RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Can't see it being released this year. Not by Prusa anyways.
Seems all the big 3D Print manufacturers are releasing details of multi-toolhead systems at the moment - but just that, teasers and minor details at this stage. We all know its coming, question is....when?!
Considering Prusa have experience with the XL, they should have had this cracked before the Core One was even released - instead we haven't even a good MMU solution, rather a previous gen MMU that's 'tacked on' and made to work with the Core One, irrespective of how 'messy' it looks. If Prusa had this cracked upon Core One release I could only imagine how much of the market they would have captured above the competition.....
Meanwhile Snapmaker U1 will be available in the next 3-6 months with 4 tool heads costing less than a base model C1. Competition is always a good thing in that it drives down prices and drives up innovation. I was considering the MMU but then multicolor is of no interest to me and multi-material with a single extruder is a no-go for me. I expect the INDX to be formally announced in November, pre-orders taken in January with delivery in June. I'm sure Prusa is looking forward to the 6m interest free loan.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I'm wondering ...
As far as I understand things; after an indx upgrade to the core one there will be (at least) a surplus nextruder. Isn't there some sort of parts list imaginable to build a printer around that?
Would be nice to have a second printer around for simple pla prints and such (or donate it to a makers lab)
Pea
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
The way I think I will setup my CoreOne INDX - or might go fully enclosed (see end of animation) - although I guess that might cause issues with keeping temps up etc.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I remember the first Mk3 teases; it took well over two years for the thing to be purchasable after Joe said it would be available very soon. Meanwhile Prusa had money from a lot of people who purchased in advance. I would not hold my breath for this new wiz-bang tool.
From Wiki: The first Prusa i3 was designed by Josef Průša in 2012, and was released as a commercial kit product in 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusa_i3
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I remember the first Mk3 teases; it took well over two years for the thing to be purchasable after Joe said it would be available very soon. Meanwhile Prusa had money from a lot of people who purchased in advance. I would not hold my breath for this new wiz-bang tool.
From Wiki: The first Prusa i3 was designed by Josef Průša in 2012, and was released as a commercial kit product in 2015.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prusa_i3
But then that was 10-13 years ago when there wasn't a lot of competition and printers where still (sort of) expensive. Things are changing rapidly and it would be business suicide for Prusa to announce a tool changer only to sit on it for even a year. The SnapMaker U1 is coming out end of this year with a 4 head changer that's half the price of a C1. Just to name one example.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
And it seems like the Bondtech kits will be available soonish, if the C1 upgrade is to far behind I’ll probably look at a voron kit with the INDX system.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I'm wondering ...
As far as I understand things; after an indx upgrade to the core one there will be (at least) a surplus nextruder. Isn't there some sort of parts list imaginable to build a printer around that?
Would be nice to have a second printer around for simple pla prints and such (or donate it to a makers lab)
Pea
Extruder value: maybe $100; printer parts to reuse said extruder: piece price around $1500. Prusa Mk4s kit: $750. Not sure there is any decision tree where that spare extruder is anything but a spare part.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Shouldn’t it be possible to take a mark three and take it to some kind of Mk 4 type status?
I'm wondering ...
As far as I understand things; after an indx upgrade to the core one there will be (at least) a surplus nextruder. Isn't there some sort of parts list imaginable to build a printer around that?
Would be nice to have a second printer around for simple pla prints and such (or donate it to a makers lab)
Pea
Extruder value: maybe $100; printer parts to reuse said extruder: piece price around $1500. Prusa Mk4s kit: $750. Not sure there is any decision tree where that spare extruder is anything but a spare part.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Shouldn’t it be possible to take a mark three and take it to some kind of Mk 4 type status?
Why ? A Mk3 is just fine as is. In some ways superior to a Mk4 (the Mk3 filament sensor detects stuck filament, for example). The Nextruder makes it a little bit easier to change nozzles (shrug). Somewhere in there Prusa also changed to higher res steppers. Again, if you upgraded any other printer, you'll still have usable left over parts.
Maybe add a $20 variable power supply, print a handle, and the Nextruder becomes a 3d printing pen?
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Changing nozzles is nice, but being able to swap one for another when things get gunned up and funky is even more important to keeping these online. But to me, the biggest advantage of the MK4 is the ability to swap material, nozzles and beds and not have to recalibrate the bed height. I have my mini's dialed in with PETG and satin sheets and I don't screw with them because they are tasked with printing a bunch of 30mmx30mmx30mm parts where bed adhesion is imperative. The Mk4 can change all three variables and just print. Plus, it gives me part swap ability with my XL5
Shouldn’t it be possible to take a mark three and take it to some kind of Mk 4 type status?
Why ? A Mk3 is just fine as is. In some ways superior to a Mk4 (the Mk3 filament sensor detects stuck filament, for example). The Nextruder makes it a little bit easier to change nozzles (shrug). Somewhere in there Prusa also changed to higher res steppers. Again, if you upgraded any other printer, you'll still have usable left over parts.
Maybe add a $20 variable power supply, print a handle, and the Nextruder becomes a 3d printing pen?
