Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
Hello all;
Kind of piggy backing off a redit post that was created to get some feedback on the upcoming high-temp hotend.
( https://www.reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/1rqp8hw/prusa_hight_temp_hotend_feedback/ )
(ALSO before anyone asks, yes I saw the community project here as well 🙂 )
So...
What materials would you use for a high temp nozzle for?
The current design is set for the CORE One and the Core L since they are both are already enclosed, but would there be interest for those people who have a MK4S? Since most of the high temp material require an enclosure, and also ambient temperature, would having the high temp hotend expanded to other printers be of use?
I will take the feedback here and submit it to the department working on the project
Shane (AKA FromPrusa)
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
More important to me than a HT hotend is an actively heated chamber. That aside I would love to be able to print PPA at a higher temp. As for the HT hotend on an unenclosed printer, can't think of a use case.
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
Good morning.
This is a topic that I am currently very interested in. My C1 is already running at more than 290 degrees, and I will be testing with other filaments (PPS, etc.). 320 degrees is already stable.
From my own experience, the MK4S would actually have a better chance of coping with the brittle material than the C1. The reason for this lies in the way the filament is wound onto the roll and how this bend is fed to the extruder.
Currently, printing with PPA-CF or PPS is not possible in the C1 without a minimum change to the idler. The MK4S has it easier – the filament can be fed straight from above and the bend of the brittle filament can follow the curve of the extruder.
It is more difficult on the C1. The bend in the filament is twisted 180 degrees and the risk of it breaking is inevitable. I had to find this out for myself and it has also been confirmed by other forum members. If there had been enough space, Prusa would have preferred to move the filament feed to the other side.
As for the printed parts on the MK4S, Prusa could offer this as a kit so that all PETG parts are replaced with PCCF.
Active heating for the MK4 enclosure will also be essential for objects that can be printed with HT printing. Small objects or prints that remain a few centimeters above the print bed are not interesting; any MK4S with HT conversion can handle them. But the further the extruder moves away from the print bed, the more the heated room air has to help.
The Buddy board on the MK4 should then also be moved outside (personal opinion) ... unless Prusa confirms that the hardware can withstand this.
Mods for Core One: Core One HT 450 degrees, Comfortable display , Very fast print start and Reducing noises
Mods for Prusa XL: Very fast print start
Tricky. There is a genuine use-case for limited high temp printing on even unenclosed printers; low profile parts requiring high temp polymers which are not tall enough to warp could be produced ... potentially very useful
BUT
The day after you release it someone is going to complain that his PEEK Adalinda failed and therefore both his Mk4 and all high temp nozzles are garbage.
I don't run a Mk4 but I can see it being useful for some - the limitations would have to be very clearly stated at point of sale but for those who pay attention and take care it could be a valuable addition.
Cheerio,
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
I would argue though, that anyone who really needs to print PEEK would already have a printer capable of printing PEEK and thus wouldn't complain. Anyway, engineering filaments don't belong on a bed-slinger and (in my opinion) they are marginal on a Core One without an active chamber.
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
@hyiger - you are correct: but there are those who have an occasional need that doesn't justify replacing a printer that is otherwise suitable for their needs. And there are also those who expect miracles for a pittance.
Cheerio,
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
C1L, PPA-CF, as jan.d.slay had mentioned a revised idler should be released.
HT without a nozzle, I already bought the ObXiDian® 500. Don't make me buy some included crappy nozzle to just get the heatsink and thermistor. Don't punish your customers.
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
@hyiger - you are correct: but there are those who have an occasional need that doesn't justify replacing a printer that is otherwise suitable for their needs. And there are also those who expect miracles for a pittance.
Cheerio,
I would argue that Bambu Labs may have single-handedly made engineering filaments more accessible to the masses. Certainly a lot more choices today than 5-6 years ago. Today an "average" CoreXY is a 250^3 volume, 65 degree chamber with a 350 hotend. No $800+ printer should be below these specs.
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
There are some very limited use cases for a higher temp for the Mk4, PETG-GF, where you can open bed print. Would need to be made very clear what the open bed can and can not do.
