Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core  

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

So this has nothing to do with China.

It has everything to do with China. The broader point, and the point I felt the need to emphasise, is that any data that hits a Chinese server is basically in the hands of the Chinese government, the manufacturer has NO say in that.
(Obviously this applies to basically all authoritarian regimes, but China are the ones producing 90% of the world's 3d printers.)
I know full well the reasons and principles behind air-gapping production machines.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Rather short-sighted.  What if they steal your wifi password and use it to hack into your computer and steal your banking info?

Hm... who said it's on wifi? Prusa has RJ45 connector to connect it wired... (at least mine is)

regarding:

Offline mode, plus a firewall (a security mindet person runs anyway) fixes all security concerns.

Majority of 3d owners doesn't even have a clue what firewall, offline... is, let alone they know how to do anything about it... 

Not all people are computer freaks, and 3d printer is not meant only for those...

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

I am referring to the Bambu - The Bambu uploads files to China in slicing process.  

Posted by: @protoncek-2

Rather short-sighted.  What if they steal your wifi password and use it to hack into your computer and steal your banking info?

Hm... who said it's on wifi? Prusa has RJ45 connector to connect it wired... (at least mine is)

 

regarding:

Offline mode, plus a firewall (a security mindet person runs anyway) fixes all security concerns.

Majority of 3d owners doesn't even have a clue what firewall, offline... is, let alone they know how to do anything about it... 

Not all people are computer freaks, and 3d printer is not meant only for those...

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Yeah, I wrote wrong, it should be "who said it has to be on wifi"

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Posted by: @protoncek-2

 

Offline mode, plus a firewall (a security mindet person runs anyway) fixes all security concerns.

Majority of 3d owners doesn't even have a clue what firewall, offline... is, let alone they know how to do anything about it... 

Not all people are computer freaks, and 3d printer is not meant only for those...

It timed out and I could not edit it.  

My printers and computers are quarantined and behind a firewall.  I know exactly what they are sending and accessing.  Mots do not have that skillset.  My son is a cybersecurity expert.  He has helped me ensure my HomePod, printers, etc are kept separate to avoid leaks or sharing of info I do not want.  I realize that I can print files over LAN, but would prefer to have the full Bambu experience.  If I don't want a file in Chinese hands, I print it on a Prusa.  

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

BINGO!

Posted by: @gb160

So this has nothing to do with China.

It has everything to do with China. The broader point, and the point I felt the need to emphasise, is that any data that hits a Chinese server is basically in the hands of the Chinese government, the manufacturer has NO say in that.
(Obviously this applies to basically all authoritarian regimes, but China are the ones producing 90% of the world's 3d printers.)
I know full well the reasons and principles behind air-gapping production machines.

RE:

It has everything to do with China. The broader point, and the point I felt the need to emphasise, is that any data that hits a Chinese server is basically in the hands of the Chinese government, the manufacturer has NO say in that.

Again, you are wrong.
You are implying that you are forced to share data with the printer manufacturers where you are not. Not with Prusa, not with Bambu.
Both will work just fine locked in their own subnet, both will have reduced comfort if doing so.

If you are printing stuff not meant for the public eye then you need to protect it from leaving your computer, simple as that.
How many data breaches have you heard of over the last 10 years? Companies all over the world are affected.
Or a company has financial issues and gets taken over by an investor who decides selling customer data can make money.

So again, it does not matter who you share data with since you are never certain your data will stay there.

Btw., I own a Prusa MK4S and a Bambu H2D so I know both their possibilities and limitations with or without www connection.
And yes, of course I trust Prusa a hell of a lot more and I trust Bambu as far as I can throw a stone (and I'm very bad in throwing stones). Still - it makes no difference.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Posted by: @mike1d

It has everything to do with China. The broader point, and the point I felt the need to emphasise, is that any data that hits a Chinese server is basically in the hands of the Chinese government, the manufacturer has NO say in that.

Again, you are wrong.
You are implying that you are forced to share data with the printer manufacturers where you are not. Not with Prusa, not with Bambu.
Both will work just fine locked in their own subnet, both will have reduced comfort if doing so.

If you are printing stuff not meant for the public eye then you need to protect it from leaving your computer, simple as that.
How many data breaches have you heard of over the last 10 years? Companies all over the world are affected.
Or a company has financial issues and gets taken over by an investor who decides selling customer data can make money.

So again, it does not matter who you share data with since you are never certain your data will stay there.

