Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)
 
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Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)  

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Arbois2102
(@arbois2102)
Active Member
Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)

Hi guys,

I have designed a shape to print that I load within Prusaslicer 2.3.3. I have designed, under the same software, the supports that go with it, in order to have optimized / tailor made supports, as I know that Prusaslicer can manage this option. 

I load then the maine shape within Prusaslicer, I right click on the shape, then select "Add enforcer", "Load", and then load the stl file corresponding to the supports. 

After having checked that everything is ok, I slice. At then end of the process, the supports are excluded from it. They do not appear in the slice results. Any idea ? I attach some screenshots for more details. Thank you for your advices.

Emmanuel

Posted : 02/11/2021 6:03 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member

I don't think you understand what an enforcer actually does.  A support enforcer marks areas on the model/object where you want the support algorithm within PS to place its supports.  The enforcer, whether painted, a built in modifier shape or an externally loaded shape  must intersect the surface of the model to mark it as 'I want supports here'.  Once the areas are marked (or excluded in the case of a blocker) then the normal supports are generated by PS.  The arent inclusion or exclusion zones.  They merely mark the model for the software to do its thing.

What your shape appears to be is a self designed support structure.  Those should be loaded as type part.  Same as any other printable part as even though they are acting as support the slicer doesnt care, its just another part of the model.  Normally models with built in supports are exported with the main model so it all comes in together and is placed correctly.

If you are providing your own built in modeled supports then they should stop a suitable distance away from the surface they are designed to support, should be printable with the extrusion width settings (is with a 0.4 nozzle with a 0.45mm standard extrusion width they should not be thinner than 0.45mm). Its hard to tell from your picture but it looks like your support intersects and goes through your main part.

If you want more detailed help then you really need to save your project from PS (File > Save project as).  This will generate a 3mf file which is in effect a snapshot of the build plater, and has copies of your in use profiles and any modifiers etc that may be in use.  Then take that 3mf file and ZIP it up.  It must be zipped for the forum to accept the file type.  Once zipped then use the attach file option to attach it to a post here.  We can tell much more with a saved project.

 

Posted : 02/11/2021 8:35 pm
Arbois2102
(@arbois2102)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)

Hi, thank you very much for your reply. I have attached the 3mf file, then you could see how I have set the support up.

The Y shape is supposed to be the support for the main shape, for the two overhangs. Is the issue the fact that the support doesn't cross the main shape ?

Thank you

Posted : 04/11/2021 6:26 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member

No 3mf file visible at the moment.  You did zip it up didn't you ?  

Posted : 04/11/2021 8:55 pm
Arbois2102
(@arbois2102)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)

I try again. Here's the file. Thanks again.

Posted : 04/11/2021 9:09 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member

That's actually looking pretty good as is.  Have you actually tried printing it yet ?  I'd maybe increase the distance between the support and the overhangs by 0.1 to account for PS use of the bridging infill there which is thicker than a normal layer.  I'd also set the bridging angle manually as that fills in more of the area around the holes than auto does if set to something like 90 degrees.

There's a few other things on the settings that personally I would have different.  Like the 3mm retraction with a Mk3 printer ?  I have 0.6mm for pla on mine and z lift turned very with almost no stringing (damp filament or running too hot occasionally, gives me a tiny bit of spider webbing which a blue flame lighter clears away instantly).  Generally 2mm is the max you want to use on a mk3 or you can pull molten filament back into the cool zone which increases the chances of a jam.

Also Id use 3 perimeters and turn off 'Ensure vertical shell thickness'.  That will get rid of a lot of the extraneous internal solid infill except at the top of the curve and actually decrease print times significantly. As well as reduce your printer shaking.  Yeah its not intuitive but thicker walls can sometimes make printing quicker.  Will also make the part much stronger as a bonus.

The support object I'd reduce the infill and perimeters for that part only, less waste.

I've attached a zip with how I would try printing it.  There's quite a few minor changes.  Print time is just over 12 hours. 

If you are worried you can always print the support test 3mf in the zip archive first to tweak the support distances.  Its basically a thin section containing the tops of the support and the overhangs on the object.  Prints in under 30 minutes.

