RE:
They do not complete a batch and then stop to ship everything out.
They could have completed assembling batch 3, but already be assembling batch 4 or 5 before all of 3 even make it out the door. Remember, after assembly comes packing and logistics.
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Shipping dates
If you read this: https://www.prusa3d.com/page/about-us_77/
"900 employees, around 10,000 printers shipped every month."
With 20 working days per month, that’s about 500 printers per day. But that’s not 500 Core Ones—they are still producing their other printers. It’s also a mix between kit and assembled printers, regardless of the model. And it’s definitely not 900 employees working solely on the Core One either.
It’s hard to satisfy everyone, but they chose transparency when they announced the Core One very early and shared deadlines that people can interpret differently. They were probably surprised by the number of orders. Even though I agree with you about adding new batch numbers to the list without updating the previous batch’s date, maybe they are a little late but expect to "catch the train."
It was 10k printers a month a year ago. And last year Prusa grew by 25% and hired more people so they have more than 1000 employees now and much bigger production. In some interview from the beginning of the year they said they recently hired almost 100 people just for Core One assemblies. Core Ones probably raised total demand for Prusa Printers while also lowered demand for MK4S. So some production capacities has shifted to Core Ones. Disassembly video of Core One showed many smart choices like usage of nylon rivets which speeds up production. Based on assembly times of MK4S I think it's safe to assume that one worker can assemble at least 2 Core Ones a day, somewhere between 2 and 3, more likely up to 3. So for 1000 Core Ones a day it's like less than 400 people assembling them. Which I think is plausible right now when there is a huge queue of preorders from last year and it's production priority.
RE: Shipping dates
Ordered Dec 1 2024......... Batch 3. Shipping label updated today. So, more or less they are like a week behind schedule.
RE:
It's just not good. At Prusa, you pay when you order. That means the money is gone and you wait forever for your goods...
That is simply not true. You can get your money back at any time. No one has ever waited forever and your money is not gone.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Shipping dates
It's just not good. At Prusa, you pay when you order. That means the money is gone and you wait forever for your goods...
That is simply not true. You can get your money back at any time. No one has ever waited forever and your money is not gone.
Well, the money is not gone in the sense of "kiss it goodbye, you'll never get it back". But it is gone in the sense of "it is no longer available to you, and nothing else of commensurate value is available to you either".
Prusa is requiring customers to give them an interest-free loan, over 3 months and more, without even guaranteeing a date for the delivery of the goods you pay for. I do consider that a pretty questionable business practice when dealing with consumers, and am not sure whether it is acceptable under European consumer protection laws.
Has anyone tried not to prepay an order right after placing it? For how long does Prusa allow it in the "unpaid" status before cancelling it? One could make a strong argument that it would be fair to leave the order unpaid until Prusa assigns a definite ship date to it, or until e.g. one week before that ship date.
RE: Shipping dates
The thing is, you go into this knowing that the machine comes when it's ready. You pay and wait. You don't want to wait, cancel the order and buy something else.
Being new to all this myself, I did find the way that Prusa works to be a little strange, not having the manual ready for the kits being one. But, if I wanted a printer within a week, I'd buy a Bambu. I don't, I want something that is going to be upgradable and tunable and just work with good after sales, so I made the decision to spend a little extra and go with a Prusa. If I think that at any time this isn't going to be for me, then I'll cancel my order and get my money back. It's all very transparent, and to be moaning about the fact that your printer isn't with you yet, is fine. But from what I've read, Prusa would rather delay and get it right than send out crap. Plus, if they have a massive influx of orders they weren't ready for, that contributes too.
It is what it is in my eyes, bottom line being if you're in a rush for a machine, don't expect one on launch day from Prusa, because everyone else will be too and the likely hood of you being in the front of the queue is slim.
RE: Shipping dates
Prusa is requiring customers to give them an interest-free loan, over 3 months and more, without even guaranteeing a date for the delivery of the goods you pay for.
This is completely false. They offered a pre-order on a product, just like a lot of other companies do. This keeps coming up and is completely totally false in many ways. It's like people have never ordered anything from a company that has a future release or even just shipping date. I keep saying it but many people (who appear to have a vendetta/agenda against Prusa) keep repeating the same fallacy. So I'll say it again THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON and it is NOT A LOAN.
One could make a strong argument that it would be fair to leave the order unpaid until Prusa assigns a definite ship date to it
Or one could just wait until it's not a pre-order product. But instead people keep coming here threatening to cancel, talking about nonsensical fallacies and talking nonsense like "interest free loans".
If you don't like pre-order products and paying for things in advance, don't buy it. It's that simple.
