RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I hope you're right; from some pictures I've seen, they look printed.
It would be nice if the head switches used for the INDX were carbon fiber; it looks as if they are just printed black.
They are probably injection molded or machined parts. I don't think BondTech are going to use FDM printed parts for this.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
It would nicer if they were carbon fiber, I wonder if you can print these parts yourself as well from what is included in what you buy ?
It would be nice if the head switches used for the INDX were carbon fiber; it looks as if they are just printed black.
They are probably injection molded or machined parts. I don't think BondTech are going to use FDM printed parts for this.
Olaf confirmed the production parts will be SLS printed, they have an SLS print farm at Bondtech.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
It would nicer if they were carbon fiber, I wonder if you can print these parts yourself as well from what is included in what you buy ?
It would be nice if the head switches used for the INDX were carbon fiber; it looks as if they are just printed black.
They are probably injection molded or machined parts. I don't think BondTech are going to use FDM printed parts for this.
Olaf confirmed the production parts will be SLS printed, they have an SLS print farm at Bondtech.
They’ll probably be SLS printed CF Nylon is my guess.
Not sure what they’ll release in the way of CAD, there’s already a simplified step file of the toolhead and nozzle on their GitHub. They won’t give too much away as it’ll just encourage knock-offs.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I hope I can print or they give carbon fiber. One thing is for sure INDX is better then Bambu's Vortex. 😉
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Yes it's certainly looking that way. I do prefer the INDX system over the Vortex - it seems more of a 'true' tool changing system, and much faster too.
I hope I can print or they give carbon fiber. One thing is for sure INDX is better then Bambu's Vortex. 😉
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Faster is it. If I recall; INDX is 15 seconds; Vortex is 18 seconds or 18.5.
Yes it's certainly looking that way. I do prefer the INDX system over the Vortex - it seems more of a 'true' tool changing system, and much faster too.
I hope I can print or they give carbon fiber. One thing is for sure INDX is better then Bambu's Vortex. 😉
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Prusa still plans to come down to 10 seconds Vortex needs as far as I know about 40-45 seconds so 3 times the current
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Yes, I think someone said the goal is 8s, but 10 is easily achievable.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
When I saw the design of Vortex, I knew it was a very strange design. I'm sure Bambu is going to try to think of a better solution now they know they created a ridiculous design. Prusa has to make sure they take this design and only enhance it, in particular with speed.
Prusa still plans to come down to 10 seconds Vortex needs as far as I know about 40-45 seconds so 3 times the current
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
Since Bondtech has patent rights, it will not be so easy for Bambu.
I don't like the Vortex system anyway!
With Bondtech, Prusa now has a very good partner. Especially since the Core L with index will hardly be much more expensive than an H2C
When I saw the design of Vortex, I knew it was a very strange design. I'm sure Bambu is going to try to think of a better solution now they know they created a ridiculous design. Prusa has to make sure they take this design and only enhance it, in particular with speed.
Prusa still plans to come down to 10 seconds Vortex needs as far as I know about 40-45 seconds so 3 times the current
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
an L with 8 tools should be less expensive than a "full" Vortek system, which watns 7 nozzles and a second AMS unit to really take advantage of it. Add the filtration unit to the L and it's still a bit less (at least judging by the INDX founder's price). ~$2600 vs $2900. YMMV with shipping & taxes & all that though.
Sure the H2C still has a list of things it does that the L doesn't (more filament path sensors, auto calibration), but it looks overall like the inferior multi material solution once you hit "print".
Since Bondtech has patent rights, it will not be so easy for Bambu.
I don't like the Vortex system anyway!
With Bondtech, Prusa now has a very good partner. Especially since the Core L with index will hardly be much more expensive than an H2C
When I saw the design of Vortex, I knew it was a very strange design. I'm sure Bambu is going to try to think of a better solution now they know they created a ridiculous design. Prusa has to make sure they take this design and only enhance it, in particular with speed.