Btw., I own a Prusa MK4S and a Bambu H2D so I know both their possibilities and limitations with or without www connection.
And yes, of course I trust Prusa a hell of a lot more and I trust Bambu as far as I can throw a stone (and I'm very bad in throwing stones far).

Im not implying anything, so please clarify exactly what part of what I wrote that is wrong?

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Im not implying anything, so please clarify exactly what part of what I wrote that is wrong?

So you are saying you are talking about data in general? Yes, then you are correct.
But then it's the wrong thread. It's a Bambu vs. Prusa thread here. It's about 3D printers.

Those printers, where you as a user can decide if you share your data or not.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Do you 100% know what the printer is sending to China?  I think that is the point.  N

Posted by: @mike1d

Im not implying anything, so please clarify exactly what part of what I wrote that is wrong?

So you are saying you are talking about data in general? Yes, then you are correct.
But then it's the wrong thread. It's a Bambu vs. Prusa thread here. It's about 3D printers.

Those printers, where you as a user can decide if you share your data or not.

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Who cares what's being sent to China? I mean, seriously? What do you think they want to do with that data? Are you a top secret agent or something?

Unless you are working and printing for the military or some secret organisation, do you think they care what you are sending to your 3D printer? I mean, even if your wifi password went across (which I very much doubt TBH), are you expecting the Chinese government to jump onto your private home network? For what purpose? Heck, even my Epson 2D InkJet printer is now wifi connected - are they checking every time I print my daughter a colouring page on paper too?

Yes, Bambu can see what's been printed, and it ties in with their MakerWorld catalogue - you can only rate what you've printed for instance, rather then being able to freely rate any model etc. For instances like this, it works well, and I have no problem with it. 

While I have a Core One and a H2D, I will continue to freely enjoy all of the H2D remote features. I used to use my A1 locked to only my own network (hence with limited features), but with my H2D I don't bother. I enjoy being able to remotely send a print job to start at home while I'm sitting at work. I enjoy being able to remotely live view the job and ensure all is OK. And I enjoy being able to get home after work and simply pick up a completed print. All nice and easy without any complex setup on my side. The remote features work well for me, and I will continue to use them. If the Chinese government want to see which toy I'm printing next, then they are welcome to. I have nothing to hide. 

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Rather short-sighted.

Rather i thing you are overeacting. If the chinese get my printouts and hack me though my 3d printer (i dont have a bambu but i have an elegoo saturn)  then they probably do the same with the electronics in my router, pc , firewall, laptops (yes IBM has factories in china along with various "european automotive" companies) etc.

But to comment on my original post if the INDX turns out not to be a half baked solution as few of the XL features (i,e enclosure, multinozzle printouts) , or overpiced like  the SLS line then i believe H2D would not hold a candle to this solution. H2C and their corresponding vortek is a washed out INDX solution (IMHO) since solve the problem of poop but not speed since again you have a single path for the filament. And having an overpacked solution with multiheads, ams, extra head for tpu etc.

But this is just a  comparison of H2C/ H2D and Prusa L INDX. And with the hope that Prusa learns from their mistake. And after that we can all safely say that opensource/design/reprap  and prusa is not so .. open. For good or bad.

In the end of the day there is a new line that Prusa can use to be able to be comparable with other vendors. And lets not forget the new snapmaker u1 and its price tag. 

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Posted by: @iftibashir

Who cares what's being sent to China? I mean, seriously? What do you think they want to do with that data? Are you a top secret agent or something?

Totally agree. I'm more worried what my own government (or Elon) is doing with my data than worrying about the Chinese. 

RE:

> Majority of 3d owners doesn't even have a clue what firewall, offline... is, let alone they know how to do anything about it... 
But these types of people have no IP cameras, WIFI enabled fridges, WIFI TVs. We are infected.
Not a single one of those can complain about 'china spying', because that's already gone.

Ordinary people can't secure their machines, that was my point. People who are experts, or sufficiently advanced, have all their 'smart' devices hidden offline behind a hardware firewall (not a software firewall mind that).

So this whole 'what about'-ism we are doing is so void. Ordinary people don't care. People who care, who have sensitive data, have their Prusa printers offline, and have their Bambu printers offline, their whatever printers are also offline. Because only that's secure.

We can throw buzzwords at it, zero trust, if you may.

Anyhow. People pushing back on this, don't much themselves about security. They will probably be in the internet connected TV, and internet connected fridge grouping, with 0 skill in IT security.

You pointing out that RJ45 is the way you connect your machine, puts you in the group that has no clue either. As else you would be fully aware how mood that point is. If there is a wifi, bluetooth, or a cable makes no difference from an attack surface and attack vector we are talking about here. 