RE: Shipping dates
They offered a pre-order on a product, just like a lot of other companies do. This keeps coming up and is completely totally false in many ways. It's like people have never ordered anything from a company that has a future release or even just shipping date. I keep saying it but many people (who appear to have a vendetta/agenda against Prusa) keep repeating the same fallacy. So I'll say it again THIS IS NOT UNCOMMON and it is NOT A LOAN.
Actually I cannot recall a single other company in Europe which has offered pre-orders to consumers and wanted them paid in full, right away, with an uncertain lead time of multiple months. Would you have a few examples?
To be clear, I don't have any issue with the long (and even unclear) lead time. Pre-ordering is fine with me. Even a 10% down-payment to indicate that the order is serious is ok. It's the full pre-payment which I consider fishy.
Giving money to someone and receiving the consideration months later does constitute a loan. I can't imagine any other reason for Prusa running their product launches this way than the fact that it gives them an interest-free prefinancing of their material supply.
RE: Shipping dates
Don't forget that it is an entirely voluntary purchase agreement that you've entered into. There are other options, and decent ones that any of us could switch to if we chose. You also made the choice not to delay your order until after the rush. Also completely voluntary.
Should I be moaning because they switched the timeline between the kit and conversion kit, and I'll need to wait a bit longer? I suppose my outlook is one of gratitude for the opportunity to convert to a small, serviceable, enclosed Prusa. I waited quite a while for my Mk4, and the result has been completely worth the wait.
-J
RE: Shipping dates
Just in case anyone cares because I was sorta trippin about the status of the core one I purchased on the 7th of feb because it said shipping date TBA for awhile but now just today the status switched to shipping in April.
RE: Shipping dates
And do you then speak of a assembled Core One or the kit version?
As I just looked, and I or to be precise my dad surprised me with a kit order on February 8th. That on the order page still says TBA and on the general Core One page it still says that for kits "The estimated start of shipping is now set for March 2025" and for fully assembled new orders ship in April.
RE: Shipping dates
Just in case anyone cares because I was sorta trippin about the status of the core one I purchased on the 7th of feb because it said shipping date TBA for awhile but now just today the status switched to shipping in April.
Did you buy a kit, or built?
RE: Shipping dates
Posted by: @jurgen-7
It's just not good. At Prusa, you pay when you order. That means the money is gone and you wait forever for your goods...
That is simply not true. You can get your money back at any time. No one has ever waited forever and your money is not gone.
Well, the money is not gone in the sense of "kiss it goodbye, you'll never get it back". But it is gone in the sense of "it is no longer available to you, and nothing else of commensurate value is available to you either".
Prusa is requiring customers to give them an interest-free loan, over 3 months and more, without even guaranteeing a date for the delivery of the goods you pay for. I do consider that a pretty questionable business practice when dealing with consumers, and am not sure whether it is acceptable under European consumer protection laws.
Has anyone tried not to prepay an order right after placing it? For how long does Prusa allow it in the "unpaid" status before cancelling it? One could make a strong argument that it would be fair to leave the order unpaid until Prusa assigns a definite ship date to it, or until e.g. one week before that ship date.
I don't care about Europe's laws or your or his or even your expectations. This is Prusa's business model, and it is stated up front that it is a preorder. People purchase a printer, and it is stated up front that it is a preorder. It is much better today than when I ordered my Mk3. They give you a predicted delivery date, and usually, they are pretty close, if not sooner. If you do not want to pay full price and wait, don't preorder.
Posted by: @jurgen-7
Actually I cannot recall a single other company in Europe which has offered pre-orders to consumers and wanted them paid in full, right away, with an uncertain lead time of multiple months. Would you have a few examples?
To be clear, I don't have any issue with the long (and even unclear) lead time. Pre-ordering is fine with me. Even a 10% down-payment to indicate that the order is serious is ok. It's the full pre-payment which I consider fishy.
Nothing fishy. It is stated upfront and clearly when you place your order as long as you read it. It is a not uncommon practice for new products worldwide, and it is more common with small companies with new products. I am not in Europe, so I will name another company that announced a product that will be sold in Europe. Elegoo announced their Centauri Carbon - full price and Preorder. You pay in February for a ship date in May. Now, they are shipping into June.
Posted by: @teamd3dp
Don't forget that it is an entirely voluntary purchase agreement that you've entered into. There are other options, and decent ones that any of us could switch to if we chose. You also made the choice not to delay your order until after the rush. Also completely voluntary.
This is the key point. It is voluntary, and I agree with you; if you mind waiting, don't order in the preorder phase.
European Protection Laws? It is hard to enforce on another country and their businesses. But most require:
- 14-day cancellation right for online sales - Prusa meets this requirement
- Full price transparency before purchase - it is there if you read
- Deposit protection and refund rules apply - they do refund
- Terms and conditions must be displayed - It is there
Prusa is compliant with most of the rules.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Shipping dates
It's great that Prusa has such loyal, long-standing customers. But I don't think it will help Prusa in the long run if your conclusion is that everything Prusa does is great and any criticism is ungrateful.