 

Posted : 04/11/2021 9:52 pm
Arbois2102
(@arbois2102)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)

Hi, it is really kind of you to have taken the time to look at the attachment, with such attention to details.

Thank you very much, I really appreciate it. I will try the settings you suggest, and will adjust the overlap between the supports and the main shape, and see then what the outcome is.

Thank you again, wishing you a nice evening.

Posted : 04/11/2021 9:58 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member

I just printed the test slice out and the supports are still too close, dropping them down by 0.1, so Id certainly drop them down more and then try the support test print with the material you are going to use.  

Posted : 04/11/2021 11:02 pm
Ringarn67
(@ringarn67)
Reputable Member
Layer Height vs Support Distance

@neophyl

I have been playing around with the files you provided, (I learn from every file you people upload 👍), and have a question? 
Does layer height on the support part matter?
I mean, if primary part has layer height 0.2 and support part also has 0.2, wouldn't that make it impossible for PS to make a 0.1 space?
If instead, support part has 0.1 layer height, PS can make the space.
It would make sense to use Height Range Modifier to adjust just the topmost layer(s) if support part is high, as in this case.

I tested my theory on the test file you uploaded and it ->LOOKS<- like my theory is correct.
One support part is 0.2, the other 0.1

 

Prusa i3 MK3S+ FW 3.11.0 (kit dec -20), PrusaSlicer 2.6.1+win64, Fusion 360, Windows 10

Posted : 05/11/2021 4:56 pm
Neophyl
(@neophyl)
Illustrious Member
RE: Tailor made supports (stl) not sliced by PrusaSlicer (v. 2.3.3)

I’m not at my pc so can’t download your file as yet but I will later.

The original 2 objects as provided had a very small gap between them. It didn’t look enough so I suggested just dropping the support object down 0.1 to increase the gap (I just used the cut tool in PS rather than taking the models into Blender). I printed that thin  section last night and came to the conclusion that dropping the modelled support an extra 0.1 wasn’t enough as it was still welding itself to the main object. It might have been better to drop it a whole 1-2mm , and then paint the areas above with a support enforcer and then let PS  add a thin layer of support between the two.

Theres other things I could have tried too, like setting the layer height on the support object to 0.3 to print that faster.  

If I was modelling in the supports for those areas I would have probably have just tried simple square towers below rather than the branching structure. With a single perimeter and zero infill with a completely bridged top I think they would be equally as effective and print faster in the end. Then I’d either let PS use it’s support between or if I wasn’t doing that the first thing I would have done is added a 1 layer thick “patch” over the bottom of the holes.  this would allow the bottom to be nice and evenly bridged and the 1 layer membrane would just poke right out. It’s something I use on counterbore holes for cap head bolts often. 
That’s one of the things I love about the whole design and print process, there’s usually more than one way to do things and It’s always a new learning experience.

 

Posted : 05/11/2021 5:45 pm
Ringarn67 liked
Ringarn67
(@ringarn67)
Reputable Member

That’s one of the things I love about the whole design and print process, there’s usually more than one way to do things and It’s always a new learning experience.

Totally agree, it is often more fun then making stuff 😀 

Thanks for your answer

Prusa i3 MK3S+ FW 3.11.0 (kit dec -20), PrusaSlicer 2.6.1+win64, Fusion 360, Windows 10

Posted : 05/11/2021 6:56 pm
Swiss_Cheese
(@swiss_cheese)
Noble Member
RE:

@ringarn67

 

if primary part has layer height 0.2 and support part also has 0.2, wouldn't that make it impossible for PS to make a 0.1 space?

The short answer is no, it's very possible, there's several ways I can think of off the top of my head.

 

you can do it with a Height range modifier, Modifier Mesh, you can do it in Cadd before import, and you can use the layer height adjustment.

Note: you may have to set the support as a separate object in some cases, and if you were using 2.4 you would then gain the ability to simply sink the support part below the bed for adjustment.

 

Hope this was helpful

 

Swiss_Cheese

The Filament Whisperer

Posted : 05/11/2021 7:25 pm
Ringarn67 liked
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