HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber  

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Posted by: @birdy

This is really really cool! 

I would hope not! 😉

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Hope not what?

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

A 'cool' nozzle would not be any good for traditional 3d printing
regards Joan

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

If you're talking about the Phaetus nozzle I mentioned, I am aware about safety, but considering the price and the brand reputation I think it is worth a shot. Although they only offer it in 0.4mm and I would want a 0.6 so I won't get it until they offer this size

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

@birdy, I was just kidding you. Talking about a "cool" project seemed funny to me when the goal is actually to run the printer extra hot.

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

the Phaetus nozzle I mentioned [...] Although they only offer it in 0.4mm and I would want a 0.6

Which nozzle are you talking about - exactly?
I'm using the Phaetus SiC nozzles for Prusa in 0.4 and 0.6 mm and both are very nice, just not "high flow", which isn't recommended for filaments with bigger particles anyway.
On the Phaetus website, they only mention 0.4 mm and it being sold out, but if you'll have a look at Ali Express, the official Phaetus Store offers both sizes for about 22€ with free shipping (Germany).

There are also local shops in multiple countries, that offer these nozzles. 

Btw: You not getting the joke made it a lot funnier 😀

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Oooh 😂 well, I'm too broke to go crazy with expensive hardware 😅 if I wasn't I totally would. F*** it, I'd make a 1000° core one if I had the money 😂

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Yeah, u was talking about the SiC nozzles, and I see🤔 but still idk if I'll need it so I won't get one yet. But if I need it I deffo will cus for the price its nice, even if they're a bit fragile and seem to chip relatively easily. 

Also here the stores only offer the 0.4mm so yeah. 

And yeah, lol, I'm not the brightest 😅

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Posted by: @birdy

This is really really cool! Tbh, I will never afford to print those high temp materials, but if I could get my nozzle temp to go from 290 to 320 or 350 I'd be satisfied 😄 I guess that requires a nozzle (since for CF u need a hardened one, saw a pretty cool phateus silicone carbide tip nozzle for about the same price so that seems good) and diffrent thermistor. I'd also isolate the insides, even without heater (unless I'll need to add it) just to help the passive heating. Either way this is awesome and I wish u the best of luck! 

Thank you so much! And it should be fully possible to only upgrade the nozzle setup, even to leave off the dual heaters and insulation because you only want ~350c, and insulate the chamber walls, without having to do much research on your own! The only things that are needed to do that are:

- A material to insulate the chamber with (of course), I recommend 1/8th inch thick solid silicone sheets because they --> should <-- fit on each side of the bed without issues. Haven't bought mine yet, going to try them out before I make any final suggestions!
- You absolutely have to upgrade the heaterblock from the aluminum one, at the very least (If you don't wanna grab the dual heater one and external MOSFET board, which you won't need if you snag a 65w heater) just get a plated copper block made for the Nextruder! The one I've short-term tested is: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CZDL8LTW
- You'll also need a new thermistor of course, preferably a PT1000 if you don't wanna change the firmware farther! The one I've short-term tested is: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TT1NHSY
- And of course, as suggested above, you'll need a different heater. I recommend grabbing a 6mm diameter (required) by 14mm length (Down to 12mm if you can somehow source one) heater cartridge, so it doesn't stick out of the block much compared to the 6mm x 2omm standard that the Nextruder doesn't use, and preferably make sure it can heat to at least 450c for your application, even 500c would be nice for headroom. The heaters (2 pack for $10) I've short-term tested are: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0B4CC1BFW
- Unless you can somehow source a native Nextruder nozzle that says it survives the higher temps (Preferably 500c), you'll have to go with an adapter + V6 setup! Here's the adapter I've short-term tested: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CW91V1TJ
- You'll of course also need a V6 nozzle to pair with the adapter! This is where the temp resistance is key, make sure: It can handle 500c, if you deal with abrasives make sure it is hard enough for them, and make sure it won't lose it's hardness at 500c. The one I used is the V6 Nozzle X from E3D, here's where I sourced it: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L1C7J77

