Update...(Kind of)  

RE: Update...(Kind of)

It would be nice if Prusa included the belt pitch as a config item in the firmware, so that those experimenting didn't have to apply the scaling gcode command.  In practice it means I can't use the stock printer profiles without adding the scaling command to each one and saving it as a custom profile.  But it's a small inconvenience in the scheme of things.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

When does an anecdote become evidence?

Not sure, but it seemed when people were trying them out for every person who saw a difference, were just as many saying it made no difference.
I'm still in the camp that they will always be visible (on any core XY printer) when you hit the right (or wrong) speeds...and I think if they were the magic bullet Prusa would've had to swallow their pride and change for the C1L.

Thing is I never print with shiny filaments, I personally think shiny plastic things look cheap and tacky, so I only print filled or matte filaments and tbh I haven't seen, or even thought about VFAs in months... it's basically become a non-issue for me.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

Posted by: @hyiger

 

Posted by: @jurgen-7

Not sure how compelling the VFA connection is. For what it's worth, Bambu Lab have switched to belts with 1.5 mm pitch for their larger H2 series printers. Given that this must add a bit of cost (since the belts and pulleys are less mainstream), I strongly suspect they have found an actual benefit. Well, or a good marketing story...

In any case, my H2D does not suffer from VFAs the way my Core One did. Whether that's due to the different belts, I don't know.

I could never get VFA's tamed on the Core One. Especially with slow, glossy black filaments such as PC Blend. Same prints on an H2D and they aren't really noticeable at all. So perhaps there is something to 1.5mm belts. If I remember the QiDi Q2 uses them also, claiming it mitigates VFA's

We got a h2d at work recently, the automation and useability is good, but im not very impressed by the print quality so far, at least with std profiles and bambu filament, my c1 would be slightly better in most cases. I was surprised to see some ringing for example. Maybe its like the c1 and there are some examples that are better than others.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

I’m a little surprised with the H2D issues… make sure you ran the calibration and the high temp calibration. Never had that issue… Core One I had that issue with VFAs, but it was a lot better once they made all the updates.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

I must have gotten a lemon.  I returned my H2D after 30 days of trying to get support and support unable to help.  I have not had many issues with my Core One.  

Posted by: @gbmaryland

I’m a little surprised with the H2D issues… make sure you ran the calibration and the high temp calibration. Never had that issue… Core One I had that issue with VFAs, but it was a lot better once they made all the updates.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

Yeah, the trade-off is that Bambu give you all of these features out of the box and when the printer works from the beginning as it’s supposed to, and you perform the maintenance on it like you’re supposed to, it’s a pretty rock solid piece of equipment. I upgraded the H2 D using the upgrade kit to make it an H2 C and it’s continued to work very well. my expectation is that the INDX will probably be a better overall solution… 

the downside to Bambu is that their technical support is anything but freaking awesome… I have not been overly impressed, but I will say that if you have an issue, and it will take time to deal with, you will eventually get whatever part you need and so. I’m sure Prusa it’s better when it comes to technical support, but I will say that the one time I needed their support they absolutely blew me off and it was a poor at best experience; effectively they tried to blame me and the guy told me that he was getting off shift in a few minutes and implied he didn’t have a lot of time to work on the issue. so far Prusa has proven to me that their technical support is every bit as bad as anybody else’s… which is why I sold the core one. effectively, if I’m gonna get treated like shit I might as well have all the features right off the bat. 

I really want to see the INDX change this be a huge win. I almost bought a core one L the other day with the intention of eventually of grading it to the INDX system, but they don’t have them in stock and they’re insanely expensive when you look at it… so I bought an X2D to hold me over.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

Posted by: @cwbullet

I must have gotten a lemon.  I returned my H2D after 30 days of trying to get support and support unable to help.  I have not had many issues with my Core One.  

Sorry to hear that. What functional issues did you encounter with the H2D?

Bambu's email support works about as well (or as poorly) as Prusa's email support: Turnaround times of two days, applicable also in every round of follow-up emails. But Bambu does not offer the equivalent of Prusa's online chat of course.

RE:

>> if I’m gonna get treated like shit

Sorry to break the bad news but corporate magic is absolutely baseline freakin' mandatory to melt thermoplastics into a predefined shape. Really. Otherwise, I don't know, bad things would happen. Maybe they refuse to melt. Or worse.

You're the buyer. They are the seller. Deal with it 😀

RE: Update...(Kind of)

I have mixed feelings about prusa support, not sure it’s as good as people make out. In my experience they make you dance through hoops and at times treated me like a fool. If I had a penny for ever time I got asked if the belts were tensioned properly…  but I got there eventually with my issues. Only took months 😂 however they likely remain one of the only companies that will continue to provide support even if you modify the device. So there’s that at least 

RE: Update...(Kind of)

I wish I had pictures of the prints ands captured all the issues.  Well, it arrives with a broken glass door.  They sent a replacement.  

