Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19  

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Spam. Interesting spam but spam. Reported.

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Definition of spam from internet:

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

I was in two minds with this post when id came up for authorisation, but decided to let it run, on this occasion. 

regards Joan

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Posted by: @michael-kendall

Definition of spam from internet:

1.

irrelevant or unsolicited messages sent over the Internet, typically to a large number of users, for the purposes of advertising, phishing, spreading malware, etc.

  This subject in the forum is for COVID 19.  The potential for propylene glycol to be put to use in some way by the maker community (including use of a 3D printer) is real and why I put references.

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

 

It would be helpful if you'd make a note to that effect. I'm not trying to be critical, but putting a bunch of "relevant" text along with a link to a fishy external web site (naturallycurly.com doesn't sound like an authoritative source for health info) is the pattern used for clickbait, phishing and search engine SEO manipulation spam. If you're a live user posting, thanks for your effort. It just helps if you relate it to our discussion in the post to avoid any confusion. It should be pointed out that neither the words "COVID" nor "VIRUS" appear anywhere in the linked page. 

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Propylene Glycol is what I add to my DIY hand sanitizer, and makes up the majority of liquid used in vape pens.  I was 100% sure this was one of the crazy spam posts promoting vaping to clean and sanitize.  What exactly is this promoting?  Wiping surfaces with PG?  I'm confused.

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hi Bob and Miss Joan,

  Understand all and noted.  I'm doing my best 🙂 I feel so very strong this old tech could be huge in two areas.  

1)  critical care wards most especially the ones like what are happening in the Philippines as an example.  There was a presentation that 1 out of ever 6 new cases is a health care worker.  There are factors that need immediate attention and length of exposure resulting in higher viral load is definitely one of them.  Any way to reduce below viral load is critical to life.

2)  At some point the economies will need to be opened up.  Makers might be able to make a huge difference there as well.  Face shields beyond just health care workers will be critical as will hygiene many are not used to.  But we need some silent soldiers fighting on our side.  Air and surface sanitation (Propylene glycol as one of those silent soldiers), herd immunity, interim medicines. and most importantly vaccine will all make a difference.  

  It is hard to get these University teams to answer a phone call much less an email.  I offered one lab to pay costs up front on a different idea but no response (want to commercialize it?).  People are just overloaded and it is desperate times with COVID 19.  This is 1940's tech that slowly faded away into the 60's then never even heard of again but there are old studies that show it actually works incredibly well and better than UV amazingly (which is tech going to the 1800's).  Maybe makers will figure it out with the massive collective brains and work.........

  thanks for keeping the post.  I believe it is important.

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hello group,  I see the post about it for wiping surfaces and DIY hand sanitizer (cool/great idea :).  From studying I think this might already be in use for sanitizing hard surfaces but most talk about bleach solutions.  Post is about sanitizing the air.  Surely as it eventually makes it to the ground it will be sanitizing those surfaces as well.  Most definitely not a post about vaping.  I think that is a source of study on PG because it is a stabilizer but beyond that becomes a source for studying because it is of high interest to the world (if it is safe or not).  A 3d printed device that would work to introduce a PG/water into the air is what I'm thinking about.  I'm going to keep researching but after 2 days felt there was enough to get others who are likely smarter than me involved if they find interest in a project:)  Kind regards, Mike Kendall

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hello again,

  Here is one way to look at it.  If asked if I would prefer some aerosol with COVID 19 to make it past my mask or some aerosol with PG make it past my mask the obvious answer for me would be the PG is not going to kill me much less even cause any kind of damage.  With the incredible veracity COVID 19 can persist under certain conditions there may be real specific applications where makers can get involved with this as a potential project.   Re addressing the old tech is a good start in this application.

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hello group,

  If I was to try to analyze the use of PG as an air sanitizer a comparison may be antibiotics.  Before them phage therapy was huge.  After it was largely forgotten in the Western world but persisted in Republic of Georgia first because the cost and availability of the Western medicines.  As it went a full circle the phage therapy gained huge interest again as resistant strains emerged with the antibiotics.  

  The timing may be right in that with quick deployment of vaccines the PG humidification/vaporization fell to the side along with the antibiotics the same.  The study on first post actually looked into a bacteria and a virus which in the age of the 50's wonder drugs would have been taken care of by antibiotics and influenza vaccines.

  With a novel virus the tables are over turned hence the reason why  I have been studying old tech with my time.  From what I can gather the PG was highly effective and people even speculate on forums it was used in ducting systems of hospitals but no positive information available.  Even some linked pages have dis appeared in the government EPA side which I had to recover with the wayback machine.  The much older studies I found in medical publications that had been archived on the internet.  

  Nothing much new because the N95 mask material is the new influenza vaccine/antibiotic wonder solution IMHO......until everyone needs them and there is not enough to go around.  Plus they just plain aren't very green so day to day use is usually cloth face masks for general public as they are so easy to dis infect and re use.  