Prusa still plans to come down to 10 seconds Vortex needs as far as I know about 40-45 seconds so 3 times the current
RE:
It's interesting why Prusa hasn't gone this route. They can produce the Core One parts with SLS PA faster, get much better tolerances and still provide the STL's in case one needs a quick replacement part.
It's certainly more efficient when the production time is a function of number of layers as opposed to build volume and you get much better quality parts.
I guess maybe having a FormLabs SLS printer in a Prusa production factory is an anathema to them.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
@darksharpie
part of the problem is that Bambu products just seem to work and are set up for the masses whereas Prusa is still trying to build a new ecosystem.
there’s no doubt in my mind that INDX will make a huge difference… But Prusia doesn’t have AMS units, nor does it have decent filament storage in general. It will certainly be kind of irritating to have to slap a dry boxes on the side of my printer to get fundamentally the same functionality The H2 D has right now and which is greatly improved with the H2C.
yeah, the vortex system may be inferior, but it’s still a nice improvement… And it will be very easy to use and consume for the majority of people out there.
Also, it will probably solve being able to print with different size nozzles… Which makes it a decent solution in between
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I will probably just use 1-2 existing filament spool/dry boxes so the solution will look very much like Bambu lab's on that end. Obviously it won't be motorized feeding.
I agree Bambu Lab has a decent history when it comes to "just working'. Let's see if their latest additional layer of complexity on top of dual nozzle on top of multiple AMS units maintains that reputation. But even at its best it only solves half of the problem(s) of multicolor so it's nice to see Prusa having real competition here. I just wish it weren't months away.
@darksharpie
part of the problem is that Bambu products just seem to work and are set up for the masses whereas Prusa is still trying to build a new ecosystem.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I have to agree. Prusa has some areas it needs to improve, but in general, the L with the INDX will be superior to the Vortex and will come in cheaper. I hope they come out with a box filament changer. The MMU is just not good enough.
an L with 8 tools should be less expensive than a "full" Vortek system, which watns 7 nozzles and a second AMS unit to really take advantage of it. Add the filtration unit to the L and it's still a bit less (at least judging by the INDX founder's price). ~$2600 vs $2900. YMMV with shipping & taxes & all that though.
Sure the H2C still has a list of things it does that the L doesn't (more filament path sensors, auto calibration), but it looks overall like the inferior multi material solution once you hit "print".
Since Bondtech has patent rights, it will not be so easy for Bambu.
I don't like the Vortex system anyway!
With Bondtech, Prusa now has a very good partner. Especially since the Core L with index will hardly be much more expensive than an H2C
When I saw the design of Vortex, I knew it was a very strange design. I'm sure Bambu is going to try to think of a better solution now they know they created a ridiculous design. Prusa has to make sure they take this design and only enhance it, in particular with speed.
Prusa still plans to come down to 10 seconds Vortex needs as far as I know about 40-45 seconds so 3 times the current
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Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
@darksharpie I have to agree with you…
@cwbullet yeah, I am really unimpressed with MMU3… it might work if I was not using a different filament management solution than the OEM… but the OEM solution is just so awful compared to the Bambu ams2 system that is not even in the same ballpark. INDX is something that I’m seriously considering even though I’ve also seriously been considering selling my core one. But I do think they’re multi material solution with INDX will be a hell of a lot better, except for the fact that I will absolutely have to wait six months to a year for them to get everything fixed because there’s no way I believe that it’ll be fine out of the gate. I have a lot more faith that bambu will likely be a little bit more mature when they roll it out.
without a doubt, the MMU3 is a afterthought as opposed to a good solution… and especially if you want to be printing with anything other than PLA or PETG.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I doubt there will be any box filament storage solution. It's not needed as the spools do not need to rewind with the INDX system - they still only turn in one direction at all times since filament is not ejected like they are with the Vortek system. The main benefit with the Vortek system is it can be used with more filaments/colours and is not limited to the number of toolheads like the INDX, since it rewinds filaments - hence why it needs the AMS box storage solution to rewind filament, and hence why its more time consuming. So swings and roundabouts I guess.