RE:
I run my Mk3 without doing anything but keeping the sheet clean; I print mostly PLA and PETG, and use PC-CF on occasion, and I hate the smell of ABS/ASA so avoid them like the plague they are - swapping without changing anything but the Slicer filament type. I change sheets without changing anything except selecting the sheet number on the printer before I print with it. I never need to swap nozzles, my solid tungsten carbide nozzle prints everything better than the brass nozzle and has never "gunked up". And changing the Mk3 nozzle only requires a small wrench and hex driver, something you have to use with the Nextruder, too.
I still print with my Mk3 when I want a finished high quality print first time; the Core One is unreliable in this regard, even simple thing are a struggle, like using scarf joints. It took six tests to get them to be half as good as the Mk3 did without any tweaks. So one print to success vs three attempts... is the Mk4 or CoreOne really any faster?
The Mk3 is slow ... but it can start a print within a few seconds where the Core One takes minutes and often fails due to "dirty nozzle", print fan not spinning (error while the fan is running, no less), crashing due to belt static (sort of fixed), and waiting for the heat to absorb. Or the worst one, I selected the file to print and came back 30 minutes later to find the printer waiting for me to click "OK" ... I have the ability to cancel a print if I select the wrong one. Why on Earth should I have to click buttons twice to do a simple selection.
Eventually Prusa will get the CoreOne dialed in (I hope), but right now it's still a prototype in beta testing.
Changing nozzles is nice, but being able to swap one for another when things get gunned up and funky is even more important to keeping these online. But to me, the biggest advantage of the MK4 is the ability to swap material, nozzles and beds and not have to recalibrate the bed height. I have my mini's dialed in with PETG and satin sheets and I don't screw with them because they are tasked with printing a bunch of 30mmx30mmx30mm parts where bed adhesion is imperative. The Mk4 can change all three variables and just print. Plus, it gives me part swap ability with my XL5
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
For me, if the INDX isn't announced as available this year, I'll probably end up selling the Core One and getting a SnapMaker U1. My printer has finally settled down after building it the first week of July (which was 2 months ago). However, tired of being a beta tester. Feels like Prusa rushed this out to prevent themselves from becoming irrelevant. Also, I think Prusa should have release the Core One with an additional extruder option. MMU3 seems like a PITA and it still is not the right solution for multi-material.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Yeah, I have to agree... If Prusa doesn't get the upgraded multi-nozzle out quickly, I'll likely sell my Core One.
The MMU3 IS a PITA to setup, and I needed to setup the CoreBoxx to get it to be practical.
On one had, the open nature of Prusa is great, on the other, they are behind the curve. The H2D is very impressive, and the Core One does not just print fantastically out of the box, or at least that hasn't been the case from the beginning. So, again, it does feel like you made an accurate statement that we are all beta testers...
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
The Core One spool holder drybox solution was mentioned in a blog post in January. It was stated it would be released around April/May.
Nothing.
The Core One 'Next Gen' MMU solution was mentioned several months back considering the MMU3 solution is a tacke don - rather ugly - afterthought thats too 'messy' to implement.
Nothing.
A pattern seems to be developing here.
Now a new INDX system has been teased. but nothing mentioned. I very much doubt this will come any time this year TBH.
Yet the competition have spool management/drybox/storage solutions all in place. They are pushing ahead with dual nozzle designs, extruder heads that can be changed for lasers, all kinds of developments. And these systems work. In fact, they seem to work really, really well. I've personally started using my H2D a hell of a lot more then my Core One. I've been hanging on to my Core One waiting for this next gen MMU solution, as well as the ironing out of 'teething problems', but I'm fast losing patience. After seeing what I can do with my H2D - the fact that it 'just works' straight out of the box - it's clear Prusa really do need to do something really special to keep up, not just with Bambu, but with other manufacturers too, who all continue to innovate and develop.
If Prusa continue with their poor road map alongside their existing poor comms, I fear they will head down the same route as GoPro have. The competition will be so far ahead they'll leave Prusa for dust.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
You have valid points, but imo the next gen solution for the mmu is the INDX system.You're right in that they really do seem to have fallen behind.
The Core One spool holder drybox solution was mentioned in a blog post in January. It was stated it would be released around April/May.
Nothing.
The Core One 'Next Gen' MMU solution was mentioned several months back considering the MMU3 solution is a tacke don - rather ugly - afterthought thats too 'messy' to implement.
Nothing.
A pattern seems to be developing here.
Now a new INDX system has been teased. but nothing mentioned. I very much doubt this will come any time this year TBH.
Yet the competition have spool management/drybox/storage solutions all in place. They are pushing ahead with dual nozzle designs, extruder heads that can be changed for lasers, all kinds of developments. And these systems work. In fact, they seem to work really, really well. I've personally started using my H2D a hell of a lot more then my Core One. I've been hanging on to my Core One waiting for this next gen MMU solution, as well as the ironing out of 'teething problems', but I'm fast losing patience. After seeing what I can do with my H2D - the fact that it 'just works' straight out of the box - it's clear Prusa really do need to do something really special to keep up, not just with Bambu, but with other manufacturers too, who all continue to innovate and develop.
