to clean the bed, with the smooth you have to be careful with PETG because there is a risk to damage the sheet. 

so for me, the stock smooth sheet is very well suited for the PLA and it would be also excellent for PETG if it wasn't for the first layer problem. the Satin is nice to start with PETG but I had a bit of trouble with prints lifting up from the bed and with PLA as well.

Now I'm Tempted to try the Textured one, I like the finish of the first layer I have on my printer Parts so I might get one.

Regards

Daniel

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Both sheets work well.  With some of the PETG brands, you have to watch over adhesion.  You can pull off your print surface.  This is especially true if you get too low and give it that extra squish.  

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

interesting response, its not really the news I was hoping for in regards to PLA lifting away from the sheet.

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

For what very little it is worth, I've managed to gouge one of my PEI sheets (z-adjust mistake when swapping between it and the satin sheet; I must explore the slicer options to do that automatically for me).  The sheet is 9 months old, has been used quite heavily, but was still releasing just fine.

I'm treating the sheets the same way I would bicycle chains or doormats - not disposable per se, but things that do wear with use and need replacing (in the case of a bicycle chain, I get through a couple every year).  I clean them with washing up liquid ("dish soap") and the spongy side of a cleaning pad rather than the scouring side - that's been fine for me.

Treating the satin sheet the same way, although I don't print much in PETG so expect it to last the life of the printer.  

In terms of releasing stubborn prints, I would not dream of using a scraper.  I find that patience works best (perhaps swapping to a different sheet if I want to carry on printing straight away).  To speed the process or deal with something particularly stubborn I might pop the sheet into the freezer for ten minutes, or alternatively use a bit of isopropyl alcohol; I have yet to encounter anything that one or the other won't help with.

But then I mostly print with PLA, which helps. 

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Yup.  The sheets are consumable and it will not be the last time you gouge one.  I will say that it does become less frequent with experience.  

Posted by: @richard-d

For what very little it is worth, I've managed to gouge one of my PEI sheets (z-adjust mistake when swapping between it and the satin sheet; I must explore the slicer options to do that automatically for me).  The sheet is 9 months old, has been used quite heavily, but was still releasing just fine.

I'm treating the sheets the same way I would bicycle chains or doormats - not disposable per se, but things that do wear with use and need replacing (in the case of a bicycle chain, I get through a couple every year).  I clean them with washing up liquid ("dish soap") and the spongy side of a cleaning pad rather than the scouring side - that's been fine for me.

Treating the satin sheet the same way, although I don't print much in PETG so expect it to last the life of the printer.  

In terms of releasing stubborn prints, I would not dream of using a scraper.  I find that patience works best (perhaps swapping to a different sheet if I want to carry on printing straight away).  To speed the process or deal with something particularly stubborn I might pop the sheet into the freezer for ten minutes, or alternatively use a bit of isopropyl alcohol; I have yet to encounter anything that one or the other won't help with.

But then I mostly print with PLA, which helps. 

 

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Seems like I am getting less adhesion than I use to. I only print with Coex PETG. In fact, it seems one side of the satin sheet has a lot less adhesion than the other side. Just realized that wiping down the sheet while it is still warm with IPA is a no no. Could that have caused my adhesion issues?

My Z seems to be correct. In fact for awhile, I probably had it too low.

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

I bought the Satin Sheet just this week, because it was not available on Prusa e-shop during last year. Old PEI sheet on my MK 2.5S was destroyed year ago. This old one was ok for PETG printing as well. But when I bought last year new PEI sheet, I recognised that there is problem to remove PETG models from this new sheet. I started with Satine yesterday evening and It was difficult for me to adjust first layer calibration. After several experiments I recognised that problem is caused with different thicknessof sheets. The PEI sheet has 1,3 mm while the Satin one 0,7 mm. So it is necessary to setup p.i.n.d.a appropriate high first. And then the first layer calibration can be done. Then I succeeded to print few models with PETG Prusament. 

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

how have you found it since ? 
I ended up getting a factory second (new) pei sheet as they don’t seem to have them new on their site .

