Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password  

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

Have you tried a printer check list? A list of things to do before printing. Step 1, Step 2, Step 3……. Try and make it as easy as possible.

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

The problem is that people tend to ignore such things, it's human nature. Especially when they think they already know how it works. Similarly it's also clearly instructed that they shouldn't change the printer-settings, and yet they do. We could decide to go authoritarian mode on the printer use, but that's not great either.

The most elegant way to do this is to have the printer guide the user through the process.

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

Or someone as proxy between users with their requests and the printing farm.

3D printers are not as easy to use as xero copiers.

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

That would be a nice solution, but for the salary of that person we could buy several Prusa XL 5 tool machines... every year...

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

The aim is to lower the need for supervisor interaction with the machines. The suggested UI change will go a long way in preventing mistakes by inexperienced users.

Prusa printers make quality prints, are robust, and have a great open source support and community. I would only lack Prusa machines on the user experience (UX) side. Therefore the machines are more geared towards the enthusiast and tinkerer, which excludes less experiences users for no good reason. As one of the students put it 'These machines are clearly not (general user) market ready'. Ouch.

I can compare it with the Formlabs printer we have. These machines validate the presence of the build plate, the correct tank and resin cartridge before starting the print. If something is incorrect, the machine clearly displays what needs to be done. Now I don't suggest Prusa printers should autodetect all those things, but some lessons could be used from the much better user experience.

(I meant to add this as an edit, but apparently there is a time-limit.)

I tend to agree with @eds_3d_odyssey - possibly set up a two tier access system so that only experienced users get access to an 'inner' lab but on all machines attach a checksheet holder - part of this is the sort of pre-flight check suggested - with tick boxes, and part is 'Who's job is it?' and 'How to contact if things go wrong' so that any user spotting spaghetti prouction can make a come-fix-it call, users will appreciate the latter and so are more likely to pay attention to the sheet.

I would also suggest offering 'Troubleshooting training' as a prerequisite for additional printing privileges.

Cheerio,

Cheerio,

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

Posted by: @diem

I tend to agree with @eds_3d_odyssey - possibly set up a two ...

I would also suggest offering 'Troubleshooting training' as a prerequisite for additional printing privileges.

While I appreciate the well meant suggestions of (re)organizing our lab, these suggestions are not helpful. We already checklists and similar approaches for the printer and basically all equipment, and while they work most users, they do not work in all cases. As said, it's human nature to overlook things. Having the printer guide the inexperienced user would be helpful.

A 3D printer like a Prusa shouldn't need to be locked away like a Krypton Fluorine gas powered laser does. The suggestion that we need a checklist, a two tiered system and whatnot only illustrates the huge missing part in the Prusa UX for the once-in-a-while user.

But you're expecting Markforged or Stratasys UX for the price of a hobby machine...

Presumably your students expect to have to learn the other stages of 3D fabrication, not just the relatively simple first stage of dreaming up and specifying a shape.  They need to learn how to orient a part for strength, to vector expected stresses in use, to match material with required characteristics, to minimise overhangs and bridges, where and how to allow tolerance, how much to allow for thermal shrinkage, where to put stress relief against warping, where chamfering and filleting will and will not work and many, many more and also when 3D printing is not the answer.

As you are teaching all this you must be able to fit in a little practical instruction, and, like your lasers, require the user to demonstrate a minimum level of competence before being let loose on the kit.

And, 'for the once-in-a-while user.' provide a manned service - not necessarily full time staff, a few competent students working for additional printing privileges should be enough.

If as a working university you cannot manage  ' the impossible task to instruct 100's users in all the details of 3D printing,' then instruction in most of your other fields must also be impossible tasks.  If you don't plan to do it you must do what happens in the wider world - provide a service, not just a resource.

Cheerio,

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

Diem, I simply observe a common problem, and make a relatively simple suggestion of how Prusa could address this in the UI to add to the UX.

It is quite something for you to pretend to understand how we use the machines, how we do that wrong and how your way is better without even knowing our facilities and use cases. We have a saying: 'the best sailors stand on the shoreline', providing advice on how the sailors at sea are doing it all wrong. Unfortunately, there is no point in me considering this advice you offer, it doesn't apply to our situation. The stresses, bevels, print orientations, overhangs, tolerances and whatnot are not the problem.

Please, if you want to be helpful and stay on topic: add to the UI change suggestion and admin passcode I made in the original post. That is much more helpful.

'the best sailors stand on the shoreline', providing advice on how the sailors at sea are doing it all wrong

So would you put a class of untrained students in mid ocean and leave them to manage an unfamiliar vessel for themselves?

Cheerio,

RE:

people can use it with a short introduction.

 

The problem is that people tend to ignore such things, it's human nature. Especially when they think they already know how it works.

