RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Wow the guy with dark hair is hardly Mr Charisma, is he ? 😂
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
LOL - I thought that. Seems like he's bored!
Wow the guy with dark hair is hardly Mr Charisma, is he ? 😂
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
He's an electrical engineer. What did you expect? 😉
I like the idea of not just letting the PR guys present these updates, but the actual developers. Can we please meet a software developer next?
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
It's like there's a guy off camera pointing a gun at him. I bet the electrical engineers all had to pick straws as to who had to go infront of the camera !!
You're getting really twitchy about the software, arent you ? 🤣
RE:
You're getting really twitchy about the software, arent you ? 🤣
Oh yes... I have been in too many hardware + software projects which ended up with months of delay on the software side.
(Well, that's not entirely fair. It might have helped if the hardware guys had provided working prototypes to the software team a bit earlier... And if they had avoided the "Oh, by the way -- we now realize that this bit is not entirely reproducible. Can you please add some compensation/calibration mechanism to the software at late notice?" 🙄)
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Im honestly not that concerned mate, I mean, from a software standpoint, is INDX really that different from the Prusa XL?
Is it the actual C1 Firmware that concerns you, or the slicing side of things ?
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Im honestly not that concerned mate, I mean, from a software standpoint, is INDX really that different from the Prusa XL?
Is it the actual C1 Firmware that concerns you, or the slicing side of things ?
Both actually. On the slicer side, it seems like INDX support will be baked into PrusaSlicer 3.0 -- presumably a major overhaul, not just minor adaptations of the existing multicolor support. On the firmware side, it's more "death by a thousand paper cuts" I'm afraid of: Different docking movement, different way to check whether docking was successful, different XYZ calibration details, new temperature sensor and filament sensor, new heater with different PID feedback loop, different characteristics of the load cell, different orientation of the accelerometer axes...
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
At SMRRF last weekend I was told that the slicer profiles for INDX would be available by the time INDX was shipping. There was no suggestion that Slicer v3 was necessary to support INDX.
Everything from Bondtech suggests that INDX is going to start shipping this month and there is no way Prusa could get V3 through beta and RC and release a stable version in that sort of timescale.
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Agree that the hold up is most likely software. From what I've seen in demonstrations the INDX can work with patching/hacking g-code so the hardware side of it seems to be worked out (I'm assuming).
I hopefully that it will be ready by the time we receive our Founder's kits. I would not want to be in a situation where I've torn apart my printer, attached everything and it's a dead paperweight because of firmware issues.
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
In the recent email from Bondtech (in response to my question how easy it will be to install a different nozzle), they told me they had not seen any firmware which supports XY calibration. I suppose there will be a trick similar to what the XL does, tapping a fixed target pin with the nozzle and sensing that with the load cell; and calibration will be required because there are manufacturing tolerances between nozzles. Makes me wonder what else is missing, or was still missing very recently.
But I would certainly be very happy if my software concerns turn out to be unfounded. 🙂
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
In the recent email from Bondtech (in response to my question how easy it will be to install a different nozzle), they told me they had not seen any firmware which supports XY calibration. I suppose there will be a trick similar to what the XL does, tapping a fixed target pin with the nozzle and sensing that with the load cell; and calibration will be required because there are manufacturing tolerances between nozzles. Makes me wonder what else is missing, or was still missing very recently.
But I would certainly be very happy if my software concerns turn out to be unfounded. 🙂
I think that's how the Snapmaker U1 does it. There is well in the print bed that it uses to calibrate the tool heads
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
It's a bit funny how many people are baffled by the rigid-flex circuit. It is a pretty typical thing to see in more compact electronics. They are perfectly suitable and durable for this sort of application. They are fine with heat as well, they get used for embedded heaters in some applications (using the board as a big resistor, basically). That PCB is only going to get flexed a handful of times at most during installation.