That's it! And you should just be able to plug and play with the "normal" firmware (The one edited by me, but not any of the alternatives that'll exist unless you just want to), as the firmware doesn't even know the active chamber heater exists (It just blindly sends temp data over serial when asked and wonders why the temps increase), so this is almost the most barebones variant possible (Only way to go more bare would be to ditch chamber insulation)! It was really all I had in the original scope, before I made the first post, ignoring the chamber insulation, and is really the best, most cost-effective option to go for if you don't need too much more chamber temp stability, and don't need to go past ~400c on the nozzle. Best of luck to you!

(Also, P.S., if you go to the Github there should be a new beta release that should work with what you need! Just use it at your own risk as there may be tiny bugs I haven't caught yet. Don't take it as a stable release though, although so few changes have been made (All that's needed) that I don't really see why there'd be any issues!)

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

I have a minor update for you all! It's detailing the AC wiring on the bottom of the printer! I think everything's done with it besides researching high-amperage disconnect terminals for 12 AWG.

Some notes:
- All wiring is 12 AWG where possible (Everywhere outside of connectors is 12 AWG, connectors are as close as I could get and not documented here as I'm still researching as mentioned above)
- The main PSU doesn't use a standard plug (takes 3 individual wires instead) and doesn't have a built in on/off switch, only a 110/220v switch, hence the 3 wires just going into nothingness instead of saying they terminate into a connector
- The switch built into the underside PSU (The stock Core One PSU / the Prusa black housing one) will remain permanently on, as live (And only live!) is already switched before it reaches the connector. This allows using the front switches to control it!
- This should be perfectly fine with both 110v and 220v! The switches are rated for 250v 30A, plenty plenty of headroom for even 110v (~5-6A at 110v for the main PSU, ~2-3A 110v for the underside one, half it for 220v systems and verify the Prusa PSU and your main PSU of choice is fine with 220v). Just make sure you grab the correct plugs on the back!
- This should be perfectly safe, all wiring is spaced apart, everything's mounted to a non-conductive frame, all wiring is insulated, and all connectors (Ignoring fork connectors of course) are insulated, including the ones on the switches and outlets! Designed to be clean, serviceable, safe and securely mounted.
- I'm all ears for any questions, suggestions or critiques you may have!

Here are the images (Click to read!):

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer ^^ but dang, the stock heater doesn't survive 350°? I thought it would've since it's not a very big diffrence. But still 13$ ain't too bad.

Also I would think 65w is a bit overkill since I don't plan on going much past 350° but maybe you're right. I'll have to do more research when I do decide to do it. But the recommendations u have me will certainly be the starting point

Also the phateus SiC nozzles I mentioned are rated for 350° so they should be fine I think. Unless they prove to be too fragile with normal use, since they already chip a bit too easily, lol. We'll have to wait and see 

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Posted by: @birdy

Thanks a lot for the detailed answer ^^ but dang, the stock heater doesn't survive 350°? I thought it would've since it's not a very big diffrence. But still 13$ ain't too bad.

Also I would think 65w is a bit overkill since I don't plan on going much past 350° but maybe you're right. I'll have to do more research when I do decide to do it. But the recommendations u have me will certainly be the starting point

Also the phateus SiC nozzles I mentioned are rated for 350° so they should be fine I think. Unless they prove to be too fragile with normal use, since they already chip a bit too easily, lol. We'll have to wait and see 

The stock heater may or may not survive at 350c! I simply don't know that it will, I can't find a temp rating anywhere, which is a problem in my eyes. And at the point of changing the heater, might as well up the wattage a little too for extremely little to no cost! However, Assuming the MK4/S uses the same heater as the CORE One, Metacollin's high temp mod for the MK4/S uses the stock heater and is (supposedly) fine all the way to 450c! However, kind of unrelated to 350c territory but with my personal experience, I don't see how they used the stock heater there as even a 65w (vs 40w stock) heater can't go too far above 430c on the Core One before bottoming out without the silicone sock (Has to be removed as it only survives ~300c based on all nextruder socks that exist, although Metacollin doesn't say if they removed theirs or not).