I still prefer my textured sheet for PETG and pei for pla but have no experience with the satin 

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

I'm sorry, it is my oversight. I don't have the Satin but Textured sheet.

RE:

Hey Everyone!   I just got the new Satin sheet and I'm having issues which I think are adhesion issues. 

I've posted all of my images here: https://imgur.com/gallery/pAHRwL6

If you look around the edges I think that is adhesion issues, right?  Specifically in the top left and bottom right corners, but along the right edge you can see issues too.

I'm printing with Prusament Galaxy Silver PLA on a MK3S+ with a .40 nozzle.   I've been boosting my bed temps from the original 60 degrees Celsius and so far I'm up to 63 degrees Celsius for my PLA filament and I'm still having issues.  I think it's getting better as I'm increasing temps, but I'm not sure if this is the right "fix".   Keep in mind, that I'm able to print this just fine with ZERO issues using the normal steel PEI plate @ 60 degrees Celsius that came with the printer (which was calibrated by Prusa, not me).

I'm just wondering if I'm on the right track by boosting bed temps?  Or is it something else like the live Z setting (currently at -1.635mm offset) being too low?  Is it the nozzle itself?  Is it a bad sheet?  Did anyone else have to increase bed temps to get the Satin sheet to work properly?  Is that normal?

I've washed the sheet in warm water and Dawn dish soap too as some have suggested but still having issues.

I'm not discouraged, but I am a little disappointed as I thought I could just drop this in and adjust the Z accordingly.  I was hearing all kinds of great things about the Satin sheet but if I have to increase bed temps that also means I will need to change my PrusaSlicer PLA settings for ALL PLA options too, right?  And I haven't even tested with PETG yet.

All thoughts are welcome and thank in advance for anything you can add.  I appreciate it!

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

did you ever resolve this issue ? 

Posted by: @superted

Hey Everyone!   I just got the new Satin sheet and I'm having issues which I think are adhesion issues. 

I've posted all of my images here: https://imgur.com/gallery/pAHRwL6

If you look around the edges I think that is adhesion issues, right?  Specifically in the top left and bottom right corners, but along the right edge you can see issues too.

I'm printing with Prusament Galaxy Silver PLA on a MK3S+ with a .40 nozzle.   I've been boosting my bed temps from the original 60 degrees Celsius and so far I'm up to 63 degrees Celsius for my PLA filament and I'm still having issues.  I think it's getting better as I'm increasing temps, but I'm not sure if this is the right "fix".   Keep in mind, that I'm able to print this just fine with ZERO issues using the normal steel PEI plate @ 60 degrees Celsius that came with the printer (which was calibrated by Prusa, not me).

I'm just wondering if I'm on the right track by boosting bed temps?  Or is it something else like the live Z setting (currently at -1.635mm offset) being too low?  Is it the nozzle itself?  Is it a bad sheet?  Did anyone else have to increase bed temps to get the Satin sheet to work properly?  Is that normal?

I've washed the sheet in warm water and Dawn dish soap too as some have suggested but still having issues.

I'm not discouraged, but I am a little disappointed as I thought I could just drop this in and adjust the Z accordingly.  I was hearing all kinds of great things about the Satin sheet but if I have to increase bed temps that also means I will need to change my PrusaSlicer PLA settings for ALL PLA options too, right?  And I haven't even tested with PETG yet.

All thoughts are welcome and thank in advance for anything you can add.  I appreciate it!

 

 

 

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Posted by: @kevman

did you ever resolve this issue ? 

Posted by: @superted

Hey Everyone!   I just got the new Satin sheet and I'm having issues which I think are adhesion issues. 

I've posted all of my images here: https://imgur.com/gallery/pAHRwL6

If you look around the edges I think that is adhesion issues, right?  Specifically in the top left and bottom right corners, but along the right edge you can see issues too.

I'm printing with Prusament Galaxy Silver PLA on a MK3S+ with a .40 nozzle.   I've been boosting my bed temps from the original 60 degrees Celsius and so far I'm up to 63 degrees Celsius for my PLA filament and I'm still having issues.  I think it's getting better as I'm increasing temps, but I'm not sure if this is the right "fix".   Keep in mind, that I'm able to print this just fine with ZERO issues using the normal steel PEI plate @ 60 degrees Celsius that came with the printer (which was calibrated by Prusa, not me).

