RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
If I take it at face value that the motor needs to stall out in order to sense it is at the end, it can be done slowly... You don't have to just hit a wall at mach 5.
No, the "StallGuard" detection in the Trinamic driver chips does not work well at slow speeds. So I can understand the need for a bump. But why so many of them?!
Ok, maybe the "4 bumps either side" are considered necessary for averaging, to obtain the required accuracy to resume a print at exactly the same layer position after a power outage. But under what conditions can this averaging "fail" and require even more repeats? and more? and more...? It seems likely to me that we are seeing the effect of a poor software implementation here.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
If I take it at face value that the motor needs to stall out in order to sense it is at the end, it can be done slowly... You don't have to just hit a wall at mach 5.
No, the "StallGuard" detection in the Trinamic driver chips does not work well at slow speeds. So I can understand the need for a bump. But why so many of them?!
Ok, maybe the "4 bumps either side" are considered necessary for averaging, to obtain the required accuracy to resume a print at exactly the same layer position after a power outage. But under what conditions can this averaging "fail" and require even more repeats? and more? and more...? It seems likely to me that we are seeing the effect of a poor software implementation here.
I think it might be a 'perfection being the enemy of good'. Pursuing perfect positional accuracy at the expense of good enough.
Suspect it will come in a firmware update, but also thst it isn't a trivial issue to change. And also that there are bigger firmware fish to fry.
RE:
If I were within a 1/4" or so I would be happy. I don't think I will every print anything getting to the very harry edge of the print bed window. So if home was off a bit, oh well.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
Wanting to report back. After going through the belt tensioning exercises a couple of times more the problem seems to have almost disappeared for me for some days now. Still banging a little at each print start, but have not seen it as extensive as a in tue first days again. It it stays this way I can live with it, even though I would have appreciated a proactive info about this behavior instead of the existing message „can vibrate and be a little louder“ .
cheers
Magnus
RE:
One thing I found a little odd is that the printer needs to home just to unload the filament. I am not sure why that should matter.
For context I was putting it away for the night and shutting down. Not swapping it or starting a new print.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
In addition to confirming the X gantry is straight, I recommend printing one of these in PETG (0.15mm structural, 100% infill) to tighten the belts:
https://www.printables.com/model/1166964-prusa-mkxlminicore-6mm-belt-tensioner-6mm-merka-re
No matter what I tried I couldn't get the belt tuner app (or website) to work reliably. I used this printed tool and tightened both sides until both were in the middle of the min/max lines and haven't had a failed homing in days.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
For me it's not about waiting a few minutes for the print to start, that's not an issue at all - it's just the loud noise from the banging before it starts. As my printer is in the house, its very annoying for everyone around - and starting a print at night is a no go!
If I take it at face value that the motor needs to stall out in order to sense it is at the end, it can be done slowly... You don't have to just hit a wall at mach 5.
Maybe then it doesn't have to repeat a dozen times, even if your belt tension is not quite perfect.
I know you all want printers to run fast but I can seriously wait 2 minutes to start my print...
RE:
Sure, of course not knowing the hardware enough to assume that it can run slow, but if it must make contact with the outer wall I thought if it didn't hit it as hard maybe it would be more reliable and not as loud.
Apparently, that is not the case. It seems to me all of this crap could have been avoided with two very basic limit switches. I don't understand why they went this route other than to push the edge.
For me it's not about waiting a few minutes for the print to start, that's not an issue at all - it's just the loud noise from the banging before it starts. As my printer is in the house, its very annoying for everyone around - and starting a print at night is a no go!
If I take it at face value that the motor needs to stall out in order to sense it is at the end, it can be done slowly... You don't have to just hit a wall at mach 5.
Maybe then it doesn't have to repeat a dozen times, even if your belt tension is not quite perfect.
I know you all want printers to run fast but I can seriously wait 2 minutes to start my print...
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
This is what I learned from my first and second core one.
The banging is greatly affected by the squareness of the gantry.
Getting it square reduced the banging to 3-4 times vs 60 seconds full of banging. This is real data of one machine, not a huge pool of info, but support was on the same line of thought and agreed that a square gentry reduces it.
Squaring the gentry requires giving the side out of square a quick flex. Support can assist with this.
