Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …  

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

What was your motivation to get the XL? Was it about the tool changer which is a vastly superior technology compared to AMS, MMU, Palette etc. Then I think you'll have a hard time finding an as approachable tool for a comparable price or lower, as the XL on the market. 

If you just want to have a good large format coreXY printer there are a lot of alternatives on the market, some are substantially cheaper. Most of them come with an inbuilt enclosure. In this case, maybe inform yourself about alternatives. 

PS: My own theory would be that Prusa wants a "soft launch" for the XL because they are not confident in its reliability and still need to patch it into that state in the coming months. 

PPS: There are already some big youtubers which have given some prominent showcase videos including some prints, but indeed no proper reviews. I saw Uncle Jessy presenting the machine, surprisingly positive in fact but not flawless but certainly without an in depth review (but he is probably not your first adress for very thorough in depth reviews anyway). 

RE:

Posted by: @thejiral

What was your motivation to get the XL? Was it about the tool changer which is a vastly superior technology compared to AMS, MMU, Palette etc. Then I think you'll have a hard time finding an as approachable tool for a comparable price or lower, as the XL on the market. 

If you just want to have a good large format coreXY printer there are a lot of alternatives on the market, some are substantially cheaper. Most of them come with an inbuilt enclosure. In this case, maybe inform yourself about alternatives. 

Honestly I am torn now between the XL and the X1+AMS. The main „selling points“ for the XL are still print size and seperate print heads for seperates materials (not just colors of the same material type but PLA+PETG simultaneously for example). The X1 is advertised to do that as well … but I am not sure if that is a good combination due to different print temperatures. 

But the X1 has an enclosure, less than half the price, assembled, currently faster with really nice looking software and filament storage (AMS) all in one ready to go package. 

PS: My own theory would be that Prusa wants a "soft launch" for the XL because they are not confident in its reliability and still need to patch it into that state in the coming months. 

My thoughts as well. But the point I am trying to make is that the way that they do it is sort of suboptimal. If they put this under „early access“ or „beta“ or something .. that would be much more understandable. But this way it raises huge concerns imo.

I also read from some people who received the units few months ago that already some parts changed compared to the manual assembly description. It just feels very rushed and my gut says they are quite concerned with Bambulab. Which is a good thing. For customers. Like coincidentally they just published the IS firmware for the mini few hours before the Bambulab Mini launch. There the marketing machine works. 

For the XL? Not so much …. confidence looks different.

PPS: There are already some big youtubers which have given some prominent showcase videos including some prints, but indeed no proper reviews. I saw Uncle Jessy presenting the machine, surprisingly positive in fact but not flawless but certainly without an in depth review (but he is probably not your first adress for very thorough in depth reviews anyway). 

Found one more from Robert Cowan "Prusa XL - Unboxing and Setup" 3 days ago. Which gave me some more hope. Prusa should just be more confident ...   

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

The AMS might be the best working filament changer system out there (not sure, I have never used it but people seem to suggest that it is working fairly well) but it still is a filament changer system. Therefore it is incredibly wasteful regarding material and it is slow in multicolour. Multimaterial is possible within limitations but suboptimal or outright terrible (depending on the combination). The issue is that if you pull different materials through the same nozzles you need insane amounts of flushing to get the last traces of the previous material out of the nozzle. This doesn't matter that much for different colours of PLA but if you mix soluble material with PLA or PETG this causes nasty things. 

The X1 can't do tool changing and if this feature is worth it for you, than it simply doesn't play the same game. The AMS is not a tool changer. It is not true "multi-material". If, like most however, you don't need a tool changer and either can do everything you need with a dual extruder (perfect for single colour with soluble support or dual-material or dual-colour) or an AMS like solution for the odd multi-colour print is sufficient for you, you don't need the XL. 

One important point is however the ecosystem. Personally, I don't trust Bambulab to keep their systems open forever. If I am not mistaken, their newest mini printer is already less open than the X1. They have all the hardware for getting all in nasty with DRM etc. One can hope that they just have it but won't use it. One can point out that even if they do, the X1 will stay probably open as it is. Maybe that is right. But I don't want to take such guesses. 