Posted by: @protoncek-2

Rather short-sighted.  What if they steal your wifi password and use it to hack into your computer and steal your banking info?

Hm... who said it's on wifi? Prusa has RJ45 connector to connect it wired... (at least mine is)

 

regarding:

Offline mode, plus a firewall (a security mindet person runs anyway) fixes all security concerns.

Majority of 3d owners doesn't even have a clue what firewall, offline... is, let alone they know how to do anything about it... 

Not all people are computer freaks, and 3d printer is not meant only for those...

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

You think Elon or our GOV wants anything you can design?  

I doubt it.  We have better stuff than anything you can design and print.  

Posted by: @hyiger

 

Posted by: @iftibashir

Who cares what's being sent to China? I mean, seriously? What do you think they want to do with that data? Are you a top secret agent or something?

Totally agree. I'm more worried what my own government (or Elon) is doing with my data than worrying about the Chinese. 

RE:

(Posted by ultrametric)

You pointing out that RJ45 is the way you connect your machine, puts you in the group that has no clue either. As else you would be fully aware how mood that point is. If there is a wifi, bluetooth, or a cable makes no difference from an attack surface and attack vector we are talking about here. 

Now, now... don't mix things. My answer was to  a warning to "stolen" wifi password:

... What if they steal your wifi password and use it to hack into your computer and steal your banking info?

Btw...I don't see which banking data could be stolen ...? I have no banking data on any of my PC's. My bank used to use certificates, but not anymore. It's the phone who is more sensitive: i have unique password generator on it. Ok, it is protected with fingerprint/face/password, but even if they would hack into it they still need my unique username, which is only in my head. Most modern banks use that or similar method of protecting against "bad guys". If not, change your bank as soon as possible.

but regarding this:

puts you in the group that has no clue either.

 I only have 4 routers, 2 managed switches, a few classic switches, a few POE switches, over 60 end devices (wifi and eth ones).. Synology server, home assistant server, Proxmox server, alarm system, cameras system... and i all installed and manage by myself, so, true, i obviously don't have a clue... 🙄

i'm just not paranoid like some. And i really don't care if some Chinese guy has nothing better to do than observe how i print wall hooks, shelves, toys, printer updates and similar...  i also generally don't publish to whole world what i have or don't have a clue about...  (this was an exception). So don't judge people you don't know - you're not the only one with knowledge, believe it or not...

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

To my mind, this discussion about security issues (perceived or real) is no longer helpful for weighing the pros and cons of various printers. 

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

Risk assessments define the measure to take.

people have to do their own assessments. Most don’t know what the word risk assessment means and how to do such.

it all comes down to risk assessments. There are no feelings or emotions involved in a structured risk assessment.

however most fellows here don’t do any much  assessments and work in blank statements. Which is not constructive. Agree

RE: Asked about opinion for bambu vs Prusa Core

My main concern regarding Bambu Lab is not privacy and data security, but potential vendor lock-in:

With the proprietary identification tags in their filament and apparently their new Vortek nozzles, they could (in the extreme) lock out third-party materials entirely, or make it deliberately inconvenient to use them. By limiting direct printer interactions to their proprietary Bambu Studio, they could potentially add software functionality that is only available at a surcharge or a subscription, or push (or even limit) users to Bambu's own marketplace platform for models. And they can lock out or severely restrict 3rd party hardware upgrades, as they tried with the Panda touch display.

So far, push-back from customers has prevented Bambu from implementing really "hard" measures. But it seems clear to me that they have the appetite to take more and more control. Those recurring revenues from consumables and marketplace fees are just too sweet... They are called "the Apple of 3D printing" not just for their slick user experience, but also for their appetite to control all aspects of the ecosystem. 

RE:

... With the proprietary identification tags in their filament ... , they could (in the extreme) lock out third-party materials entirely, ...

(quote shortened by me)

I'm nearly sure you don't have a Bambu printer. Otherwise you knew at least this part is wrong.
So when you don't know something for sure but you are only guessing, don't make it look like a fact.

How do I know you most likely don't have a Bambu printer?
If you had one, you knew that only the AMS has an RFID reader. Externally connected spools or if you simply don't own an AMS your printer will believe what you told the filament is.

So far, push-back from customers has prevented Bambu from implementing really "hard" measures. But it seems clear to me that they have the appetite to take more and more control.

Totally agree. But also this is something nearly all comapnies want: Maximise their profit in one or another way. And a lot companies test their limits. In the 3D printing industry and basically in all other industires, too.