One piece of advice, release your belts fully to do this, makes it 100000000000 times easier. Not doing this will require some serious force and you will pop the belt adjuster (i did)
My machine went from Whole minute homing madness to absolutely almost no banging in comparison. Vfa have been reduced too on this machine, both belts at 85-86 hz respectfully.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
Apparently I'm gonna have to NOT rely on a t-Square to make sure things are squared up.. because, its still this constant 20-30seconds of BANG BANG BANG BANG... BANG BANG BANG BANG.
Between that incredibly loud, annoying sound, and what appears to be something rattling near the bottom (motors seem snugged), and this thing just comes across as a bit rackety. Think I'll wait a bit, before I convert the rest. This is just too obnoxious.
(Hoping the buzzing/rattling is a screw not fully tight, or something underneath the bottom plate. Checking this weekend)
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
BANG BANG BANG BANG... BANG BANG BANG BANG.
Sadly no idea about the buzzing, but about the banging:
Switch the printer on, then go to control - > Auto Home. This does the banging without the nozzle being heated up. If it bangs more than the normal ~6 times, there's a mechanical issue like squaring, belt tension etc.
If it works fine, you "simply" need to disable the nozzle heating before the homing and nozzle cleaning commands in the slicer: settings - printer - custom G-Code - Start G-Code - > search the forum for where to place the "M104 S0" commands.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
BANG BANG BANG BANG... BANG BANG BANG BANG.
Sadly no idea about the buzzing, but about the banging:
Switch the printer on, then go to control - > Auto Home. This does the banging without the nozzle being heated up. If it bangs more than the normal ~6 times, there's a mechanical issue like squaring, belt tension etc.
If it works fine, you "simply" need to disable the nozzle heating before the homing and nozzle cleaning commands in the slicer: settings - printer - custom G-Code - Start G-Code - > search the forum for where to place the "M104 S0" commands.
I actually got annoyed with it, this weekend, and completely went back to square one (no pun) and saw a post back in Feb, where they had another user use a wrench, to forcibly bend the brackets into 90 degree angles. After spending an hour or more, doing that, and then completely re-calibrating the belts.. the exact pattern has become 100% the same, with every print:
2 taps on X, 2 taps on Y.. 2 cycles of corner to corner taps (4 taps in each cycle).. and then it proceeds. Definitely better than the constant banging for 30s-3 mins, before it would eventually decide if it wanted to print or not.
Quality seems to be VERY slightly improved, with less ghosting, but obviously the same level of VFAs.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
I'm able to print 6mm belt tensioner using my second printer. However, I don't understand how to use it? Thanks in advance for your help!
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
I've had success using the app. Have you tried that first? I do not think I could trust a belt tensioner, too many variables that could be different in the material strenght, giving false reading. I would stick to the official approach.
As for using the gauge, not sure what yours does but these are usually inserted in the belt and as you tension it it makes the printed part shift up or down. They usually have a printed indicator of sorts. I find these to be a total gimmick but I could be wrong.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
It's unbelievable how much good things you hear about the reliability of Prusa CoreOne. Is someone paying them for that? After more than 3 years with Prusa, it was time for CoreOne and everything changed.
In the first 8 weeks, I replaced the XY motors, XY linear rail, XY bearings, belt tensioners, bought an accelerometer and used it. For 6 weeks, the printer stood idle and gathered dust. I've been trying to print for a week, and every day the noises, squeaks and knocks are becoming more and more irritating. Hours spent looking for solutions, hours spent with technical support, days spent disassembling and reassembling the device and replacing components. I won't mention the costs, because I just wanted to be able to print.
I built a special stable table with a special top! All this to eliminate the buzzing and knocking noises produced by this printer.
Here, it is not so noticeable, believe me:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pVxZuwVNLMkEwgqd6
The only good thing that happened was the decision, made out of frustration, to buy an H2D for the company. I feel a little ashamed because I'm changing teams, and I don't like that.
Today, something just snapped in me. I put the printer up for sale and will order another Bambu for private use. They just work! They print, they are stable, and compared to Prusa, you could say they don't make any noise! Even the build quality is incomparable.
I regret to say that in this comparison in my opinion, CoreOne comes across as a cheap Chinese toy.