  It is interesting to study how Japan was able to avoid the arrow of the COVID 19 largely in meg cities like Tokyo.  Yes, they recently instituted an emergency but the millions compared to the number of cases and the timeline are very revealing to the culture (I've lived there twice so can attest to how it is).  

  The current pandemic has similarities to the small pox outbreaks of older times.  

  Again, this is old tech in the thread and it surely deserves some very smart and most especially competent people with common sense to be aware of it.  If makers can make a difference in yet one more area it would make me proud to know how communities once again stood up to the challenge(s).

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Another study yet again from 1942 same as the first study referenced:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5286581/pdf/edinbmedj75046-0036.pdf

Lots of details no the results (all positive) and lab animals exposed for months to it.  

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hello group, 

The obvious is that PG cannot be applied everywhere as a do-all solution (except in tandem with soap as a hand sanitizer).

Besides a culture of sanitation now being discussed in the news and looking at where it was successful (Japan) there is lots of discussion using the term "hot spots".  

 In reality the way they are using that term is in a macro application of cities.  What should be studied is a micro application of the term.  Just like when modeling a 3d file it will fail if it is not "water tight" when they open the economy or when there is care provided by front liner medical workers the "3d model" must be water tight (sorry my intro to 3d printers was Sketchup ver 8 with ruby plug-ins and what a PITA that was for anyone that was not a maestro in orchestrating that program to work properly. Proper application of solutions to "plug" the holes in the model subsequently making it water tight are essential to keep major waves starting up again (leaks in the model).  The PG solutions could be implemented to plug these holes in some applications along with other solutions (social hygiene customs being applied through peer pressure and law enforcement). 

  So where are the micro hot spots?  This would be partly revealed by what is planned to be opened up in phases in Austria.  Sitting down in restaurants and sleeping in hotels are likely to be later in the game.  Small businesses are being looked at with hopes to keep an economic collapse from occurring.  Here is a list of micro hotspots that will keep from having a "water tight" model from my observation(s). 

1) Lines of people are an obvious problem.  In the Philippines they are limiting the number of people inside a food store.  What results is a long line of people outside violating social distancing while waiting to go inside.  While waiting in line for 20 minutes (or longer) someone could be asymptomatic and even worse over the 20 minutes cough or sneeze a few times behind me in line.  Then a bio aerosol "glob" is released in my direction behind my face shield with millions of virus on a single "glob" of short range bio projectile?  Best I could do is to take an old eco bag and sew it into my flexible vinyl liner that is hung from a straw hat in 360 degrees.  Straw hats are common in my location so anyone practically could do this.  I'm seeing "fashionable" face shields that look nice for pretty young women to wear being advertised on the internet.  This is a good sign as hopefully it is a sign of a culture of hygiene the world is hopefully adopting to adapt to the new reality we are faced with.

2) Places of payment are another problem.  There is actually a broad array of places where this may be true such as where one takes off their shoes before entering a house.  In Japan there are always neat racks for this and then one enters a house.  It is an offensive action to not properly perform this.  In the Philippines it is different.  When walking into a door there will be a circle of sandals one has to step over to get inside.  Almost something to be proud of showing how many people are in your house and that you are well liked as a result or you have a big/happy family.

3) Subways are another obvious as found in New York.  Saw on the news they had reduced schedule so even though there was less people traveling there were still times when they were crowded.  Inside temperatures and metal all over the place all bad. Restaurants when opened can also be a serious micro hot spot as also would be a hotel room improperly sanitized with COVID19 (and likely drug resistant bed bugs that only respond to steam or vacuum combs). 

  So what are the potential applications?  What about a foot sprayer that allows one to spray the bottom/sole of the shoe before entering an establishment?  A "caution wet" sign might not work so trading a puddle of water to slip on and break one's hip for clean shoe soles is not good.  Maybe a foot brush next to the sprayer? 

  Airborne humidifier/PG in micro hot spots.  Wearers of masks would hopefully reduce the amount of aerosols inhaled as would a fashionable 360 coverage (face shield with breathable rear section like the sewn in eco bag resembling a bunny suit in kind of). 

  A portable sprayer to disinfect a hotel room's surfaces?  Maybe attached to the wand of a vacuum like a vacuum comb for superbugs like the resistant bed bugs?

Just some thoughts on how the PG applications may be applied to a maker community.  Hoping some can come up with better ideas than mine on the subject 🙂  

Kind regards,

Mike   

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hello group,  Another "old tech" medical study below link.   

https://academic.oup.com/aje/article-abstract/55/2/203/92531

  According to Wikipedia air purifiers take considerable time to sanitize a room but a air sanitizer left on can do this a simultaneous action when left on due to the distribution in the room for a cough or sneeze.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_sanitizer

  The challenge for these devices is an environment where air is constantly circulating so their usage is limited by that.