Nevertheless, Prusa have already released their spool storage solution - the USS dry boxes that slap onto the sides of the printer. In my opinion this is ugly. I do not have the space for it since my printer is by a wall, and nor would I want it this way anyways. Prusa seems to have this thing whereby they want a complete self contained unit - everything in, or on, the one box, without a separate attachment. Not sure why they keep going for this. I have shelves above my printer so if I did upgrade with INDX I would use my own current dry boxes (the cereal container solution) on the shelf above the printer, and feeding down to the toolheads directly. Just need to move the shelves up a bit - luckily they are adjustable.....It's how I work with my Core One at the moment......
The BambuLab setups are completely different with their AMS. They take up the same space I guess, but just feel neater. You see my current external humidity level in the top corner below (its in an outbuilding with a washer/dryer close by) - hence why I like to have a spool storage solution full of desiccant! lol
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
@iftibashir It's like we're twins, separated at birth... 😉 Yeah, those are exactly my thoughts as well.
I guess the one thing I'd like to have with an INDX updated Core One would be the ability to merge multiple spools for a single nozzle. This would be VERY important if you have a Core One L, which implies you're going to print large multi-day prints... and you'll want to feed multiple spools. Sure, you can just have two nozzles with the same filament... but if you were doing lot's of multiple color work... I dunno.
I did a job on the H2D that took 3 days an used 3 spools... and it just ran without any concerns. Moreover, I used most of the filament and didn't waste anything like what the Core One current does when a spool clears the first sensor and it noted as empty by the printer.
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I think that "necessary" depends on the individual and their usage of printer and filament. I have moved to the polydryer box. These boxes will dry filament and keep it dry.
I doubt there will be any box filament storage solution. It's not needed as the spools do not need to rewind with the INDX system - they still only turn in one direction at all times since filament is not ejected like they are with the Vortek system. The main benefit with the Vortek system is it can be used with more filaments/colours and is not limited to the number of toolheads like the INDX, since it rewinds filaments - hence why it needs the AMS box storage solution to rewind filament, and hence why its more time consuming. So swings and roundabouts I guess.
Nevertheless, Prusa have already released their spool storage solution - the USS dry boxes that slap onto the sides of the printer. In my opinion this is ugly. I do not have the space for it since my printer is by a wall, and nor would I want it this way anyways. Prusa seems to have this thing whereby they want a complete self contained unit - everything in, or on, the one box, without a separate attachment. Not sure why they keep going for this. I have shelves above my printer so if I did upgrade with INDX I would use my own current dry boxes (the cereal container solution) on the shelf above the printer, and feeding down to the toolheads directly. Just need to move the shelves up a bit - luckily they are adjustable.....It's how I work with my Core One at the moment......
The BambuLab setups are completely different with their AMS. They take up the same space I guess, but just feel neater. You see my current external humidity level in the top corner below (its in an outbuilding with a washer/dryer close by) - hence why I like to have a spool storage solution full of desiccant! lol
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog
RE: INDX is coming for CoreOne?
I agree, but I do not think the AMS is an adequate solution. It is a filament changer and not a tool changer. The Vortex is a nozzle change and not a tool changer. I prefer a mix. I would love for Prusa to release an AMS BOX to go with their INDX printers and XL.
@darksharpie I have to agree with you…
@cwbullet yeah, I am really unimpressed with MMU3… it might work if I was not using a different filament management solution than the OEM… but the OEM solution is just so awful compared to the Bambu ams2 system that is not even in the same ballpark. INDX is something that I’m seriously considering even though I’ve also seriously been considering selling my core one. But I do think they’re multi material solution with INDX will be a hell of a lot better, except for the fact that I will absolutely have to wait six months to a year for them to get everything fixed because there’s no way I believe that it’ll be fine out of the gate. I have a lot more faith that bambu will likely be a little bit more mature when they roll it out.
without a doubt, the MMU3 is a afterthought as opposed to a good solution… and especially if you want to be printing with anything other than PLA or PETG.
--------------------
Chuck H
3D Printer Review Blog