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
If Prusa really wants to release a kit (I'll call it that) for older printers, as mentioned in post one, it has to be very well calculated so that Prusa itself gets something out of it. Although anyone can print all the parts themselves in PCCF and buy all the hardware parts on the internet, a good, affordable complete kit would be attractive. However, today's technology is also a factor. AI machines and the internet have made some things possible. My HT conversion took 3 days and cost 30 euros.
Mods for Core One: Core One HT 450 degrees, Comfortable display , Very fast print start and Reducing noises
Mods for Prusa XL: Very fast print start
RE:
I agree with @hyiger 's suggestion that active chamber heat is broadly speaking more important than a very high nozzle temp. Even at work where we print expensive flame retardant PC/ABS filament, I'm running the chamber maxed at 65c and the nozzle is still below 300c. The first sub-$2.5k desktop printer that can make 80-100c actively heated chamber a reality will sell like hotcakes.
-J
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
The convection heating of the C1L underwhelming, it will get to 60, want to wait 40 min? I added my own chamber heater to make this warm up time reasonable. The time I get with the heater and the convection is what I expected out of the box.
RE:
I agree with @hyiger 's suggestion that active chamber heat is broadly speaking more important than a very high nozzle temp. Even at work where we print expensive flame retardant PC/ABS filament, I'm running the chamber maxed at 65c and the nozzle is still below 300c. The first sub-$2.5k desktop printer that can make 80-100c actively heated chamber a reality will sell like hotcakes.
-J
I would be one of the first in-line for one of those. But then the Talking Heads song "Burning down the house" keeps playing in my head. Just having an actively heated 55C chamber is good enough for me so I can lower the bed temps.
What will happen is some Kickstarter will introduce such a printer then Vision Miner or Stratasys etc will buy them out to keep it off the market.
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
Even if i very much like a HT hotend on my XL i don't know if this is feasible. Lets take first the fact that there are plastic parts within the XL printed with PETG. And even if we changed a few when we installed the so called enclosure still there are a lot left. Second is the matter of the electronics in every head. I don't know if these are tested and rated for increase temperatures in their proximity. Then there its the matter of the faux prusa enclosure. That thing is not proper. So if with HT comes the need for increased and controlled chamber heating then it definitely needs a kit with proper heat sensors placed inside the printer, better insulation, cooling solution for problems that will arise in various, until now , not cooled components and definitely a complete replacement of all the plastic parts i.e. motor mounts. In the best case we will get an upgrade kit for a toolhead with new plastic parts, that will have a hefty pricetag (and that admittedly ill buy) that will go away with some filaments that need a few degrees more and a bit of glue on the bed just to print rather small parts.
The frustrating part is that i can buy for around 150 usd a panda breath or for less a creality chamber heater and installed it on a faaarrrr cheaper 3d printer but on Prusas flagship (handled like a benchy) i'll open a new set of issues with all the above,
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
The first sub-$2.5k desktop printer that can make 80-100c actively heated chamber a reality will sell like hotcakes.
High chamber temperature seems significantly more difficult to achieve than a hotter hotend. With the CoreXY design, the whole toolhead as well as the XY motors and belts will be exposed to that temperature. So overheating of active components, as well as temperature compensation of the XY positioning mechanism including the belts, become a headache.
There's probably a reason why the HT90 uses a delta geometry, which keeps the drive motors outside of the heated chamber and avoids rubber belts in the drive. Now that consumer CoreXY printers have become a commodity available from many Chinese companies, maybe the next wave will be sub-$2000 delta printers?
RE: Prusa Hight Temp Hotend - Feedback
Now that consumer CoreXY printers have become a commodity available from many Chinese companies, maybe the next wave will be sub-$2000 delta printers?
Come to think of it, a CoreXY printer with additional measures to support operation at high chamber temperatures may be more likely. Motorized belt tensioners (with a quick calibration before every print, after the chamber is heated to the target temperature) and active air cooling for the XY and extruder motors should go a long way.