NEW E3D REVO hot end  

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

It's over priced, not capable of abrasive materials, and its waaay to easy to just replace a nozzle on an e3d hot end to waste money on one.

That's my opinion what currently, is the advantage?

Regards

Swiss_Cheese

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

It's over priced, not capable of abrasive materials, and its waaay to easy to just replace a nozzle on an e3d hot end to waste money on one.

That's my opinion what currently, is the advantage? 

Well, my answer is pretty easy 🙂  E3D has never been accused of being a bargain supplier, different nozzles than brass will come at some point, and in five years of printing, I don't know how many hotends I've killed.  I don't find changing nozzles easy at all 🙂

If the new model is at least Dion-resistant it'll be well worth the money... 🙂

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Hello Swiss_Cheese
(I love that nickname)

This is useful to have that kind of opinion because I know I'm a bit "geek" and I like to discover new products.
But... if the product is not useful... it might become useless 🙂

I know I never changed the stock 0.4mm nozzle on any of my printers in the last 3 years. Never.

So a "quick change" hotend would be useless for me.

RE:

I will order today a REVO Micro and will install it on a MINI+ that has the IFS BondTech extruder upgrade.
Then I'll make some comparison tests with a "Vanilla" MINI+ (totally unmodified printer) by printing the same objects, with the same parameters.

Just to see the differences.

I know I spend to much money on that 3Dprinter hobby... 🤐 

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

It's over priced, not capable of abrasive materials,...

With full set of nozzles, it is about 160€ (VAT included). Single nozzle set is about 100€ and that means one nozzle is about 20€. That is, hotend only (without nozzle) is about 80€. Compared to classic E3D V6 hotend (~65€), price difference is still "acceptable".
Ok, as long only non-abrasive filament is used, nozzle will last for very long time and so 20€/nozzle is... acceptable only for those, who switch nozzles frequently (or wish to do that more often).
As soon we talk about abrasive filaments, then REVO becomes very expensive -we should also expect, that nozzles sold separately won't be "only" 20€!

its waaay to easy to just replace a nozzle on an e3d hot end

-I disagree on that (from what I saw on videos). But then, everyone will decide depending on his skill.

what currently, is the advantage?

Speaking for me:
-way easier to change nozzle,
-no "fear" of leaking,
-no clogging,
-wires (heater & thermistor) are less exposed and so much less chances to damage them.

There's another thing that "worries" me about REVO Micro (for Mini): and that's that tiny hotend fan. To make enough airflow, it needs to spin much faster than 40mm fan on stock Mini. And we know about small fans.. they tend to whizz like a turbine.

To summarize... I see REVO as quite useful upgrade, but everyone will need to justify price for himself.

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

It's kind of hard to form an informed opinion on a product that is only in pre-order stage. As for advantages, BogdanH summarized them pretty well. I've seen nozzle swaps demonstrated on video--they are stupid simple with no tools and take seconds.

The added expense of the nozzle should take into account it's also the heatbreak. Not that much more expensive. The specialty types will certainly come out later.

For the fan, yeah that tiny one is probably noisy but it's not like you are locked into it. 

For myself, I already have one on pre-order for another project. I'll likely swap that one over to the Mini later after the Voron edition is released and shipping.

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Hello i pre order the full kit here you found specs from e3d : 

Fan5VPlease use the supplied regulator board. Running directly from 12V or 24V will cause failureHeater12V or 24V, 40W nominal power at ambientTemperatureTemperature sensor: Semitc 104NTFan current: 176mAFan noise: 25.0dB(A)

Wish the noise will be acceptable,i order it because no firmware modification  but still have some hardware changed and printing a new bracket.

For me i dislike changed nozzle and like the way you can changed it ! so cool. normally the flow will be much better too so it will increase a little bit my quality on TPU. 

No Leaks at all : love that too much.next Upgrade Octoprint with a Rasp 2w and misumi Bearing.

BR

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Keep in mind I'm only trying to make a point here, not argue about it.

The added expense of the nozzle should take into account it's also the heatbreak.

I don't have to replace my heat break ever, unless I want to on my current e3D hot end and the genuine e3D nozzles cost $7 US at the time of writing. (However I have many that I bought years ago for $5 US nozzles last a lot of hours)

But then, everyone will decide depending on his skill.

