C1 Owners: Any reasons to not upgrade a MK4S and keep a slinger?
I'm trying to debate what path I want to follow with printers. I'm just a hobbies. I don't need a stack of printers. My CAD-fu is weak and I'm a better "nongineer" than artist!. But, you know how it goes....
I have an mk4s. I originally planned to upgrade it to c1 and get an mmu3 or wait for the "next Gen" color change. Then I got a great deal on an XL and totally reprioritized! Then it turned out that XL wasn't meant to be..... (Heavy sobbing...)
Luckily that incident managed to line up with Snapmaker launching deposits for their U1 (baby XL 4h attempt) which I promptly placed a deposit on and as a 5h XL will never be in my budget, will hopefully sate my tool changer and moderately larger print bed needs. But with a 100C, 300C passive setup and Snapmakers reputation for solid hardware let down dodgy software that's not going to cut it for high temp engineering filament.
At first I decided to just mix it all to and get a K2 plus. It has a lot of things going for it. Nearly pulled the trigger (people mock Creality but personally I like their stuff. It's tinkery but we're Prusa people. We like that. ) however when I realized it weighs more than the XL and has roughly the same dimensions as my refrigerator........... I sadly had to nope out. I'm not printing cosplay masks. I want the big volume but I can't devote it a whole room to it.
So, the snapmaker U1 is a must because I need to scratch the XL tool changer itch and that'll do it on the cheap (ish.). And let's be honest, it'll probably print much faster too.... But I still need my high temp printer. K2 Pro is coming eventually. That would do it at less than 100lb with refrigerator girth. Bambu is something I'm just not interested in for a variety of reasons. Not really ideological so much as just recognizing their business model and planned obsolescence strategy and that's a train I don't want a ride on.
But I'm also considering returning to the original plan of the core one. I'm kind of disappointed by it because it's so small inside and so big and heavy outside while not really appearing faster than the mk4s I already have and not as hot inside as I'd like. Yet it does tick many boxes and still seems to have the best onboard filtration which doesn't get talked about as much as it needs to be.
I'm left with 2 questions. The first is how DOES it handle the very high temp filaments in cooler room environments? Early reports weren't promising. I don't mean CF, but the raw nylon and raw PC stuff. K2 Pro may become the only option if passive C1 just won't cut it. of course I haven't looked for recirc mods yet...
The other question is, if I do go the C1 route, is there any reason I shouldn't upgrade my MK4S and keep both? I don't need a bunch of printers at once, but are there things that a bed slinger just does better that makes it worth having one of each? TPU?
RE: C1 Owners: Any reasons to not upgrade a MK4S and keep a slinger?
I have a newly upgraded C1 and a MK4S in an enclosure (and an XL). Early days yet for the core 1, but I can offer some observations.
- 1) MK4S in an enclosure (with filter kit and lights) is functionally equivalent as far as I can tell.
- The filament path is less tortuous in the MK4S which matters for some filaments (the XL isn't great at flexibles out of the box either)
- The footprint is larger
- Most of the firmware/slicing bugs seem to have been worked out
- The fan on the front of the extruder is annoying
- The Core 1 is lovely looking and has a bit more built in functionality (fan/light control, spiffy camera that sticks in)
- Still bugs to be worked out, but if history is any guide, the performance will steadily improve over time. The XL was nearly useless at first, but now it's a workhorse.
- The belt tensioning is annoying
- Filament sensor mounting is hyper annoying if you ever have to mess with it
- Access to the control board is much easier than a MK4 in an enclosure.
I can't get excited about the performance difference much either way. For engineering kinds of things I do, VFAs don't matter. C1 maybe a little faster in printing, but not a life changing amount for me.
RE: C1 Owners: Any reasons to not upgrade a MK4S and keep a slinger?
Thanks, that's helpful. That kind of aligns with my sentiments that C1 isn't so much an upgraded MK printer as much as an upgraded enclosure for it that you build onto it 😀
I don't have the enclosure for my MK so it would make sense to just treat the C1 upgrade kit and an advanced enclosure kit rather than "mk vs C1" debate.
Only thing that holds me back is c1 is unnecessarily large and heavy for a good old mk4 build plate. I value the 17lb one hand carry mk4s and making it a 50lb monster seems wasteful. Guaranteed, the Core Two upgrade kit will be 2 replacement side walls without the pockets and new larger hotter heatbed!
The whole C1 vfa thing is interesting, I've found my mk4s can have nasty vfa, so it seems inherent beyond corexy. Most interesting is I didn't notice until I printed the Prusa toolbox from printables. A rectangular tall box on 70% of the plate. Most interesting it's on both x and y axis, but only on 2 sides. The box sides I printed near the front right corner of the plate have little to no vfa. The box sides away from the edge have strong vfa. And is not ringing, is definitely cogging. But why not on edges near the edge of the bed? And if resonance were in the bed, then it would get worse near the center and lighter as it approaches the bed edge but no, it's steady, either on or off. All I can think of is slightly different stepper speed when near the edge. I don't think vfa is a new c1 problem at all. It appears it was there all along in the mk4 setup but the cleaner edges of C1 make it more obvious.
That probably tells me I probably don't need to buy a whole C1 and should just upgrade my mk4s I suppose. Although it also means I'm better of waiting for Prusa black Friday for the hopeful shipping promo for $100 usd difference. And I may end up finding a cheap used k1c in the meantime to print some nylon and so I'm not ripping apart my only printer 😬
RE: C1 Owners: Any reasons to not upgrade a MK4S and keep a slinger?
The other question is, if I do go the C1 route, is there any reason I shouldn't upgrade my MK4S and keep both? I don't need a bunch of printers at once, but are there things that a bed slinger just does better that makes it worth having one of each? TPU?
I decided to upgrade my MK4S to the C1 because I knew the MK4S would gather dust. In my opinion bed slinger designs have zero future. Core-XY in an enclosure is safer without exposed wiring & moving parts, the heated chamber allows for exotic materials, they take up less bench space, and the panels keeps dust off the moving parts.
The only benefit with bed slingers I can think of is better access for repairs and modifications. Getting access to the C1 belt tensioner was frustratingly painful. Every other part was in the way and had to be removed first. It reminded me of working on cars. But when it's working reliably (knock on wood) the C1 is superior in every way imaginable.
My bench currently has an MK2.5, Prusa XL, and Prusa C1. The Prusa C1 and Prusa XL get regular use. The MK2.5 has been extensively modified over the years with 32-bit electronics, wifi uploads, sturdier frame, improved hotend, but it's already collecting dust. I will probably retire it soon. The C1 heated chamber is better for PETG and PCCF the two materials I now use the most. The XL is my best printer for multi-material and multi-color prints. There is no situation where I feel the need to use the MK2.5.