I'm just wondering if I'm on the right track by boosting bed temps?  Or is it something else like the live Z setting (currently at -1.635mm offset) being too low?  Is it the nozzle itself?  Is it a bad sheet?  Did anyone else have to increase bed temps to get the Satin sheet to work properly?  Is that normal?

I've washed the sheet in warm water and Dawn dish soap too as some have suggested but still having issues.

I'm not discouraged, but I am a little disappointed as I thought I could just drop this in and adjust the Z accordingly.  I was hearing all kinds of great things about the Satin sheet but if I have to increase bed temps that also means I will need to change my PrusaSlicer PLA settings for ALL PLA options too, right?  And I haven't even tested with PETG yet.

All thoughts are welcome and thank in advance for anything you can add.  I appreciate it!

 

 

 

 

Can you post an image of your first layer test?  

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Hey all

I just opened up the satin sheet I ordered with th printer, I've done a couple rolls of petg/pla on the OEM smooth sheet.

so I plop it down and soon discover the first layer call is very different, nearly half a mm.

while the several attempts go by, I notice 2 things.

the satin sheet is a 0.5 thinner

eyeballing, and micing the long single strand of the first layer cal,

I see alot of  thickness variation with the satin, that I did not notice with the smooth.

it may be there, only noticed during the trouble finding the sweet spot with the satin, or, the thinner sheet follows the bed differently

either way,

why the difference?

is the probe seeing the bed, or the sheet?

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

The pinda sees the steel sheet beneath the coating.

The satin and textured sheets are both thinner than the smooth PEI sheet and require a greater negative offset as a result. This is well documented in the forums.

RE:

so what is the guidance when transitioning from the PEI sheet to the Satin sheet as far as Z calibration ? do is it roughly different by .5 mm as was mentioned in the post by meicalnissyen

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

well I'd say you set it to get a layer thickness you desire for that mat'l/part etc. the number will be what it will be.

I've never done abl before, but stayed at Holiday Inn, yea?

I'm just noticing things out loud,   several things could acct for the diff, most covered in some early pinda thread.

I do wonder tho, which side of the sheet or perhaps center, the inductor sees.  cuz the powder coat isnt gonna be more than 4 thou different, thats alot of build up to get that much.

consistent once ca'ld, ok in my book.

wish the first layer cal routine ended with the print head  +50 on the Z...........

RE: The Satin Sheet Thread

Posted by: @kevman

so what is the guidance when transitioning from the PEI sheet to the Satin sheet as far as Z calibration ? do is it roughly different by .5 mm as was mentioned in the post by meicalnissyen

I don’t own the smooth PEI sheet, only the textured and the satin (which are nearly the same thickness) so I may not be the best person to reply…

Start by creating a sheet profile for the PEI sheet (assuming that’s your default) so you don’t lose the value you have dialed-in for that. Then create a new sheet profile for the satin sheet (assuming that’s your new one). Use the procedure outlined here:

https://help.prusa3d.com/article/steel-sheet-profiles_1955

Run the built in live z calibration to find a starting point for a proper z value for the new sheet. Once you have square corners and a solid flag at the end of the run, use your preferred method to fine tune and lock in the z value for the new sheet. That’s it.

I generally run one of the 75 mm X 75 mm X 0.2 mm squares from Jeff Jordan’s ‘Life Adjust Z - my way’ routine for fine tuning. You can find it here if interested:

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-assembly-and-first-prints-troubleshooting/life-adjust-z-my-way/

Now you have two sheets with profiles set in firmware that you can swap between as needed and never have to ‘start from scratch’ for your z value again, unless it drifts or the nozzle wears, or you get a finicky filament, or you move your printer, or one of the million other 3D printing gremlins comes to visit 😉.

It should be that easy (famous last words) but keep you finger near the kill switch when you run the first calibration just in case something unexpected happens.

Good luck!