Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
I am preparing my decorations for a Christmas party in a few weeks, as I signed up to decorate one of the tables with Christmas and winter themed things. I couldn't resist using my 3D printer this year (didn't have one last year), and I wanted to include some lithophanes with UV backlighting (let me get to that, I have some AMAZING news regarding using blacklights for lithophanes. Spoiler alert: put a piece of white paper/paper towel next to or up against the back of your lithophane to absorb and emit the UV for an incredible picture. This works using even a single low power uv led bulb) [paper towel works great if it's the kind that glows].
So, I was printing a 200x200mm lithophane, the biggest I've attempted so far, and it was a 10 hour print. It was a curved litho, 30 degrees only (mostly straight in other words, and printed along the Y axis) and I added a 2mm thick rectangle at the base with a 4mm brim with no elephant foot compensation so the brim would connect better. I am using new filament, new out of the package and new to me (ive never used "classic white lithophane filament by American Filament" before), and I tried to quickly dial in the settings for a good first layer...looked good to me but the first few attempts pulled off the bed pretty quickly into the print. Might have been printing too fast, maybe too hot, I'm not entirely sure but I don't have a lot of extra time for this so if I wasn't going to get this to work out within a couple days I would have to move onto the rest of my planning for the event so as to have a good presentation- lithophanes or not. Long story short, the way I described my setup is what I tried on my 3rd attempt, and it seemed to be holding nicely. I lowered the temp to 210, and slowed down the print to 95% speed, and also had the speeds custom a bit in prusaslicer to start with. After the first hour or two I went to do other things, and came back almost half-way into it. With more than 5 hours remaining, I was very sad to see that one side of the print had begun pulling up off the bed....it wasn't really warping as much as it was just lifting...I kinda freaked out and tried to think of a way to save it. The thing was still printing fine somehow, but I knew (don't we all know this) it was a matter of time before the entire thing came disconnected from the bed and the print would be thrown into my bin of failure (I bought a filastruder recently btw, more on that in the upcoming weeks I hope). I wondered if I could "glue it down" by attaching the lifted portion to the brim by using my 3D pen.....so I paused the print, turned my pen on, and then used it like a hot glue gun "filling in the space between the print and the brim/printbed". It not only WORKED REALLY WELL, but the upper portion of the litho printed very cleanly with no rippling or whatnot horizontal lines (im not sure the exact term here, but when the tall lithophane becomes slightly wobbly and you get some of those horizontal lines across it if you don't print slowly enough) and it finished while remaining very secured to the print bed. As for the adhesion to the bed, the pen actually only connected the print to the brim, and so it removed just as easily as it would have normally. I know that in a perfect world, we should all know our filament and slicers and be able to get perfect adhesion and be able to print thin pieces without issues, but I'm still new to a lot of this and it was a very thin litho at 2.5mm thickest and .6mm thinnest, and at 200mm tall (8inches is really big, thats what she said) this was an incredibly simple, fast, and effective solution! I am absolutely going to do this for ALL of my tall lithophanes from now on. I have had no issues in the past with shorter lithophanes, but this one was taller than anything i've done and thinner, and it was curved so there was more X travel than if it was straight.....and so my results speak for themselves for me. It takes only seconds of time to use a 3D pen to plop around the base of the print onto the brim, and yet the adhesion bonus is HUGE. And, although the material does bond significantly with your print base, as long as you arent pressing it into the part, it is "isolated" enough to break off very cleanly ( I used my teeth but you can use pliers or whatnot).
If you have never had a lithophane knock over or detach, then you are the true champion here. For anyone who is like me, who would rather come back to a successful and clean print after 10+ hours, adding a bit of pen-extrusion (I was using PLA and I can't speak for anything else regarding lithophanes) seems to be almost fail-proof. I bet you I could have cranked the speed up even, because this thing wasn't going ANYwhere.