Nozzle Swaps, I currently change out the nozzles on my printers between 2 and 3 times a month (total changes between the 3 printers), to accommodate different material types and the need for larger or smaller nozzles(orifice). I've never had a leak (going on 5 years now with Prusa's) or a blob of death and it takes about 15 minutes to change + a quick test print after and in most cases the test print probably wasn't needed accept for my piece of mind.

My stock hot ends melt plastic plenty fast and produces great results, I guess I'm just not seeing the need to through more money at it. But it seems folks are willing to do so just to mod and say they have the newest thing, because I'm not seeing an advantage at this time to this mod, I don't feel I could call it an upgrade it's more of a down grade for more money in my eyes. I'm actually losing capabilities If I buy one and paying more for the loss. 🤔

But it does look pretty. 😉 once again, just my opinion.

Swiss_Cheese

RE:

@Swiss_Cheese : I really appreciate both the experience feedback and the way you express your opinion.

Indeed usually on forum, people are a bit "rude" or "too binary in their opinion".
I think everybody appreciates to get valuable opinion.

I don't change nozzle as often as you explained and I don't meet any issue with the MINI+ I own.
The only upgrade I made is the BondTech extruder.
But, again, I cannot compare as I installed it the same week I received the printer.
So... I cannot compare the BondTech performance/reliability with the stock Prusa extruder.

And I only print "basic" filaments: non-abrasive PLA or PETG using 0.4mm nozzle.

I was expecting to keep one MINI+ with no upgrade at all and "maybe upgrade" another one with the REVO Micro (+ the BondTech extruder I already installed).
In order to have one MINI+ "abrasive filament ready" (the "vanilla" one) and another one with... well... "modified" setup.
(please note I did not write "upgraded" 😏)

Again... thank you for sharing your feedback/experience!

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

I too only currently print PLA and PETG with a small amount of TPU. So for me, the Revo would be a bit of a waste. Looks like a nice bit of kit for those that would make use of it,

If I was printing abrasives regularly I think I would have a printer dedicated to it rather than swap to a Revo.

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

For me it's catch-22. The V6 design hotend means a non-trivia nozzle changing process. Thus I never change nozzle, even though it will be useful when I want to print small, detailed models. This doesn't mean I don't want to swap so the Revo will let me have that possibility, without the whole heating/cooling, tightening, etc. Also, Revo will remove the hotend PTFE tube and thus one less piece of things to go wrong.

The added benefit of smaller Revo hotend means, in theory, the part cooling will be improved. Marginally probably with stock cooling shroud. But the extra space means it will be potentially easier to design a better shroud (vs the original, tight space).

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

@alex-hung

in theory, the part cooling will be improved. Marginally probably with stock cooling shroud. But the extra space means it will be potentially easier to design a better shroud (vs the original, tight space).

If that proves to be true, that can be a worthy advantage.

I'll watch and see. Cooling on the e3D v6 currently leave something to be desired.

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

@alex-hung

in theory, the part cooling will be improved. Marginally probably with stock cooling shroud. But the extra space means it will be potentially easier to design a better shroud (vs the original, tight space).

If that proves to be true, that can be a worthy advantage.

I'll watch and see. Cooling on the e3D v6 currently leave something to be desired.

Currently working on it:

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

I want to mention some points which i remember from some youtube videos about the REVO:

• nozzle heating up / cooling down times are much shorter than with E3D V6
• safety is improved, because in case of a control failure the heater block will not melt (it is not made from Aluminium)
• melting capacity is slightly higher than the V6
• of course, E3D will offer hardened nozzles for the new hotend, too

One downside of the new heater is, that thermistor and heater are one unit. If the thermistor dies, you have to change the entire unit.

If you own only one printer, changing nozzles in 30 seconds is the main argument to buy this hotend.

If you have several printers, this argument becomes less important.
Because you can leave different printers permanently equipped with different nozzle sizes...

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

The heat up/cool down times being roughly half of a V6 is going to add up to a lot of extra time to print benchys. Anyway I have my mount printed for the mini (it was awkward to do since I don't currently have a .4mm nozzle but managed it on a .6mm with many supports) and am eagerly awaiting @lichtjaeger or any other optimised part cooling duct designs while counting down the days until my micro arrives.

