A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)  

RE:

No apologies necessary.

I guess what I would like to see is a series of test models that vary in filament changes and sizes printed on both printers, then an extrapolation and graph of the results.  It would be interesting to see if for example the XL was only 25% faster for models of 100cm cubed with 50 or less color changes and 150% faster if there were 100+ filament changes.  Though I print a few models in color, I usually use filament changes primarily for support interface materials. I really do like the convenience of the AMS so I can just print in different solid colors without having to manually load and reload filament.   I am expecting new printers from Bambu and XL in the coming year and I am really enjoying how this technology is evolving.

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

I do disagree with the comparison. Bambu was not launched at 100% complete.  It was closer to 60.  Now it’s about 90% with a lot of quiet updates to the components and firmware. Bambu at its current state is failing to meet the demands of those wanting advanced features. Even changing the z offset required a lot of steps. Poop eject doesn’t work so great at stock when I switched from pla.  The A1 combo still has no pin to hold in the filament rolls in place.  They are leaving these issues to the diy community to fix. So I’m sorry but I can’t understand how that is 100% even today. OP definitely wasn’t following them at their kickstarter launch. Don’t even get me started on how often their servers go down.  Restarting the app for failed to connect as well constantly claiming I’m running more than 2 remote views.  They haven’t even acknowledged that last bug.  Again, diy fixes.  Add in your own camera and switch your slicer.

As far as speed. It isn’t that fast. Granted I’m still building my xl. I’m not sure how the two will complete on speed. My guess is for my needs the xl will be faster. I started a benchy using their stock settings. It did complete. But this was not going to win any rewards on print quality. I was able to tweak the settings to get a better benchy in less time. But not as fast as my other printers and the quality wasn’t there. But that isn’t necessary a fair comparison. Those printers cost me a lot more and took a lot more work to put together. A replacement complete hotend is 35. My other printers I’m looking at 100+ for just the hotend.  

I have nothing against BBL. My only hope is that they use their patents to protect themselves and not to go after others. My only argument here is why do people continue to ignore their faults. They have plenty. But for the price it’s still a great printer especially if you’re willing to fix a few of their larger issues and you keep your expectations realistic. 

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

I don't think any commercially released 3D printer is a turn key appliance, yet.  They all have their quirks, idiosyncrasies and bugs.  I have seen a lot of criticisisms for Bambu's problems (which there are many) but I think most people take these issues in stride because of  Bambu's agressive pricing.  

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

Multi-material user here. The MK4+MMU3 is basically the turnkey multi-material printer I've been waiting for...  the filament color changes are fast and reliable even with stringy, wet PETG.

I did think long and hard about switching to Bambu in my MMU2 days, but I didn't because at the time:

* the A1 took longer to load / unload than the MK3S+ / MMU2 combo

* poop-chute method used more filament on filament change (kind of a non-starter with detail color work)

* i wanted a 100% offline printer (i have since switched to self-hosted Octoprint)

* open source platform and easily available customer support from Prusa (chat is hit or miss, but [email protected] is pretty solid)

So, even with the MMU2 issues it was worth it to put in the time and effort. Since the MMU3 / MK4 upgrade, though, it's pretty much a no-brainer for me, especially with the speed on multi-material prints, and I'm glad I stuck with the Prusa platform.

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

Thats really great about your experience with the MK4 and the MMU. I have the MK3S+ and it's a great printer and I assume the MK4 is even better. Though I have read many, many horror stories on all the versions of the MMUs, the MMU3 definitly appears to be much better and if you know how to adjust and calibrate it may work well for you. Since I don't own one or have ever used one I can't speak from experience. I am not sure what you mean that the A1 takes longer to load.  All the Bambu printers upon print completion unload the filament from the hotend allowing for a quick reload from any spool at the start of the next print job. The method used by the Prusa MMU to swap filament is definitly more efficient and less wasteful than the Bambu AMSs.  I only do a few color prints a month so for me the savings in cost for the Bambu, plus the added Bambu features was really the deciding factors in making my decision.

A few clarifications. Bambu printers can be run 100% offline.  In the beginning I was very concerned about downtime issues running print jobs through Bambu's cloud.  Second I was very concerned about privacy issues running my Bambu print jobs through their cloud. I originally setup my Bambu printers to run in local mode only, which was fine.  But once I tried Bambu Studio with the cloud services enabled it was just to good for me to go back.  With Bambu Handy running on my smart phone and I can monitor, modify and cancel print jobs remotely from anywhere I have internet access. You can do all of this with Prusa and Octoprint but you have to jump through hoops to get there installing and configuring plugins buying your own camera and adding to your raspberry pi (at least on the MK3x platform). 

I run my MK3S+ with Octoprint on a RPi-4B and I have been using Octoprint for close to three years now and it's great. The open source architecture of Octoprint and the library of useful plugins is amazing.  So for me switching from Octoprint to Bambu Studio did require a change in thought process but now that I made the switch I don't think I could go back. Bambu Studio provides a powerful workflow and I find the interface for the slicer and printer management very intuitive. Lastly I think the point about OpenSource is really, really over rated. I don't own an open source car or an open source dishwasher and I wouldn't want to fly on an open source airplane. I really wanted see an MK3S+ 32 bit controller board upgrade, I don't need the new stepper motors, the new hotend or the new color display. But even though it's 'open source' that board is still not available.

