RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
It is somewhat ironic that a country that refuses to implement even the mildest gun controls should attempt to destroy a technology with huge constructive potential in case it adds a fraction of a percent to their out-of-control weapons issue instead of simply outlawing the worst examples.
Cheerio,
Shane if you decide to take down my post please also remove this part of Diems post.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
Ed, please keep politics out of this forum.
No politics just truth.
If what Diem said isn’t political then my response isn’t.
No, it's your "truth" not mine. It's politics and it doesn't belong here. I 100% disagree with your statement above but if I write a response based on what I really feel it will just inflame the conversation. Therefore, it doesn't belong. This is a 3D printing forum not a forum on the 2nd amendment or MAGA dog whistles.
If you would like to send me a PM telling me why I'm wrong I would like to hear how you really feel.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
Us and them, black and white, it’s the other guys that have it wrong, we’re the right ones.
The world we live in and peoples complete fucking ignorance to even mildly accept that people can hold differing opinions, that can also be as valid as the other side taking into account context and certain perspectives.
It’s funny that we were mentioning a YouTube video in another thread today which uses that bipartisan model wrt to 3d printing to farm views and engagement. This approach is no different. I wish people would grow up and realise it.
Agree remove politics from this forum and aim to have a civil discussion around the implications this could actually have globally for the 3d printing community and our freedom to use our tool as we please
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
I appreciate the conversation. I have received a few messages on the topic. I am concerned but refuse to panic. I think common sense will prevail.
I appreciate the topic as posted by Shane.
My question is: How is this concerns handled outside the US?
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
If you would like to send me a PM telling me why I'm wrong I would like to hear how you really feel.
Let's just say that my political leaning is on the opposite side of yours and any conversation on the matter will not be constructive so let's leave it at that.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
I appreciate the conversation. I have received a few messages on the topic. I am concerned but refuse to panic. I think common sense will prevail.
I appreciate the topic as posted by Shane.
My question is: How is this concerns handled outside the US?
Outside the US it’ll be a watch and wait I’d imagine. The impact won’t be on regulation in Europe as this just isn’t on the forefront of issues on the continent both as gun crime isn’t a thing really and we also have extensive controls. The additional gun parts needed to 3d print the most common 3d printed designs just aren’t as easily or readily available. Even that aspect is regulated.
The knock on impact will be on how the 3d printing companies pivot to implement needed controls to adhere to the US market. Being the biggest market in the western world movements companies make in response typically ripple to the final product outside the US also. I don’t see it as an immediate issue but if control becomes a standard affair it could become the norm outside.
second to that it could impact what is shared and posted on sites like printables as based on my understanding that sharing files that could be deemed “part of a gun” would be under scope. So it could impact the community that way
RE:
I must note that it’s already illegal to manufacture and distribute an unlicensed firearms under EU laws, regardless of how it’s made. There is a similar proposal around the distribution of blueprints which would encompass 3d files but from my understanding it’s still applied to the individuals sharing not the technology.
RE:
Actually the EU Commission has also proposed legislation to control 3D-printed firearms. They take a different approach which aims to ban the creation, circulation or possession of firearm designs, not to disable the printers. Whether one likes the goal or not, at least it seems like a technically more feasible approach.
It's the European Union, so I would expect things to move slowly.
Edit: Ah, @wdlandry beat me to it. Seems we interpret the current EU proposal in the same way.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
Shane if you decide to take down my post please also remove [...]
But you do notice the difference, right? You are the first, and thankfully so far the only one to drag this discussion squarely into bipartisan politics. And to add fuel to the fire with your "socialist" moniker. That's totally uncalled for.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
Yes, please avoid politics! What I want to know is how will the AI system tell the difference between the housing I make for a static discharge "gun" to meet CE compliance requirements, an automatic Ty-Rap "gun", a hand-held rotary tool and an actual gun part? They all look like a gun, have a grip and a trigger. There are all manner of internal firearm parts I could put in a tray of mechanical parts, and I doubt even knowledgeable people would be able to 100% sort them out. A lot of industrial parts look like gun parts but aren't. I suspect, depending on design, some gun parts don't look like gun parts. I don't think these schemes are remotely feasible, but remember that politicians are usually lawyers, not engineers. It's also surprising that people who want to make illegal firearms don't just go to Harbor Freight (in the US) and buy a small lathe and mill to make parts out of real actual metal.
RE:
I thought the same thing but it requires a lot more skill and it's not something you can setup in a bedroom. Subtractive CAD/CAM is a lot harder to master. When I was in metal shop class in high school, a classmate hand machined gun parts that were usable. Took him the entire quarter though.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
Is that just projectile firing “guns” or is also things that resemble a gun (toy)? How about a compound bow or sling shot?
I have a cross bow and sling shot that would devastate a human or animal. Not being cute or argumentative. I am curious. I have not lived in the EU since 2003.
I own a rather large collection of guns. Most of them are historical to include an 1858 Belgian rifled musket. Most of them I would never fire.