I want Prusa to be successful. I want them to still be around 10 years from now -- which, among other things, will require that they win over new customers. They won't be able to survive in the long run by catering only to a gradually dwindling subset of the loyal, long-standing customer base.
Prusa is no longer the innovation leader in the home 3D printing market. They are arguably no longer the company which makes it easiest for hobby users to obtain good-quality prints. They do continue to get (and deserve) credit for manufacturing in Europe and running an open, no-lock-in business model. And they can still differentiate by
- launching well thought-out, stable, polished products,
- providing top-notch customer support,
- and a customer-friendly business model.
Their score on the last three bullets could be better. I can't see how pointing that out and encouraging to do better is ungrateful or illoyal.
Coming back specifically to the "full pre-payment" requirement: Why?! The financial benefit to Prusa must be very limited. Assuming that they have a good credit score with their bank, getting a 3-month interest-free credit line from their customer can only be worth on the order of 1% of the pre-paid amount. Is that worth alienating a share of their potential customers, especially among those who are not long-standing Prusa fans?
For those of you not based in Europe, I can see that there may be some aspect of cultural differences. Consumer protection laws are very strict here. Prusa's full pre-payment requirement may be legal, but it is very uncommon here and, believe it or not, does smell wrong from our perspective. (Elegoo is not a relevant example since they seem to be selling directly from overseas, without any legal presence in Europe. Few people will order direct from them, since no consumer protection applies at all.) Prusa has that "European company" strength, and they should play it properly -- also by offering and billing their products like all customer-friendly European companies do.
RE: Shipping dates
Ive always felt Prusa should collect a deposit, and at the same time perform a check on the payment method to confirm funds.
This is not uncommon - other places I've ordered from do a check to ensure funds are accessible, and then automatically bill the full amount when the item is actually dispatched - Amazon is a prime example. I can place an order, I see a 'pending' payment on my card for a day or two, which then disappears, and then I am automatically billed the full amount when the item is actually dispatched.
This is exactly how Prusa should run. Although I'm unsure of the administration etc behind this system.....
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - MMU3 - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Shipping dates
It's great that Prusa has such loyal, long-standing customers. But I don't think it will help Prusa in the long run if your conclusion is that everything Prusa does is great and any criticism is ungrateful.
I did not say that. I am saying that the guy above was false and blatantly inflammatory. I get upset when my printers are delayed or take longer, but I understand things happen and would rather have a quality printer and a solvent company that provides support.
I have no issue with criticism, but to say that it is fishy or crooked is wrong. They put their business rules out there, and if people can't live with them, why do they order?
Prusa's business practices are legal, or the EU would crack down on them like it did with Apple. France and Germany have tighter protection laws, but that does not mean they can enforce them on Czech.
I would still argue they run a circle around all other printer producers in launching well-thought-out, polished products and providing top-notch customer support. My experiences with Bambu have been somewhat rocky when I have an issue. That being said, they are rare, but the same can be said of Prusa. When I have a problem with Prusa, it is fixed with the chat function on the shop within minutes to an hour, including if I want a refund. Bambu does not have that level of support in my book.
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: Shipping dates
Pre-ordering a new Prusa printer on its initial production run and having to wait is normal. Prusa did not take your money. You paid them and you knew that meant waiting. So here we are, waiting. Yes, I too am eager to see a tracking number for my order. I trust the Prusa team will deliver as soon as they are ready, or else I would not have pre-ordered. If you want to call me a fanboy for that perspective, I accept.
Maker of things
RE: Shipping dates
Exactly. Even apart from whether it's "normal" or anything like that, nobody forced anyone to place an order. Nor did Prusa pretend they'd ship you a printer and then didn't. The only criticism you could arguably have is that it's a bit lame to claim "the Core One will start shipping in January", only to end up shipping a very small number at the _very_ last moment on January 31 to technically not break that promise 😀. But then this is an improvement over previous product launches, so Yay Prusa! I've ordered a kit, and even though I'm currently checking the order page several times a day I'm more or less ready for a repeat of January and Prusa shipping the first kits only towards the end of the month. But I'd love to be proven wrong of course!
Pre-ordering a new Prusa printer on its initial production run and having to wait is normal. Prusa did not take your money. You paid them and you knew that meant waiting. So here we are, waiting. Yes, I too am eager to see a tracking number for my order. I trust the Prusa team will deliver as soon as they are ready, or else I would not have pre-ordered. If you want to call me a fanboy for that perspective, I accept.
RE: Shipping dates
Have all the printers from batch 3 now received their printers? And has anyone from batch 4 received their printer yet ?
RE: Shipping dates
I'm in batch 4 but the printer has not shipped yet. I guess it will ship next week.