However, back to the 350c territory, I don't see why the stock heater wouldn't be perfectly fine with the prior context! I simply recommend replacing it to verify the temp rating of the part. But if you're comfortable with trusting the stock heater, go for it! You'll still need to upgrade the heaterblock to plated copper, though, aluminum blocks soften at ~300c flat. And excess wear on the heater is almost guaranteed, which is the case on all heaters running higher than average temps, but especially ones that are designed to only ever see 290c at the highest and lack a hard temp rating, so it may wear out and give sooner than preferred. But besides that, it's likely perfectly fine!

And about the Phaetus SiC nozzles, the native Nextruder one doesn't list a max temp (Literally the case on all native Nextruder nozzles and I heavily dislike it) so I'd personally go with an adapter + V6 SiC nozzle, where the adapter's simply a big hunk of copper and in my case, titanium alloy, and the nozzle's rated for 550c sustained! I would've gave them a shot too if they'd actually come into stock on the official website, the 550c rating instead of the 500c rating almost everywhere else is headroom I'd love to have! Dunno how to feel about the chipping though, I'm not certain how much pressure the Core One puts on the nozzle to do bed-level-related tasks like homing and probing, and even then we don't have an official value from Phaetus on how hard the bed should push up against it. I'd personally give it a shot though if I could get my hands on one! The value is really nice, they're like $15-20 for one from what I've seen versus $50 for a Nozzle X only capable of 500c and (very likely) being less hard than the SiC insert.

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

I see, ok, so I should get a new heater block and trying out the stock heater and see how it does. If it goes out I doubt it'll damage anything else so it's worth a shot.

Yeah, it's quite annoying that the official nextruder nozzles don't post any temp ratings. 

Also, the pressure the core one applies when leveling is a good point. Although considering they were designed for prusas they should be able to take it but who knows, lol. Although logic tells me that, since it's somewhat like glass or crystals, only sharp metal things would damage it, and since the print bed isn't sharp, it should be fine. I'll be watching what the community says now that phateus posted some safety precautions to help prevent chipping. But yeah, value is very good, even if the silicon carbide tip isn't very high quality, since I read that it shouldn't be this easy to chip. As long as regular use doesn't affect it, it should be more than good with a bit of extra care 

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

After some testing i noticed its extremely difficult to get a brittle filament trough the nextruder gear, i thought i would test some PPA just to see how it would print at slightly to low 290 degrees. It had no chance and ended up as small broken of pieces up in the extruder gear area without ever reaching the nozzle. PPS is also very brittle, I wonder how this could be solved, many of the high temp filaments are brittle.

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

This is very alarming, thank you for bringing it to my attention! Out of curiosity, which exact filament did you use from what brand? It'd be nice to know so I can have a reference point on how brittle is too brittle for the stock Nextruder. And did it break solely at the gear, or also in the bend before entering the Nextruder?

Also, I've never looked into this side of the Nextruder, but maybe the tension on the lever could affect how easy the brittle filaments get ground up? It makes a little sense in my mind that if you have the lever tension really tight, and feed a brittle filament, that it'd get crushed. Do you know if you tensioned the lever really tight?

I just took a peek inside that part of the Nextruder myself, it seems relatively straight after the filament actually enters. So if it passes the bend fully but breaks in the gear area, I feel the lever tension is indeed the issue! I'm no expert, and have no experience with brittle filaments as I'm actually yet to get my first spool of Siraya Tech PPA-CF Core (A notably brittle filament, your mention of PPA really caught my eye and worries me), so these are just guesses! I really hope it's just a lever tension issue though, I really don't see how the gear section could otherwise shred filament that passes that bend at the top. I'm also considering snagging a Prusament PEI 1010 sample to mess with slightly, even if it's not brittle (I have no idea)!