I must note that it’s already illegal to manufacture and distribute an unlicensed firearms under EU laws, regardless of how it’s made. There is a similar proposal around the distribution of blueprints which would encompass 3d files but from my understanding it’s still applied to the individuals sharing not the technology.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
I doubt the lathe at Harbor Freight could make a quality firearm. I own one and use it only for wood parts. Too low quality for most metals.
Yes, please avoid politics! What I want to know is how will the AI system tell the difference between the housing I make for a static discharge "gun" to meet CE compliance requirements, an automatic Ty-Rap "gun", a hand-held rotary tool and an actual gun part? They all look like a gun, have a grip and a trigger. There are all manner of internal firearm parts I could put in a tray of mechanical parts, and I doubt even knowledgeable people would be able to 100% sort them out. A lot of industrial parts look like gun parts but aren't. I suspect, depending on design, some gun parts don't look like gun parts. I don't think these schemes are remotely feasible, but remember that politicians are usually lawyers, not engineers. It's also surprising that people who want to make illegal firearms don't just go to Harbor Freight (in the US) and buy a small lathe and mill to make parts out of real actual metal.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE:
Is that just projectile firing “guns” or is also things that resemble a gun (toy)? How about a compound bow or sling shot?
I have a cross bow and sling shot that would devastate a human or animal. Not being cute or argumentative. I am curious. I have not lived in the EU since 2003.
I own a rather large collection of guns. Most of them are historical to include an 1858 Belgian rifled musket. Most of them I would never fire.
I must note that it’s already illegal to manufacture and distribute an unlicensed firearms under EU laws, regardless of how it’s made. There is a similar proposal around the distribution of blueprints which would encompass 3d files but from my understanding it’s still applied to the individuals sharing not the technology.
Curiosity is healthy. I won’t pretend to be a subject matter expert on EU regulations… because let’s face it there’s a lot and they tend to be very detailed and not necessarily run through at a whim. It can take years in most instances. And wrt to firearms the regulation changes from country to country within the EU. There will be over arching laws but then each country may apply further controls.
So if you live in a country where a crossbow is regulated then yes it would be considered a firearm. Which is the case in Ireland where I am from, I’d need a license to own a crossbow. However I could go to my local hunting shop (fairly rare here) and pick up a simple sling of compound bow no problem. I just can’t legally hunt with it. I own a rifle, which takes effort to get a liecnse for, I need a gun case that is bolted to a physical fix concrete structure with dual lock. And it gets inspected every few years when my license goes up for renewal… be easier to print one 🤣
Ireland likely has some more of the more restrictive laws… mainly due to our more recent history. For instance even air rifles and handguns need licenses however my understanding is you do not in Central Europe.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
I agree we should keep politics out of this forum but this thread creates an interesting problem. 3d printer laws are political laws written by people who are against the 2 amendment. So how do you talk about political laws written by one side without getting political??
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
If you would like to send me a PM telling me why I'm wrong I would like to hear how you really feel.
Let's just say that my political leaning is on the opposite side of yours and any conversation on the matter will not be constructive so let's leave it at that.
I have a feeling we probably agree more than you think we do.
RE: Current "stance" on several proposed several US states laws in regards to 3D Printing.
Shane if you decide to take down my post please also remove [...]
But you do notice the difference, right? You are the first, and thankfully so far the only one to drag this discussion squarely into bipartisan politics. And to add fuel to the fire with your "socialist" moniker. That's totally uncalled for.
I think you meant partisan politics? Bipartisan would be both sides. Trust me I do go after both sides, but only one side is going after 3d printers right now and this is a 3d printer forum. We can talk about what I think about the tariffs in a different thread.
I probably shouldn’t have used the word Socialists but if they call themselves Socialist and they act like Socialist why can’t I call them Socialists??
If what Diem said isn’t political then my response isn’t.
I don't see how it's political, surely all reasonable political parties understand the need to protect all their citizens from violence?
Can you give us some examples of “mildest gun controls” you think the US should implement?
Start with something simple like no magazines, single shot load per barrel.
I thought the same thing but it requires a lot more skill and it's not something you can setup in a bedroom.
You don't even need a lathe for a crude firearm, in Aden - Yemen in the 1960's terrorist guns of a sort were made from plumbing parts.
I probably shouldn’t have used the word Socialists but if they call themselves Socialist and they act like Socialist why can’t I call them Socialists??
Probably because the US doesn't really have any socialists, not organised ones - it has a centre-right party and an extreme far right party ...
3d printer laws are political laws written by people who are against the 2 amendment.
Not really, they are written by people reacting to scaremongering and who don't understand science or technology; what have they amended?
The real issue is the attempt to make a (bad) local law globally enforceable
sharing files that could be deemed “part of a gun” would be under scope. So it could impact the community that way
There are in any case a ridiculous number of weapon-related parts on printables, I doubt many are viable but it would do little harm to remove them ....
However
Reductio ad absurdum: Screws are used to hold gun parts together, therefore making anything with a thread is now illegal.
Cheerio,