Core One L launch
Well, congrats on the product launch. "Actively heated chamber" and "AC heatbed" ticks just the right boxes, startup time with non-PLA on Core One has potential for improvement. Let's hope for a controlled trajectory.
RE: Core One L launch
Um, Someone in Prusa please proof read the announcements.
If the core one was truely 0.95M3, I would be buying one now. I think they mean cubic feet, not cubic meters in the chart. Unless my math teacher taught us wrong.
Also I have been logged in and have tried 3 browsers, windows and apple based OS and I cannot reply or add comments to the blog. Neither can I get the video to work. Keeps asking for me to set cookies, over and over and over, even logged in and re-opening the page. I guess the web group is not ISO certified yet.
All the above aside, the Core 1L seems to be targeted to top end hobbyists and business use. I hope the heat bed will be an available option on the Core One. Serial vs. Parallel wiring to switch from 220 to 110 v is a good design. Higher voltage means about 1/5th the amperage needed, or smaller wires.
Need to see how the aluminum plate is mounted to account for the growth during heating. A 90C change from room to 110 could cause the aluminum plate to grow to 306.2 mm. Cast aluminum maybe a little less, but not much.
One question I do have, is it the same buddy board, or a new controller to support the advanced options and new heatbed? There must be a relay for the AC power switch somewhere.
RE: Core One L launch
Why is an AC bed beneficial? Less energy through the PSU?
RE: Core One L launch
Why is an AC bed beneficial? Less energy through the PSU?
Yes, a PSU is expensive in $/W for several reasons, where AC is just an inexpensive Triac circuit.
Implicitly it translates into "higher power", let's hope that "translation" is correct.
RE:
> One question I do have, is it the same buddy board, or a new controller to support the advanced options and new heatbed? There must be a relay for the AC power switch somewhere.
It is a new board for the printer and a new section to control the heat bed.
> I hope the heat bed will be an available option on the Core One. Serial vs. Parallel wiring to switch from 220 to 110 v is a good design. Higher voltage means about 1/5th the amperage needed, or smaller wires.
On reddit there was a note that it may be considered for future Core One S or as an upgrade, but because of the electronics and requirements for the 110V it will be a quite expensive upgrade, if ever.
One more thing, there wont be an upgrade kit from Core One to Core One L, because effectively it is so many parts it is effectively a new printer.
See my GitHub and printables.com for some 3d stuff that you may like.
RE:
A separately shipped upgrade would need to overcome a few obstacles that aren't immediately obvious:
User-installed mains voltage wiring is problematic. I could see a custom PSU / temperature control module with "no user serviceable parts inside" having a C13/C14 connector to the hotplate (example for outlets in a device can be found on old PC power supplies or stage lighting equipment) but they are rated for fairly low pin temperature. It would need a high-temperature cable with the (small) low temperature connector and a bunch of lawyers familiar with IEC60320. Alternatively, higher-temperature versions like C15 but size is getting out of hand quickly. This would look like a 1960 waffle iron...
Just thinking aloud, not an expert on such things.
RE: Core One L launch
My realistic point of view as a long time prusa fanboy - i see some pros, but sadly much more cons.
Pros:
Good build volume
Faster and better heating of the bed
Heated Chamber
Cons:
Only 290c nozzle temp?! I dont get why they still stick to this (bye bye PA6, PPA, PPS and layer adhesion). They could make this as an entry "engineering" filament printer - so the enclosure and heated chamber would make finally sense.
THE PRICE. Realistically it should be 40-50% cheaper to be competitive. The H2S is even CHEAPER than the little core one and is better in every way.
No good solution for multimaterial printing
It makes me sad. I dont know if Prusa can survive this competition.
1x Prusa Mini
3x Modded MK3.5 "HT" (450C nozzle temp)
RE: Core One L launch
My realistic point of view as a long time prusa fanboy - i see some pros, but sadly much more cons.
Pros:
Good build volume
Faster and better heating of the bed
Heated Chamber
Cons:
Only 290c nozzle temp?! I dont get why they still stick to this (bye bye PA6, PPA, PPS and layer adhesion). They could make this as an entry "engineering" filament printer - so the enclosure and heated chamber would make finally sense.
THE PRICE. Realistically it should be 40-50% cheaper to be competitive. The H2S is even CHEAPER than the little core one and is better in every way.
No good solution for multimaterial printing
It makes me sad. I dont know if Prusa can survive this competition.