Don't get me wrong there are plenty of things that are poorly implemented and buggy in Bambu Lab's Studio and their printers, but overall I think they have some major advantages over Prusa.  I would love to see Prusa compete and become a real contender, but that may mean Prusa overhauling their entire management team and getting some big venture money behind them.

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

The Ultimaker S5 comes close.

Of course, the list price of that is significantly greater than the common Prusa and Bambu models.

I picked one up second hand from firm that had a 'cash flow challenge' in the height of the pandemic.  It was essentially RTFM, plug, and play.

It printed the calibration cube and Boaty McBoatface with absolutely no futzing around.

The print heads do occasionally clog and require some TLC to get them back right, plus I did have one head fan fail, but for the most part it's been foolproof.

I have only seen one 3d printer which is truly approaches 'You push the button, it does the rest', and that is the (now retired) U-Print which was at our local makerspace.  That one uses proprietary filament and a single-use build plate.  It's also quite a bit more expensive than Prusa/Bambu or Ultimaker.

Posted by: @paul-hodara

I don't think any commercially released 3D printer is a turn key appliance, yet.  

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

I really wanted see an MK3S+ 32 bit controller board upgrade, I don't need the new stepper motors, the new hotend or the new color display. But even though it's 'open source' that board is still not available.

Search for xBuddy replacement board on the shop.

RE:

Posted by: @happykatz

Multi-material user here. The MK4+MMU3 is basically the turnkey multi-material printer I've been waiting for...  the filament color changes are fast and reliable even with stringy, wet PETG.

I did think long and hard about switching to Bambu in my MMU2 days, but I didn't because at the time:

* the A1 took longer to load / unload than the MK3S+ / MMU2 combo

* poop-chute method used more filament on filament change (kind of a non-starter with detail color work)

* i wanted a 100% offline printer (i have since switched to self-hosted Octoprint)

* open source platform and easily available customer support from Prusa (chat is hit or miss, but [email protected] is pretty solid)

So, even with the MMU2 issues it was worth it to put in the time and effort. Since the MMU3 / MK4 upgrade, though, it's pretty much a no-brainer for me, especially with the speed on multi-material prints, and I'm glad I stuck with the Prusa platform.

 

 

I think I’m going to look into bypassing Bambus server as well.  I thought I saw a guide for that. Their server is a hot mess and they haven’t shown any interest at all in fixing it. 

I do wish Prusa applied for more patents but that probably cost them too much. Especially if they went full use on their patients. With 3d printing becoming so popular I’m worried they will be blocked out by patent trolls. Or having to pay a lot in royalties and being forced to pass on the extra cost to us. 

RE:

I originally ran in local mode but now I use their cloud services.  It's good to know I can switch back to local mode if there is a problem.  I think their cloud services are better than they used to be.  I still on occasion notice a delay when I send a job to the printer through the cloud, instead of 5-10 seconds it could be 60 seconds.  Not perfect but usable.

Yes I agree. Unfortunately their philosophy to keep their design open source may be ultimately reducing their market share  I see Prusa knockoffs 1/3 of the price on Ali Express and Temu, most customers don't realize when they buy from Prusa they are paying for quality and support.  Prusa's documentation such as their hard printed manuals are probably the best I have seen in the tech industry. Their on-line support reachable 24hrs a day costs a lot to maintain. Prusa did a lot for this industry and I hope they can figure out how to stay viable but without good corporate management and deep venture pockets  its hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

I would also need the firmware to support the existing monochrome screen with the 32 bit board and the cable adapters for the new board or at least the wiring diagrams.

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

Posted by: @paul-hodara

Yes I agree. Unfortunately their philosophy to keep their design open source may be ultimately reducing their market share  I see Prusa knockoffs 1/3 of the price on Ali Express and Temu, most customers don't realize when they buy from Prusa they are paying for quality and support.  Prusa's documentation such as their hard printed manuals are probably the best I have seen in the tech industry. Their on-line support reachable 24hrs a day costs a lot to maintain. Prusa did a lot for this industry and I hope they can figure out how to stay viable but without good corporate management and deep venture pockets  it’s hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. 

I doubt the knock offs are making a meaningful dent in Prusa’s bottom line.  That is a very small part of the market.  I have 3 but would never say they are worthy of being called a Prusa.  Two of them I receives as gifts.  All Three are not MK4s or Minis with Prusa made  upgrades.    

RE:

I am still having daily issues with their server. Needing to restart the app.  Over 2 instances of remote view. I only have it installed on 2 machines. It isn’t even possible for me to have over 2. Maybe it’s Mac related. They use Microsoft to auto fix print issues. Told me there was an issue with my model and to use a windows machine to fix it. This is what we signed up for with the lower price.  Pure laziness on their part. 

On a related note. When doing speed test what are the factors? Is it stock settings and default slicer? What about material? 

My v2.4 350 is slow with single small objects.  Add in multiple and it’s fast again.   But I have a buddy with nearly the same hardware.  Only real difference was his settings and he was achieve a much greater speed with a cleaner finish. I’m just not sure how we can determine how fast a printer goes when so much of it is depended on the end user and their supported slicer options to tune their prints.  My voron is absolutely terrible with pla. I rarely use pla so it’s fine. Just not enough cooling for the higher flow nozzles even with the doors open. 

That being said the xl toolhead is heavy. It’s surprising that it can match any of the latest printers with no tool change.  Obliviously this all changes with 100s of tool changes.  

RE: A strategic view of Bambu & Prusa (including benchmarks of all flagship models)

Sorry for the typos. My edits did not save. On mobile. I really did try to fix it.