Kind regards,

Mike

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Hello group,

  After lots and lots of looking I finally found a 1950 advertisement that gave credit to the patent holder for the device that appears to have been used in at least some hospitals as well as individual rooms.  From there was able to find the rest which is written below.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US2523373A/en This is the patent from the "Research Corporation" for the larger version intended to cover dormitories, auditoriums, and hospitals. The smaller version is attached as a .pdf which was for rooms and made by Hankscraft for a couple years (until the wonder drugs of influenza vaccine and anti biotics of the 1950's took it's place). What is interesting is that it evenly dispenses the two liquids in a 3%/97% ratio by design.  Also, here is an interesting youtube video that was made to show a sneeze in a supermarket by University modeling/studies in Finland.  

  With some studying possibly this could reveal some of the research that went into this solution for simultaneous air sanitization in large and small spaces.  Actually found a product from 1950 that was an air sanitizer glycol dispenser from a different company.  What is interesting is the label for 150w consumption.  Most of the vaporizers of that period were drawing around 5 amps at 115v so over 500 watts.  As soon as I get it (purchased it) I will take it apart to see if the mechanism is similar to the patent.  If so, then it may not produce excessive heat in a room.  Smaller device .pdf attached.

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

I would also like to recommend a very good sanitizer. I use it myself.

https://uv-sanitizerr.com/product/uv-sanitizing-wand/

Not expensive and very comfortable.

RE: Propylene Glycol (surfactant) For Elimination Of Covid 19

Posted by: @michael-kendall

Hello group,

  Surfactant action is why soap is considered better than hand sanitizer at tearing apart the COVID 19 as it literally does that by attracting one side via the lipid shell and repelling it back into water as a broken piece(s).  

 Propylene glycol is in a family of surfactants and approved by FDA as generally safe.  It is used until now to spray surfaces to disinfect them. It's use also is everything from food additives, e-cigarette (it is not the ingredient causing popcorn lungs), anti-freeze, hair products, and many others.  Below is a link from a chemist's perspective of the safety involved.  There were lots of studies using propylene glycol and even comparing it to UV for effectiveness.  There was also steam vaporizers on the market (most common was a US brand called Hankscraft) that one could add glycol to.  Here screen capture of a study done in the 1940's as were many other studies on the subject in the 1940's.  They took a 14,000 square foot hospital ward and divided it into 16 cubicles then released  infectious culture at 3,000 particles per square foot.  Summary is that with no protection all white mice in cubicles died, with UV the cubicle that had that protection had mice survive but with some lesions, with propylene glycol 100 percent of mice survived.  They also at same time introduced a bacterial infection to study those results.  Also, is a list of studies for propylene glycol in fighting infections.  The word is that this used to be common for disinfecting the air in hospital wards.  It is still used to disinfect surfaces.  The swag is that if it is going to disinfect the air it surely is going to hit the surfaces also at some point.  Health issues might be of little concern when compared to the other hazards related to COVID19 in a hospital ward or even a restaurant (considering the economies will begin allowing this again).  

Summary:  Propylene Glycol is a good candidate for serious application by the maker community.

Texts, reference, link below.

Kind regards,

Mike Kendall

https://www.naturallycurly.com/curlreading/curl-products/curlchemist-the-truth-and-fiction-about-propylene-glycol

 

 

Henle W, Zellat J. Effect of propylene glycol aerosol on air-borne virus of Influenza. Proc Soc Exper Biol Med 1941;48:544.

 

Robertson OH, Loosli CG, Puck TT, Bigg E, Miller BF. The protection of mice against Infection with air-borne Influenza virus by means of propylene glycol vapour. Science 1941;94:612.

 

Harris TH, Stokes Jr. J. The effect of propylene glycol vapour on the incidence of respiratory infections in a convalescent home for children: preliminary observations. Am J Med Sci 1942;204:430.

 

Harris TH, Stokes Jr. J. Air-borne cross infection in the case of the common cold: a further clinical study of the use of glycol vapours for air sterilization. Am J Med Sci 1943;200:631.

 

Robertson OH, Bigg E, Puck TT, Miller BF, Technical Assistance of Elizabeth A. Appell. The bactericidal action of propylene glycol vapor on microorganisms suspended in air. I. J Exp Med 1942;75:593 610.

 

Puck TT, Robertson OH, Lemon HM. The bactericidal action of propylene glycol vapor on microorganisms suspended in air: II. the influence of various factors on the activity of the vapor. J Exp Med 1943;78:387 406.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very timely post Michael, thanks for sharing. I have been working on this topic for a while. Here is a summary of the paper.

"A technical opinion is provided regarding the efficiency of the commonly used disposable face masks against Coronavirus SARS Cov-2 (Covid-19). Possible unintended consequences of their use are also discussed. In response, a technical solution based on experimental results is proposed. It involves impregnating the face masks with propylene glycol (“PG”).  PG vapors display proven pathogen-mass-destruction properties. The objective of disclosing the relevant details through this communication is to trigger a critical review by the experts and decision makers, with a view to advance the technology to implementation. Please share this paper accordingly. Time is of essence. Thank you."

https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-mezei-a443869/detail/recent-activity/shares/