I'll make a separate post for the blacklight for backlighting. It's really crazy awesome, since UV lights don't "throw light" the way regular ones do, so you can use it in a darker environment without the blacklight illuminating anything else around it, which makes for a really cool visual. The light itself didn't do much for my litho (maybe if the filament was reactive to uv light, as some of my white filaments have proven to be), but when I placed a white paper towel in between the lamp and the litho, the picture came to life. I didn't have to have the white paper touching it or too close to it, but it also worked if I put the paper towel leaning against the litho. I would say this is a great way to do it, since the "light source" becomes the flat plane of the paper instead of the bulb, allowing it to be very evenly distributed against the back of the lithophane as you can have the paper the same dimensions as the litho, and the bulb doesn't have to be right against it and can be a VERY low power bulb (still works great). This allows you to put the entire thing inside a box, like a sideways cardboard box, blocking out most of the light from the room while leaving the lights on in said room, and yet this will still glow with an incredibly clean picture. It's really wild, and Im glad I messed with it for a while. I hadn't gotten it to work at all (like I stated, this filament doesn't glow at all from the UV light like most of my white pla, and so I was about to give up when I got close to a piece of white cloth and BAM my image appeared), and it was an accident that I realized this method. Maybe you guys can improve upon it and come up with some amazing visual detail. Another really awesome thing that happened was when I used it in the bathroom with the wall mirror- I put the litho at a slight angle above the bulb so some of the UV light directly shined onto the front of the lithophane, causing some shadows directly, while the rest of the light bounced off the mirror behind it and onto the papertowel on the back of the litho, which caused the expected result of the image displaying with great detail. By moving it around slightly, I was able to use the front-lit shadows to make a gorgeous and scary result of what looked like a 3 dimensional and realistic picture, and because the shadows move as you move it, it almost looked more like a physical hologram. I will take pictures and videos later, this is really beautiful. I am sure something like this has been done before, but I wouldn't know because I'm finishing a cup of coffee and about to play some Rocket League~!
When I was a child, I never would have dreamed that the technology and concept of 3D printing would ever exist in our world; the fact that it now does means that we only need to put our dreams into the form of gcode and choose our desired filament for it to become our reality.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
Sometimes, when reading these forums, I think I may be the only one in the whole universe who doesn't have trouble with getting prints to stick.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
to be fair, I am writing this specifically for lithophanes. I don't have issues with normal prints, but these are typically 2 or 3mm wide and 200mm tall, so it's kinda different than regular prints
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
Also you're definitely not the only person. Ever read horror stories about people who printed petg and such and removed pieces of their bed during the afterparty? 🤣 lol.
RE:
Are you reporting the printing lifting off the bed during the print or the printing pulling the bed off the sheet?
Your first post is hard to read and very long.
PETG, of certain brands, is often over adhesive and can over stick. This phenomenon is often seen more often as the end ages or is scarred up a little. I get past this with a little Windex on the bed.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
AnnieR, you aren't the only one. I don't have that trouble either. Then again I keep my sheet clean and preheat the printer to give the bed time to warm through so have an extremely consistent first layer distance.
There are sooooo many threads about first layers and prints coming off though. Its almost like people cant read. I think they get so panicked that the first instinct is to just post about their problem when if they would just read through some of the existing posts the answers are mainly all there.
I mean if all new forum users/prusa printer owners just read 3-4 posts we would have lots less traffic, Bed cleanliness using soap and hot water, Jeff's live z my way, loose grub screws on pulleys and 7x7 mesh. Those would just about cover it lol.
That's not aimed at the OP btw, more just a general observation.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
That is probably a good synopsis. The other issue is not reading but searching. They a single Prusa Forum Search and ignore the better choice which is Google.
AnnieR, you aren't the only one. I don't have that trouble either. Then again I keep my sheet clean and preheat the printer to give the bed time to warm through so have an extremely consistent first layer distance.
There are sooooo many threads about first layers and prints coming off though. Its almost like people cant read. I think they get so panicked that the first instinct is to just post about their problem when if they would just read through some of the existing posts the answers are mainly all there.
I mean if all new forum users/prusa printer owners just read 3-4 posts we would have lots less traffic, Bed cleanliness using soap and hot water, Jeff's live z my way, loose grub screws on pulleys and 7x7 mesh. Those would just about cover it lol.
That's not aimed at the OP btw, more just a general observation.
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
AnnieR, you aren't the only one. I don't have that trouble either. Then again I keep my sheet clean and preheat the printer to give the bed time to warm through so have an extremely consistent first layer distance.
There are sooooo many threads about first layers and prints coming off though. Its almost like people cant read. I think they get so panicked that the first instinct is to just post about their problem when if they would just read through some of the existing posts the answers are mainly all there.
I mean if all new forum users/prusa printer owners just read 3-4 posts we would have lots less traffic, Bed cleanliness using soap and hot water, Jeff's live z my way, loose grub screws on pulleys and 7x7 mesh. Those would just about cover it lol.
That's not aimed at the OP btw, more just a general observation.
Amen.
The Filament Whisperer
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I may be the only one in the whole universe who doesn't have trouble with getting prints to stick.
It can happen to anyone, I had two come off back in May 🙁
OK, I was tempting fate a bit printing 200+ part print-in-place mechanisms.