Second problem: poor extrusion.  I start printing with it and I could get the flow rate right.  They send me a new hotend assemble and that seem to correct that for the most part.  

Lastly, Layer shifts, VFAs, and nozzle clogs on every other print.  I spend about 2 weeks trying to get it corrected.  I am 100% certain it was mechanical in nature.  I tried everything I know as an experienced user and multiple hours doing searches and discussing it with support.  Prusa’s support is so much more responsive and helpful.  

Posted by: @jurgen-7

Posted by: @cwbullet

I must have gotten a lemon.  I returned my H2D after 30 days of trying to get support and support unable to help.  I have not had many issues with my Core One.  

Sorry to hear that. What functional issues did you encounter with the H2D?

Bambu's email support works about as well (or as poorly) as Prusa's email support: Turnaround times of two days, applicable also in every round of follow-up emails. But Bambu does not offer the equivalent of Prusa's online chat of course.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

I wish I had pictures of the prints ands captured all the issues.  Well, it arrives with a broken glass door.  They sent a replacement.  

Second problem: poor extrusion.  I start printing with it and I could get the flow rate right.  They send me a new hotend assemble and that seem to correct that for the most part.  

Lastly, Layer shifts, VFAs, and nozzle clogs on every other print.  I spend about 2 weeks trying to get it corrected.  I am 100% certain it was mechanical in nature.  I tried everything I know as an experienced user and multiple hours doing searches and discussing it with support.  Prusa’s support is so much more responsive and helpful.  

Posted by: @jurgen-7

Posted by: @cwbullet

I must have gotten a lemon.  I returned my H2D after 30 days of trying to get support and support unable to help.  I have not had many issues with my Core One.  

Sorry to hear that. What functional issues did you encounter with the H2D?

Bambu's email support works about as well (or as poorly) as Prusa's email support: Turnaround times of two days, applicable also in every round of follow-up emails. But Bambu does not offer the equivalent of Prusa's online chat of course.

RE: Update...(Kind of)

I disagree.  The chat support has been stellar.  They have always been able to help me even if I modify the printer.  Bambu and Anycubic are hit and miss.  FLSUN has good support.  Elegoo has been nothing but fantastic.

Posted by: @wdlandry

I have mixed feelings about prusa support, not sure it’s as good as people make out. In my experience they make you dance through hoops and at times treated me like a fool. If I had a penny for ever time I got asked if the belts were tensioned properly…  but I got there eventually with my issues. Only took months 😂 however they likely remain one of the only companies that will continue to provide support even if you modify the device. So there’s that at least 

RE:

Posted by: @cedric

We got a h2d at work recently, the automation and useability is good, but im not very impressed by the print quality so far, at least with std profiles and bambu filament, my c1 would be slightly better in most cases. I was surprised to see some ringing for example. Maybe its like the c1 and there are some examples that are better than others.

I guess it's hit-or-miss. As you know, I am very meticulous about calibrating filaments across all my printers and nozzles.  

On my C1, even after carefully tuning the belts and running the input-shaper calibration, I was still getting terrible ringing and ghosting with PC Blend. I was able to reduce it somewhat by drastically slowing down the max flow rate and perimeter speeds but then my print times shot up to double or triple. Since the parts I was printing were not only functional but also cosmetic, it was unacceptable. Matte and filled filaments will hide this but my particular projects (rockets) need to be very bright and glossy to make them easier to spot. I doubt the ringing affected performance but the esthetics bothered me. 

Same parts on the H2D, I still have some ringing but it's not as noticeable and I really have to look for it.  In general, the H2D most definitely outperforms the C1 with engineering filaments due no doubt to having active heating (and a 350° nozzle). There is also negligible skew in the XY plane as opposed to my C1 which has a -0.15° skew which I needed to compensate for. As for commodity filaments like PLA/PETG etc, I don't really notice much of a difference between the two. 

However, the C1 does better with TPU and other flexibles like PEBA-Air. It is much easier to print them on a C1. 

When the INDX is ready, it will be superior for multi-color for sure but less so for multi-material. I still don't see myself doing a lot of multi-color so the novelty might wear off quickly. Will see. 

RE:

Wanted to add, that I've not had a failed print on the H2D that wasn't caused by simple user error. Quite happy with it. I'm still happy with the Core One (after spending the first 6 weeks of it's life fixing it). However until the INDX arrives, it's not getting much attention. Switching from the H2D to the C1, the build plate is now comically small. 

RE: Update...(Kind of)

yeah, that's why it has to be a core one L... the build plate on the other printer is so much larger that you get accustomed to it. Frankly, I'd love to have an XL, but without the enclosed environment and the active heating, it's just not as useful even though it's possibly a better printer