I print lots of PA6 and PPA on the Core One with a 270 0r 280 nozzle temp. But yes, PPS is not an option which has more to do with the fact that the chamber temp can only reach 55C.
Multi-material (Bondtech INDX) will be announced in a couple of weeks.
RE: Core One L launch
I just bought the regular COREONE this summer... the printbed size was my biggest setback... (but I did not wanted a boombox like the Centauri Carbon either) ...now this (the L) launches.... and I had no clue...
RE: Core One L launch
I just bought the regular COREONE this summer... the printbed size was my biggest setback... (but I did not wanted a boombox like the Centauri Carbon either) ...now this (the L) launches.... and I had no clue...
One hack, is to get a larger print sheet. You can change the bed size in PrusaSlicer and squeeze out another 20-30mm in X/Y
RE: Core One L launch
I just bought the regular COREONE this summer... the printbed size was my biggest setback... (but I did not wanted a boombox like the Centauri Carbon either) ...now this (the L) launches.... and I had no clue...
Same for me. I just finished my Core One kit yesterday and at the same day found that there is a new printer available.
OK, it not a kit (yet?), but still I am not very happy .....
RE: Core One L launch
I just bought the regular COREONE this summer... the printbed size was my biggest setback... (but I did not wanted a boombox like the Centauri Carbon either) ...now this (the L) launches.... and I had no clue...
Same for me. I just finished my Core One kit yesterday and at the same day found that there is a new printer available.
OK, it not a kit (yet?), but still I am not very happy .....
It will probably never be a kit. I think Prusa is moving away from kits for their more advanced printers.
RE: Core One L launch
Frankly, I'm glad I bought the full package with MMU because the more I read, the harder it would get to make the purchasing decision. The real concern is, please Prusa, keep your corporate feet on the ground and support this new product to maturity like you did earlier products.
It has its quirks but print results seem very solid. The MMU as an optional add-on is efficient so it actually does get used for pointless multicolor printing with acceptable waste.
Yes, the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. For me, the argument "I've got it here, 'pipe-cleaned', can maintain it and repair it" carries a lot of weight. Personally, I bought this box with a 5+ year lifespan in mind so new product announcements matter little. INDX could be interesting if it comes to Core One. And if not, MMU will have to do.
RE: Core One L launch
My realistic point of view as a long time prusa fanboy - i see some pros, but sadly much more cons.
Pros:
Good build volume
Faster and better heating of the bed
Heated Chamber
Cons:
Only 290c nozzle temp?! I dont get why they still stick to this (bye bye PA6, PPA, PPS and layer adhesion). They could make this as an entry "engineering" filament printer - so the enclosure and heated chamber would make finally sense.
THE PRICE. Realistically it should be 40-50% cheaper to be competitive. The H2S is even CHEAPER than the little core one and is better in every way.
No good solution for multimaterial printing
It makes me sad. I dont know if Prusa can survive this competition.
Aren’t some of the competitors rated for 350 C?
it will be interesting to see how many of the internal parts are injection molded for the core one L. That might make it easier to switch to some higher end engineering materials. I think the real issue is the demand for this. My guess is if drone production really takes off and they want more engineering polymer produced material materials that there will be a push for more higher temp printers.
RE: Core One L launch
I think it comes down to marketing in most cases. I'm going to make up a number, but suppose 90% of the consumers making a decision between brand X and brand Y are only comparing the specs with little to no clue as to why they need 290C vs 350C? Being naive, I might think: Well 350C is certainly better isn't it? Even though I would (in this example) have no idea why I would need such a high nozzle temperature. Especially if I'm only ever going to print PLA or PETG.
RE: Core One L launch
Yep, bought the Core One despite the small size, if I had known this was coming I would happily have waited, especially with the long delays on the Core One. Prusa marketing team must be working for the competition...
RE: Core One L launch
As a manufacturer pre-announcing product is mostly a great way to kill your sales and give your competition more time to respond, and heaven help you if you hit unexpected delays. If you figure 1/3 of core one buyers would have waited for an L (I might have) and you pre-announce three months, you have just wiped out one full month's worth of Core One sales. Even if you take pre-orders and can fulfill all of them on the launch date (big If) that is a lot of risk and delayed cashflow to work through.
And on top of that, you will have customers who bought on day 91-180 before the release mad that you didn't pre-announce it sooner for them.
In the end your printer is capable of everything it was one week ago and if you really want there is always the option to sell it since these seem to hold their value fairly well. I'm not saying I don't sympathize but Prusa has to be a business first or else we will be talking about them in the past tense.