Cheerio,
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
I think the initial post is very specific, easy to follow, and although it's long it's very detailed and accurate and nowhere do I mention anything about petg. Not to be rude but it's apparent you only skimmed it and then read the unrelated responses and conversation between myself and anne
Are you reporting the printing lifting off the bed during the print or the printing pulling the bed off the sheet?
Your first post is hard to read and very long.
PETG, of certain brands, is often over adhesive and can over stick. This phenomenon is often seen more often as the end ages or is scarred up a little. I get past this with a little Windex on the bed.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
No worries, it wouldn't make any sense to be aimed at me as it's in no way related to my post. If you guys would actually learn to read posts before thinking you understand why you're here, you might add to the knowledge base instead of stating things everyone already knows. I have no trouble with first layers, and this post is....well I've already made it simple enough for anyone who wants to take the time to understand. Lithophanes. Tall. Thin. Can be difficult to print at speed. Have you guys ever made them before because it would appear you have either zero knowledge regarding lithophane printing or you honestly did not bother to read the post.
At any rate, I'm glad you guys are confident in your skills and seem to have no need of new information. May it serve you well going forward.
AnnieR, you aren't the only one. I don't have that trouble either. Then again I keep my sheet clean and preheat the printer to give the bed time to warm through so have an extremely consistent first layer distance.
There are sooooo many threads about first layers and prints coming off though. Its almost like people cant read. I think they get so panicked that the first instinct is to just post about their problem when if they would just read through some of the existing posts the answers are mainly all there.
I mean if all new forum users/prusa printer owners just read 3-4 posts we would have lots less traffic, Bed cleanliness using soap and hot water, Jeff's live z my way, loose grub screws on pulleys and 7x7 mesh. Those would just about cover it lol.
That's not aimed at the OP btw, more just a general observation.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
Couldn't have said it better myself. You have described your own posts in this very thread, and highlighted that this issue is more with experienced users than newcomers, who are probably more interested in learning and less interested in sounding knowledgeable...
With Christmas coming up, this is a huge timesaver for those people who are making their own decorations. Hanging Lithophane Ornaments with internal lights? 360 degree cylindrical Christmas tree lithos? Lots of possibilities, and even if you're able to print them fine (mine dont have issues when printing slow, but this issue is just a normal product of the physics if you're going faster) this method has allowed me to crank my speeds up beyond what I ever could before while keeping it high resolution. I won't bore you with more information, but right now I'm printing a second snowman, and last night I used the standard method and it took 6 hours. Right now, I have reduced the time down to 1 hour 20 minutes, and it's half done and working great. Wait, you already know how to do that, right? Right. Cheers.
That is probably a good synopsis. The other issue is not reading but searching. They a single Prusa Forum Search and ignore the better choice which is Google.
AnnieR, you aren't the only one. I don't have that trouble either. Then again I keep my sheet clean and preheat the printer to give the bed time to warm through so have an extremely consistent first layer distance.
There are sooooo many threads about first layers and prints coming off though. Its almost like people cant read. I think they get so panicked that the first instinct is to just post about their problem when if they would just read through some of the existing posts the answers are mainly all there.
I mean if all new forum users/prusa printer owners just read 3-4 posts we would have lots less traffic, Bed cleanliness using soap and hot water, Jeff's live z my way, loose grub screws on pulleys and 7x7 mesh. Those would just about cover it lol.
That's not aimed at the OP btw, more just a general observation.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
thats.....the furthest thing from a lithophane that could ever exist. Maybe I should have specified in my topic title....I just figured this CAN apply to any print to help people who have lost hope, and yet it's specifically intended to help people with lithophanes......
again, I assume people will actually read, but I will take the blame for not putting lithophane in the title. My apologies, but at least I didn't waste anyones time since clearly no one took the time to read the post.
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Well... lithophanes are about as big a waste of the technology as one could imagine - far better either to print a conventional transparency and 3D frame or to do an ink transfer. Why one would use a 3D printer to reproduce, poorly, a 2D image that can be reproduced with much greater fidelity by older, cheaper, readily available equipment is beyond comprehension.
Cheerio,
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
again, I assume people will actually read, but I will take the blame for not putting lithophane in the title. My apologies, but at least I didn't waste anyones time since clearly no one took the time to read the post.
Some people do read posts carefully because there often something to learn from each individual situation. While i am usually happy with the results of "as big a waste of the technology as one could imagine", your solution has given me ideas on how I may solve some other things I have been thinking about.
Any day that you learn something new is a good day! Today is a good day.
There is a bigger waste of the technology. I do a lot of single layer, multi object, multi colour prints on my MK3S. Essentially a 2D print on a 3D printer. What a waste when I could just print the design on my ink-jet printer.