I found hundreds of people who have problems, and Joseph is handing out sweets in rankings for modifications that should be part of this expensive device when you buy it.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
I regret to say that in this comparison in my opinion, CoreOne comes across as a cheap Chinese toy.
I found hundreds of people who have problems, and Joseph is handing out sweets in rankings for modifications that should be part of this expensive device when you buy it.
A friend of mine just bought an H2S on recommendation from his colleague. He's a beginner so I went over to his place to help him set it up. My thoughts are... Wow. The H2S worked straight out-of-the-box and everything about it is just better. The included features, the build, frankly everything. The Core One plus the MMU is around the same price. But what a difference. After using the H2S for a few hours, when I came home and turned on my C1 it's as if I just traded in my Tesla for a rusted out VW Kombi. My Core One is functioning well at this point but I'm starting to get annoyed that the hot end only reaches 290, the chamber only 55 and is not actively heated, the BuddyCam doesn't have AI detection etc etc etc.
The reason I went the Core One route is that I already had a MK4S and for (another) $450 I could have the Core One. I did really enjoy building my kit but not so much the 6 weeks of tweaking to get it to work.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
I suppose that Prusa tried to compete in pricing with the "Asian tigers" and that's quite impossible for an European manufacturer. If they released a well designed Core XY printer built with high quality components it would cost possibly twice as much as the current Core One. Anybody with some experience on Core XY printers, will see at once that the Core One isn't precisely a Voron, to put it mildly..
RE:
I suppose that Prusa tried to compete in pricing with the "Asian tigers" and that's quite impossible for an European manufacturer. If they released a well designed Core XY printer built with high quality components it would cost possibly twice as much as the current Core One. Anybody with some experience on Core XY printers, will see at once that the Core One isn't precisely a Voron, to put it mildly..
The Asia vs the rest-of-the-world debate (for me) is kind of moot. I just want the best value and most features for my money at this point and I really don't care where it comes from. I had zero problem paying 3x more for the MK4 than the Ender 3 it replaced because Prusa was leaps ahead of Creality in terms of, well... everything. The Ender hardware was crap, support was crap.
Fast-forward just a couple of years later and it's changed. Prusa support is still better than everyone else (except now maybe BL). But now, what is it I'm paying a premium for? Stellar service but a mediocre printer? An open source system that's not locked down? I'm not sure the Prusa premium is still worth same as 2-3 years ago.
RE: New user: Core One "Banging" Advice
I suppose that Prusa tried to compete in pricing with the "Asian tigers" and that's quite impossible for an European manufacturer. If they released a well designed Core XY printer built with high quality components it would cost possibly twice as much as the current Core One. Anybody with some experience on Core XY printers, will see at once that the Core One isn't precisely a Voron, to put it mildly..
The Asia vs the rest-of-the-world debate (for me) is kind of moot. I just want the best value and most features for my money at this point and I really don't care where it comes from. I had zero problem paying 3x more for the MK4 than the Ender 3 it replaced because Prusa was leaps ahead of Creality in terms of, well... everything. The Ender hardware was crap, support was crap.
Fast-forward just a couple of years later and it's changed. Prusa support is still better than everyone else (except now maybe BL). But now, what is it I'm paying a premium for? Stellar service but a mediocre printer? An open source system that's not locked down? I'm not sure the Prusa premium is still worth same as 2-3 years ago.
Just to clarify! I'm not talking about Asia at all. Because it's irrelevant here. I was referring to Chinese toys. I live in Europe, and if something is poorly made and imprecise, we often call it a Chinese toy. You know, the kind of toys you can buy in a shop for €1 😉
For over three years, I was a fan of Prusa... Unfortunately, over the last two years, Bambu Lab has been quietly developing its products, improving its solutions, introducing innovations, and that is why it has taken the lead. Where does this conviction come from? Below are two videos showing a printer taken out of the box, which calibrated itself, and a Prusa, which took seven weeks of calibration, part replacement and tweaking to end up printing like this again.
Don't get me wrong, but for someone who needs to print rather than spend time tweaking, it's a huge difference, and it's easier to turn love into hate than the other way around.
Here you can hear and see difference:
CoreOne / working total time ~ 100 hours
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tmGujFa1c1We63JJ6
H2d / working total time ~ 180 hours / straight out the box!!!