Maybe your introduction training is too short?

You suggest to add extra UI settings to prompt user to check specific setting. There would be absolutely nothing that would just allow them to blindly click Next to skip this step.

Notice how many times people click next next next without thinking.

Also notice even cars allow you to drive with damaged tires, or other damaged parts, people see glowing red mark on the console and they still can ignore it. So what's the point? That's why you need better training.

I suggest contacting Prusa directly asking for help in that matter, forums are not a place to request such features.

RE:

Posted by: @_kaszpir_

Maybe your introduction training is too short?

You suggest to add extra UI settings to prompt user to check specific setting. There would be absolutely nothing that would just allow them to blindly click Next to skip this step.

Notice how many times people click next next next without thinking.

Also notice even cars allow you to drive with damaged tires, or other damaged parts, people see glowing red mark on the console and they still can ignore it. So what's the point? That's why you need better training.

I suggest contacting Prusa directly asking for help in that matter, forums are not a place to request such features.

Our training takes a small hour and goes over all safety precautions and basics of slicing and operation. Our goal is not to train them to be experienced 3D printer operators, but allow them to use the machine. The training is sufficient for a person to be able operate the Prusa and they know who to approach when in doubt.

Keep in mind that in our lab the students get trained on several machines, chemical training and protocols, do an entire project, literature research and reporting in 2 - 3 months. It's overwhelming for them. Giving them more instructions, or more checklists/logs would simply not solve the issue. We have those everywhere already. Requiring a dedicated operator for the Prusa would mean a defeat for the usability of Prusa machine and is simply too labor intensive to be viable.

While I get your point with the cars, we do maintain the machine and resolve any bigger issues: we resolve the damaged tires, flashing red lights and whatnot. And again: this is not the problem. The issue is that the machine provides little to nothing to help the user catch mistakes before printing.

Many of these issues could be solved by improving the UI/UX. These are the common pitfalls:

• The printer will, without warning let you print PETG on a smooth PEI plate, even though that is not recommended by Prusa. The printer knows the selected sheet setting and can see PETG in the filename and/or that info could be encoded in the G-code.
• The printer allows you to insert an SD card and print the file without being able to validate/check the sheet and material settings. As this information is hidden, this workflow promotes not checking these parameters.
• The printer will allow anyone to change all settings in the machine, without an admin passcode.

My suggestions are simple:

1. before starting a print, show an info card that shows the essential information of the print, and the machine settings, and asks for confirmation. Image for illustration:

Even if they choose to immediately confirm, the user still gets a last mental reminder to verify the machine setting.

2. a passcode to limit access to the settings of the machine to admins only is an absolute must.

Both of these suggestions can be optional and enabled/disabled in the settings.

Final thought:
I feel in the reactions here a lot of resistance to change the UX/UI, but to change the user instead, which unfortunately strikes me as gatekeeping. 3D printers have matured to the point that they have become useful tools that most people can use, with some guidance, which can be supplied by the machine. The UX/UI is becoming much more important. Prusa builds amazing machines, but the UX/UI lacks a lot. If they cannot adapt they will fall behind companies like Bambulabs and Anker that have understood that 3D printers are becoming consumers machines and are not just enthusiast/professional tinkering machines anymore. 

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

I realise I am asking the user to change their preferred workflow, however, 
This idea needs to be considered by the developers, 
the developers rarely visit here, 
Please raise this as a request on the Prusa Git hub pages. 
where the developers are most active

regards Joan

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

Posted by: @joantabb

I realise I am asking the user to change their preferred workflow, however, 
This idea needs to be considered by the developers, 
the developers rarely visit here, 
Please raise this as a request on the Prusa Git hub pages. 
where the developers are most active

regards Joan

Myeah, I found a similar request on github for an admin passcode. A user suggested 3D printing a cap for the controls so users can't access the printer knob anymore. The request was then closed. Utterly useless.

I was hoping to get a meaningful discussion going on the forum on these suggestions and potentially other good suggestions, which we could refer to the devs. Unfortunately I see there is no point. The 'if I can do it, the UX/UI is good enough for everyone' culture is strong here.

I observe the Prusa approach doesn't work for everyone, and that makes the user experience so much worse, for no good reason. Having PETG destroy your smooth PEI just once will push the general user away from Prusa. I hope that Prusa will adapt and survive the Bambulabs/Ankermake challenge as a major player, and not become a niche one just for enthusiasts.

Joan, feel free to close the topic if you foresee no further useful feedback from other forum users.

RE: Printer shared facilities: Sheet and material confirmation option, admin password

I would like the check on my system at home as I have made that mistake when changing filaments.  I do agree, adding it to the GCode is an option tied to the filament.