Kenn
Quality is the Journey, not the Destination. My limited prints->
tl;dr - Use 3D Pen to tack down prints, use teeth to remove the supports
Boiling down the wall of texts leaves us with "use a 3D pen to tack down prints" (sounds like you've already got lifting at that point) and "use teeth to remove supports". I'd suggest getting better adhesion and first layers to start with, but whatever.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
LOL, joke right?
you've apparently never seen a correctly done litho. Thanks for the laugh my friend. I forgot that people still can find 'ink tranfer' equipment at estate sales.....
If I'm not mistaken, you seem to be implying that I should still be shaving my beard with sharp rocks, cause you know, old technology and rocks are readily available beyond comprehension. A properly printed lithophane is so much more detailed, with more quality, far superior in every way than even the best ink transfer.....I'm guessing you don't even own a 3d printer amirite?
XD cheers, from the moon.
Well... lithophanes are about as big a waste of the technology as one could imagine - far better either to print a conventional transparency and 3D frame or to do an ink transfer. Why one would use a 3D printer to reproduce, poorly, a 2D image that can be reproduced with much greater fidelity by older, cheaper, readily available equipment is beyond comprehension.
Cheerio,
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
lol, you guys honestly sound like you've never printed a lithophane before. I could have used anything to remove it but I didn't even feel like walking over to my drawer of tools and it was that simple. I'm not sure you're getting the point, but it sounds like you don't have any use for new information so carry on! Show us that benchy you've been working on!
Boiling down the wall of texts leaves us with "use a 3D pen to tack down prints" (sounds like you've already got lifting at that point) and "use teeth to remove supports". I'd suggest getting better adhesion and first layers to start with, but whatever.
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
Unless you have a parallel dimension you're keeping a secret, what on earth is a multi print with multiple object performed in a single layer? There's no such thing as a single layer lithophane first of all, so maybe you could share some of that "filament" your burnin in that "nozzle" ....ya? Multi color? Lithos are strictly one color, and it's essential to why and how they work..... and you'd never change midprint unless you want garbage results for both reasons of "needs to be white" and "oops i just ruined my print". Again, you seem to be talking about something entirely unrelated to lithophanes, and so I'm not sure why you're sharing this? LOL inkjet? Litho's are easily made for 3D images, not 2d like your ....did you say INK jet? Why not a laserjet? I mean if you're going to take almost the same amount of time to put it on a piece of paper....lol wait, this is also a complete troll post?! Oh bro, you had me there for a good minute. Nicely played!
Inb4 "just google lithophanes done by people who know what they are doing"
Nobody wants your inkjet picture no matter what it looks like, ever, I promise.
A well made lithophane is a work of art, desired by kings.
Are you sure your "3D printer" isn't like, your inkjet, or an ender or something? << insert facepalming crying emoji >>
Again, thanks for the laugh. Always puts a smile on my face.
again, I assume people will actually read, but I will take the blame for not putting lithophane in the title. My apologies, but at least I didn't waste anyones time since clearly no one took the time to read the post.
Some people do read posts carefully because there often something to learn from each individual situation. While i am usually happy with the results of "as big a waste of the technology as one could imagine", your solution has given me ideas on how I may solve some other things I have been thinking about.
Any day that you learn something new is a good day! Today is a good day.
There is a bigger waste of the technology. I do a lot of single layer, multi object, multi colour prints on my MK3S. Essentially a 2D print on a 3D printer. What a waste when I could just print the design on my ink-jet printer.
Kenn
RE: Save Your Print (lifting from bed mid-print)
lol, you guys honestly sound like you've never printed a lithophane before. I could have used anything to remove it but I didn't even feel like walking over to my drawer of tools and it was that simple. I'm not sure you're getting the point, but it sounds like you don't have any use for new information so carry on!
You have good information. It's just difficult to pull out the informative bits out of the wall of text (1,450+ words). I suggested before that you should write up your sequential printing process. This is feedback, not an attack (although the teeth surprised me). I did read your post, and your points seem to be:
- You did something interesting with UV backlighting that you'll write up later.
- You used a 3D pen to tack down a lifting print.
- You gnawed off stuff of a 3D print with your teeth.
Good stuff, at least the first two. I don't think those are limited to only lithophanes. I would still work on improving adhesion, but the pen can save a print with support breaking off, so it's a good tip and an excellent argument in favor of having a pen. It's great that you want to share information, but you don't want to lose the message in the trivia.
Show us that benchy you've been working on!
You can see what I've been working on in the footer links.