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

I have to admit that I'm very tempted by the Revo Micro for my Mini+, but I can't say that I really have a need for it. New and shiny is always tempting though.

I'm going to force myself to be strong and wait for it to launch and see what people who have preordered it (looking at you @florent-duret) have to say about it and then decide if I'll cop one or not. 

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

This is really great discussion, and frankly, since I'm sure Prusa is one of E3Ds larger customers, I'm sure they've already been in discussions on the new hotends.  It would be nice to hear from them what their intentions are.  If this is simply the way that E3D is going, then I suppose it will only be a matter of time before we all use them.

To me, it's definitely a step in the right direction.  

It's absolutely my fault, but I don't think I'm alone, that I never particularly "learned" how to change nozzles on a v6.  I first worked with them when I modded my Monoprice Select Mini with one, then I thought I was in familiar territory when I got my first Prusa.  And more recently, an Ender 3.  I guess what I've been doing is tightening a nozzle without loosening from the heat break first.  

But it's hard for me to overstate what an experience that's been for me.  I've spent realistically probably high 100s of hours trying to figure out why my printers aren't printing well.  In fact, I bought a Prusa MK3S+ precisely so I could have a printer that "just works."

I don't underestimate my ability to break things, but it seems like the new method substantially reduces the problems associated with changing nozzles which I believe is pretty awesome and will help a lot of people 🙂  I've ordered mine already, looking forward to getting my MK2.5S back operational...   

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

@stefan-3

One downside of the new heater is, that thermistor and heater are one unit. If the thermistor dies, you have to change the entire unit.

Another is your buying a new heat break with every nozzle purchaser, like it or not.

@lichtjaeger

I must admit I'm excited to see if cooling will improve, But it will need to be significant in terms of offering capabilities formerly unachievable by an V6 or Mini to matter in this case.

@sp4rkr4t

The heat up/cool down times being roughly half of a V6 is going to add up to a lot of extra time to print benchys.

Not really, heating the bed to temp is where the time is.

These are just my thoughts, based on my experience, I'm all for developing new tech and I'm glad you all are willing to spend your money on it, we have to go in educated not just excited.

Best regards, can't wait to see what comes of this.

Swiss_Cheese

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

we have to go in educated not just excited. 

I couldn't write any better comment.

I'm an engineer in Switzerland and the way I work in my job has a direct influence on my personnal life, thus in my 3D printing hobby.
And I know one of my default is to be "over enthusiast" sometimes.

But I'm pragmatic.

Today I'm always scared when I have to change a nozzle on any of my printers (Prusa and Anycubic).
Why?
Because I always fail:

• Lack of precision (from me) when I insert the nozzle in the heater block leads to "glogs" or "leaks", mostly because I NEVER set correctly the space between the nozzle and the heatbreak. I have never been able to "reassemble" a nozzle at the correct position.
  This always lead to some leaks, because incorrect distance between nozzle and heatbreak created some spaces in the hotend chamber...
• I destroyed/damaged:
  • a heater thread when (hot)removing a nozzle leading to full replacement of the hotend package
  • the strain gauge on another printer
  • the termistor

Yet I'm cautious and careful but I still managed to fail.
(Not totally true because ONCE I managed to replace a 0.4 nozzle by a spare one. Once...)

Finally this leads me to never change nozzle (the way other people do): when I really want to change a nozzle, I purchase a full spare hotend just to have a spare part in case of (inevitable) failure from me.

Last month I purchased the copper heatbreak from levendign for the MINI+.
Guess what? I never installed it.

So... A solution that would allow the "dumb me" 🙄 to easily change a nozzle on the MINI would solve the issue I meet.
I have preordered the REVO Micro and will fit it in a "dedicated" MINI+. I should receive it in March.

Mostly and sincerely, I'm a bit curious to see how this new heater will perform in the MINI+.
Not excited. Curious.
Even if I'm sure I will not change REVO nozzles everyday as I mostly print in 0.4 or 0.6.

RE: NEW E3D REVO hot end

I have the same issue, the past couple of years my motor dexterity has fallen a lot due to bad health, I've changed nozzle a few times over the past year and I've fried the heater, thermistor and caused a clog, now I leave the .6mm nozzle on.

Once I have revo installed I can start experimenting more.