Probably I would rather get an FLSUN V400 and jailbreak it for completely free Klipper if I were to get one of the current en-vogue printers. But as printers are as much my hobby as printing, my choice is clear: Voron. But Vorons have the whole price spectrum in one ecosystem. You can go relatively "cheap" or pay as much as for a single toolhead XL. The latter is where I am at currently 😉

PS: Regarding fast printers. What they don't tell you with those is that you can print for example ABS fast and it might look perfectly nice too. However, if you want to get the best material performance out of your part (and don't need to satisfy commercial needs) you don't print fast, you print at moderate speeds at best or maybe even outright slow. You definitely need an enclosure as well however. So when I see all that highspeed marketing I can't really be bothered. 

RE:

Thanks for the explaination I already did a ton of research myself and went deep down into the rabbit hole of pros and cons for example of the X1 and some other competitors and that is actually the cool thing .. you can do that for those (released) products!

The main problem stays … regarding somewhat (or any!) professional XL reviews you pretty much have to wait it seems. For how long? Nobody knows .. 

And also „needing“ a tool changer is relative for me. I am in the market for a new printer (Day 1 XL preorder customer). The XL has some nice advertised but not yet proven features. But in the mean-time competition has come up and they are quite interesting too with actual proper reviews.

There was a time I was also thinking of buliding a custom Voron (2.4) myself. But I actually decided against this level of fiddling around. I want to spent more time on projects … than the printer itself being the project these days.

Again ... not trying to get a "which-printer-to-buy" advise ... just disappointed by the chosen "marketing strategy" for the XL.

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

If you are looking for multi-material (or multi-color), I'd definitely consider the MK3 / 4 with the MMU3. This is my setup (I have a custom enclosure), and I am finding that I am getting stable, reliable prints out of the MMU3.

Something to consider:

1) the AMS is (reportedly) slower than the MMU series on filament changes, which in a multi-material, single extruder print will make up the bulk of your print time

2) the AMS wastes-out more filament during changes, which becomes a factor in large multi-material prints or prints with a large number of filament changes

I thought long and hard about whether to switch out to the Bambu printer series, and ultimately stayed with the Prusa for the reasons above. I really, really wanted the 5 toolchanger XL, but decided to wait for the product to stabilize before taking the plunge.

Posted by: @pixelwave

But the X1 has an enclosure, less than half the price, assembled, currently faster with really nice looking software and filament storage (AMS) all in one ready to go package. 

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

ed by: @happykatz

I really, really wanted the 5 toolchanger XL, but decided to wait for the product to stabilize before taking the plunge.

Yes waiting it is. I do not have an issue waiting until the product is out .. my preorder is 2 years old. But now it is "out" but I feel I need to wait longer especially with this marketing / communication strategy. 

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

I'll admit that I did consider just getting the X1 but and if they come out with a multiextruder version I just might .

I am going to wait another year and let the XL get debugged.  I am waiting for the enclossure, bettery WIFI connectivity. Possibly a different screen or at the least moving it up high so it does not hang off my table and get busted and I can see the screen without crouching . It will also give us more time to see more honest reviews of the 5 head version

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

This is a great thread and share the same concerns as mentioned. I have a MK3S, and am very pleased with it. I like Prusa products and was very excited for the XL. I am very disapointed how the entire XL was and is still being handled. I am not going to hand over a high premuim price for a half finished product.  Just think of how many MK4s you can buy for the price for not even twice the build volume of the XL

• No official release
• No input shaping
• No enclosure
• Poor wifi and no Pi option
• No touch screen, poor screen location
• TPU loading issues
• No info vids and guides on the multi heads and soluable supports
• False transperancy post "pre-order" Delayed for reasons other than materials, like the MK4, ect.

RE: Prusa (XL) weird marketing and influencer behaviour …

I don't think there's anything wrong with the XL marketing strategy. They have many months of order backlogs to work through, so why waste money on more promotion?