Thanks so much for bringing this to my attention!

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Its siraya tech PPA-CF (non core), I first stumbled upon it on their FB site, they were asking if any core one users had tested their PPA since they heard it snapped. I thought it would snap in the bend but it did make it to the extruder gear, i also tried once without the bowden tube and just fed it straight down into the extruder with the same results. It snapped into 5-8mm pieces which i had to pick out with pliers around the extruder gear.

The tension is set according to the manual when i built it, I didnt have the time to ease it of yet so I dont know if it will work, I really hope it will, as this was quite a let down.

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Sooo, i tried first just slacking of the pretension as you mentioned, it worked well with the filament fed right into the extruder, but it was still breaking in the extruder gear when the bowden tube was attached. My theory was that the S bend the filament has to do from inlet to extruder gear was the issue, so i let loose the tube and reoriented it, and suddenly it worked. So printed the CNC test hook as a first print and it came out great, used the prusa PA11 profile but adjusted bed and nozzle temperature nothing else, open chamber of course since the lid is off. Im now printing a standing hook to check the layer adhesion. 

Siraya tech PPA-CF test hook:

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Posted by: @cedric

Sooo, i tried first just slacking of the pretension as you mentioned, it worked well with the filament fed right into the extruder, but it was still breaking in the extruder gear when the bowden tube was attached. My theory was that the S bend the filament has to do from inlet to extruder gear was the issue, so i let loose the tube and reoriented it, and suddenly it worked. So printed the CNC test hook as a first print and it came out great, used the prusa PA11 profile but adjusted bed and nozzle temperature nothing else, open chamber of course since the lid is off. Im now printing a standing hook to check the layer adhesion.

Amazing findings, thanks for sharing! I'm really happy that it's possible to print it, even though the bowden tube bend is too sharp. Going to design a PC-CF lid for the printer to include in the mod in place of the top acrylic panel, which raises the roof a little for a modified bowden bend while keeping the chamber fully sealed! I'll experiment with a different material for the time being, until I feel it's lenient enough to work!

And that hook looks very very nice, especially since it's just a PA11 profile with different printing temperatures! Really solidifies my belief in the stuff, but maybe I'm just getting a little worried for all filaments because of this really really really awful Sunlu elitePETG I tried out making the worst prints I've seen! Hopefully the new lid I'll start working on will fix compatibility with brittle filaments, while allowing chamber temps to be high, to improve the resulting prints!

And I have a minor update on the mod as a whole, too! Besides this new lid and bowden guide, everything needed is very very close to if not already final, design or part choice! I just need to source everything, which is the hard part currently. I'll update the Github in a moment, which is likely already updated by the time you're reading this, but for now I'm going to remove the estimated finish time due to the unpredictability of sourcing stuff!

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

I was thinking about a raised roof aswell, i see no other options and it would be simple. It  kinda works now with the std bend as it is now when i let the bowden tube loose (see attached pic). but it would definitely be better with a larger radius aswell, it takes quite some force to push it through that bend, this filament has a very coarse surface since it has large fibres, so the overall friction in the bowden is very high apart from the filament being stiff and brittle, the CF core will probably be better from that perspective. Though since the high temp setup will be made for difficult materials I assume its always good to have this tested out, PPS which would be nice to be able to print at 350 degC is also very brittle, would be interesting to test. 

I printed a few standing hooks aswell to test layer adhesion at this lower temp, they look very good, but some tuning to flow is needed to fuse the walls a bit better i think, overall the parts in PPA CF seems very strong.

RE: HT CORE One: 500c Nozzle and a Fully Automatic, Inputless, Actively Heated, Insulated Chamber

Here is the standing hook, looks good and works, maybe I should take a look on how PPA print profiles look and adjust a bit in future prints 🙂