Circuits are made from layers of circuit board material bonded together. The woven fiberglass cores get pressed together, with the polyimide layer and some adhesive layers in between. As long as you are not abusive to it, it's held together pretty well at that point. Connectors and traditional flex cables could be a worse choice here just due to safety, possibility of the connector vibrating loose over time, etc. This isn't going anywhere once it's attached.
The engineer in black looked and sounded hung over.
RE:
This all looks great to me, but how are the planning to enclose this unit? looks like it is completely open on the top.... lots of tubes similar to XL, so.... how are we enclosing this without adding more gaps everywhere, or making the enclosure obscenely huge?
Also, what are the plans to get the enclosure past 60 degrees. We need hotter enclosure for better printing and better materials without adding a blanket to it or modding the printer, you know, for those of us that like our house and do not wish to start a fire in the basement.
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
This all looks great to me, but how are the planning to enclose this unit? looks like it is completely open on the top.... lots of tubes similar to XL, so....
INDX will get the same black "tank turret" hood as used with the MMU3 option. Prusa has demonstrated this configuration since FormNext last year; there are plenty of pictures around. Ugly as hell, no visibility of the print, no more automated vent control, extra chamber volume for the hot air to move up to -- but it's closed.
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Also, what are the plans to get the enclosure past 60 degrees. We need hotter enclosure for better printing and better materials without adding a blanket to it or modding the printer, you know, for those of us that like our house and do not wish to start a fire in the basement.
That isn't related to INDX, right?
Check out the Core One+ sub-forum here; there are several discussions. Adding a 3rd party chamber heater is an option, but there are concerns whether the components inside the chamber (toolhead motor & electronics, XY motors, belts, camera) would still work reliably at higher temperatures. The most recent firmware actually lowers the temperature limit for the chamber.
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Also, what are the plans to get the enclosure past 60 degrees. We need hotter enclosure for better printing and better materials without adding a blanket to it or modding the printer, you know, for those of us that like our house and do not wish to start a fire in the basement.
The only way to get a chamber above 60° is to buy a H2X or Qidi
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Correct, which defeats the purpose of an enclosed index system. The goal is to be able to print with multiple materials and not just multiple colours. So unless this is enclosed properly then it is a no starter. There are cheap machines able to do multiple colour for much less than the cost of a prusa with indx. Less colours, sure, but you can buy several machines for the cost of one prusa.
So where is the angle here? Where are the gains?
The only way forward with this system is a properly enclosed unit, that can reach proper temperature and manage VOCs better while doing multiple materials in multiple colours... enclosed. Otherwise this indx system makes absolutely no sense, turning a good decent enclosed system - that cannot exceed 55degrees - into a very expensive downgrade.
I suspect Core one upgrade to manage high temp soon. Otherwise Prusa will.be obsolete soon.
RE: INDX Update - Extruder
Otherwise Prusa will.be obsolete soon.
They were obsolete the moment they didn't aggressively build out the XL series, went with the MK4 and didn't introduce a consumer grade CoreXY until it was too late.
RE:
rmmmh, I am not sure about this but they have only a few punches left in the prosumer and consumer market if they don't level up quick.
Some things are true, the print quality is some of the best, it can put some predictability in a workflow and it is not a chinese company with ties to a communist government required to comply with intelligence agencies. Not a tin hat moment, just common knowledge.
I like the slicer better. Feels nice to use.
But they truly need to make this indx system the best, it need to handle hotter temp or as hot as 65 degrees FAST and it needs to be enclosed or we are going back. It would be a shame if they do otherwise. I am not interested in printing coloured trinkets. Maybe I am asking too much of this platform and I need to save my $ for an INDX22 v4?
I will start looking for alternatives, I presume bondtech is going to sell this system to another company as well, and it might be to invest in a different printer system, open source maybe? I really do not know but I am not sold on this INDX gen just yet. Looks promising but we will see. I cannot justify buying it unless they really kill it with this release.