RE: Core One L launch
My realistic point of view as a long time prusa fanboy - i see some pros, but sadly much more cons.
Pros:
Good build volume
Faster and better heating of the bed
Heated Chamber
Cons:
Only 290c nozzle temp?! I dont get why they still stick to this (bye bye PA6, PPA, PPS and layer adhesion). They could make this as an entry "engineering" filament printer - so the enclosure and heated chamber would make finally sense.
THE PRICE. Realistically it should be 40-50% cheaper to be competitive. The H2S is even CHEAPER than the little core one and is better in every way.
No good solution for multimaterial printing
It makes me sad. I dont know if Prusa can survive this competition.
Aren’t some of the competitors rated for 350 C?
it will be interesting to see how many of the internal parts are injection molded for the core one L. That might make it easier to switch to some higher end engineering materials. I think the real issue is the demand for this. My guess is if drone production really takes off and they want more engineering polymer produced material materials that there will be a push for more higher temp printers.
Yes, the H2S (which i consider as the main competitor of the Core One L) is 350°C. Everything Prusa (except the HT90) is capped @ 290C. So PPA-CF, PPS-CF etc. are sadly out of question on these printers. Yes, you cant print it @ 290C limit, but the layer adhesion is still poor (i have tried it, you need at least 320C+ for these). Funny enough, the old MK3 could do 300°C 🙂
I know, i am a very specific customer (i print 90% of my models from PA12-CF and better). But i hoped for something "between" the classic printers (290C) and hi-temp HT90 (500C).
We'll see what brings the INDX system with induction, hopefully it will bump the maxtemp a little bit above the 300C zone.
1x Prusa Mini
3x Modded MK3.5 "HT" (450C nozzle temp)
RE: Core One L launch
Yes, the H2S (which i consider as the main competitor of the Core One L) is 350°C. Everything Prusa (except the HT90) is capped @ 290C. So PPA-CF, PPS-CF etc. are sadly out of question on these printers. Yes, you cant print it @ 290C limit, but the layer adhesion is still poor (i have tried it, you need at least 320C+ for these). Funny enough, the old MK3 could do 300°C 🙂
I know, i am a very specific customer (i print 90% of my models from PA12-CF and better). But i hoped for something "between" the classic printers (290C) and hi-temp HT90 (500C).
We'll see what brings the INDX system with induction, hopefully it will bump the maxtemp a little bit above the 300C zone.
For some of the more exotic materials you need a chamber than can get past 60C which the C1 can't. But then, I honestly I think anyone who needs to print a $500 plastic would have a suitable printer to match.
RE: Core One L launch
It doesn't have to be pre-announced, they could have announced both at the same time, it's not like they are dramatically different machines. But let's say you're right in your assessment and 1/3 of Core One buyers are now disappointed. Looking at this thread we see 3 posts indicating that you may be correct. The other customers/posters are debating technical solutions and whatnot, they are probably then ones who haven't yet bought a Core One and looking to buy the L.
Returning to the point about marketing, I still get the feeling that... I mean come on... naming a product "L" on purpose?
Not to be rude but.. What my printer is capable of or not is irrelevant since the value it has for me personally is linked to what compromises and the thought process that went into me selecting a printer, and from that perspective the value of my printer just went down significantly.
Yes I can still print larger stuff on my Creatbot F430 and the quality is often comparable or better, but I was interested in getting a new printer and hopping on the Prusa fanboy train. Now a few months in it feels like the ride is a lot more bumpy than advertised.
Thank you, it's good to know the printers hold value, I wasn't aware of that and perhaps selling it could make for a graceful exit. And perhaps I am the only one among the unhappy 1/3 that won't come back for a Core Two, but somehow I doubt it.
As a manufacturer pre-announcing product is mostly a great way to kill your sales and give your competition more time to respond, and heaven help you if you hit unexpected delays. If you figure 1/3 of core one buyers would have waited for an L (I might have) and you pre-announce three months, you have just wiped out one full month's worth of Core One sales. Even if you take pre-orders and can fulfill all of them on the launch date (big If) that is a lot of risk and delayed cashflow to work through.
And on top of that, you will have customers who bought on day 91-180 before the release mad that you didn't pre-announce it sooner for them.
In the end your printer is capable of everything it was one week ago and if you really want there is always the option to sell it since these seem to hold their value fairly well. I'm not saying I don't sympathize but Prusa has to be a business first or else we will be talking about them in the past tense.