If Prusa continue with their poor road map alongside their existing poor comms, I fear they will head down the same route as GoPro have. The competition will be so far ahead they'll leave Prusa for dust.
RE:
I feel you are too grumpy guys, its unreasonable to expect a European company with limited resources and high operating costs to compete on that level with the Chinese...
It is historically proven than when they set their minds on something tech related, the Chinese will reverse engineer and have a huge head start to innovate...
I think Prusa is doing its best to stay in the game, and they will imo. I didn't buy the CoreOne because it was the most high end machine around, nor the cheaper...
I guess you didn't either, so we all gave our hard earned money to Prusa for the things we know are good about them, this machine is only going to be better in the many years to come. Can you say with confidence the same about the Bamboo's and Snapmakers of the world?
Anyway, on topic, its great to have the INDX in the making and it shows me that the company is working in the right direction.
RE:
I like the Prusa vibe. I like building my own printer from scratch. But now I feel like I don't have what I need to move forward with the type of work I want to do I'll need to look elsewhere. I have my eye on the SnapMaker UI and yes it's going to be buggy as hell when it first hits the streets. But 6 months after that if Prusa doesn't have a tool changer ready then I will definitely jump ship.
TLDR:
All this depends on what kind of hobbyist you are. My opinion is there are three types, those who like to build, tinker, print a few things off thingiverse or printables then the printer collects dust in the corner (an ornament), people who use the printer to print their own designs (a utility) and those who like to build tinker and design things. For me, I started off in the first category with an Ender 3 and quickly got frustrated with it. Decided to step up and get a replacement. Choice for me then was Bambu X1 or Prusa MK4. I was still in the "build it and then collect dust" category however all my friends were telling me: "The Bambu is way better" On the other hand I really enjoyed building the MK4 but then after printing my 50th fidget toy, it went into the corner. Then the MK4S upgrade came out, built it, fidget toys, corner. Core One kit.. another very enjoyable build (except all the bugs afterwards). So I guess in this case my choice was Prusa because I didn't want to build a Voron and get stuck or pulling a fully assembled printer out of the box was going to be a waste of money because after N prints of tsatskis and fidget toys it too would go in the corner.
But now I'm thinking: "I just sunk in all this money for was is essentially a 3rd printer so why don't I really learn how to use it?" Now I'm designing my own things with OpenSCAD and now FreeCad. Now I realize "Man, I really wish the CoreOne had another toolhead. Why is belt tuning so hard? Why is it so hard and tedious now to do a mult-material print? How come I have to pay extra for a camera that barely works? Why doesn't the camera detect spaghetti monsters and stop the print? So now my printer is a utility and not an ornament and I'm questioning my choice.
Had I gone in this from the beginning (this year) as a designer? I'd probably be working with a Bambu H2S instead.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I got a massive discount on an H2D after I got the Core One.... and the difference is increadible. That said, the Core One does "just work," for alot of stuff and you don't need to deal with the Bambu "use only our stuff" closed system.
However, the H2D is fantastic so far... I've got 10 filament storage... two of them single HT AMS units... etc. etc.
I have run into the PITA aspect of the printer and their software ALWAYS trying to phone home. The other day, for example, I tried to get the printer to download something from MakerWorld... only to find that I couldn't connect to my H2D from the local PC. I kept getting these unexplained connection errors. Turned out, if the Bambu slicer is connected to MakerWorld you can not connect to the printer from the PC using the slicer directly to the printer (on the same subnet)! Everything attempts to phone home, to the point that I've had to block the printer at the boarder firewall from connecting to anything .bambulab.com!
Prusa may have it's issues, such as the highly hinky MMU3 implementation for the Core One (if it weren't for CoreBoxx...), but at least they are moving forward and not trying to prevent us from playing with our printers, modding, etc.
I really want the Indx. Time will tell if the Bambu wins the day or Prusa makes my Core One right.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
The Core One spool holder drybox solution was mentioned in a blog post in January. It was stated it would be released around April/May.
Nothing.
The Core One 'Next Gen' MMU solution was mentioned several months back considering the MMU3 solution is a tacke don - rather ugly - afterthought thats too 'messy' to implement.
Nothing.
A pattern seems to be developing here.
Now a new INDX system has been teased. but nothing mentioned. I very much doubt this will come any time this year TBH.
Yet the competition have spool management/drybox/storage solutions all in place.
Good point about the dry box - but I don't see how we're going to get an AMS like system with INDX - unless they implement a device for every individual spool (5-7?) to have its own motorized feeder (would be nice, just not expecting that). Maybe a third party? But yeah even a polished looking injected molded hunk of plastic that you manually feed spools out of would be an improvement.
I agree that Prusa needs some interesting features, now that they at least have the CORE One basics in place. I wonder how close they are to Jo's rumored custom linear motors (sure the Magneto X has them, but it seems like they lack Prusa-sized dev, support, and testing). Those plus factory installed INDX could make a pretty unique offering vs. their competition.