RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
I’m not sure if Noah is still around. But if you are I’m willing to print the parts for you. Just wasn’t sure if you had access to another printer.
I’m in the states. Ohio.
Appreciate it but I have 2 FL Sun v400s and they work very well. Would have not gotten the XL had I realized the FL Sun was so good before I got my XL.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
Again, Prusa hasn't misrepresented anything. They didn't claim that the printer, as shipped, can be put into an enclosure without further consideration taken. Once they had an enclosure option ready, they made it clear that parts would need to be replaced and shipped those same parts.
If some other solution wasn't well tested enough with the product as shipped, that's not really on Prusa. Their printer works as advertised, and when you want to enclose it, they have an option for that too which addresses the problems that arise. The designer of the enclosure you elected to build could have tested their solution prior to release to ensure these things didn't happen. They didn't, but Prusa did, and so Prusa includes a solution.
Blaming all this on Prusa seems a little much given the facts of the situation. You modified the printer to create the situation, and great news, there is an easy solution because the parts are printable.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
But did they explicitly claim it can't be used in an enclosure? I'm asking I'm not sure. I think it is improper to advertise a printer saying it can print high temp materials such as PC and not make it able to withstand an enclosure. I wouldn't call it misrepresentation as much as I would call it Prusa not standing behind their product (after so many years of development especially). I've never had a problem putting any other printer in an enclosure, so why should I have trouble with the most expensive printer of all. And for them to not even offer to send me some 3d printed parts, after I paid so much money it just rubs me the wrong way. An enclosure should be a day one feature as it is on pretty much all competitors. Shouldn't have to rebuild the printer so it doesn't melt away.
Again, Prusa hasn't misrepresented anything. They didn't claim that the printer, as shipped, can be put into an enclosure without further consideration taken. Once they had an enclosure option ready, they made it clear that parts would need to be replaced and shipped those same parts.
If some other solution wasn't well tested enough with the product as shipped, that's not really on Prusa. Their printer works as advertised, and when you want to enclose it, they have an option for that too which addresses the problems that arise. The designer of the enclosure you elected to build could have tested their solution prior to release to ensure these things didn't happen. They didn't, but Prusa did, and so Prusa includes a solution.
Blaming all this on Prusa seems a little much given the facts of the situation. You modified the printer to create the situation, and great news, there is an easy solution because the parts are printable.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
It was implied by their advertising that the printer I bought (I am not the person with the warping problem) would at some point have an enclosure available. Now I ordered like 2 years ago the "assembled" printer. It came a long way from assembled, took me a couple of days, I am not a 3d printer building dude to put it together.
Finally there is an enclosure available and there are like 200 steps involved for me to use the enclosure (60 some for the printer and another 25 or so for each printhead. I have to almost completely tear down and rebuild each of the 5 printheads plus play with belt adjustments that scare me.
The discount they have offered on the enclosure for me is LESS than how much I would have saved if I order the printer with the enclosure right now.
So I feel somewhat annoyed that I paid a deposit 2 years ago, waited get the printer with 0.6 mm nozzles, had to buy 0.4 mm nozzles, but the good steel ones were out of stock so I order the 0.4 in brass, then right away buy another set in steel - THEN the enclosure is announced and I have to rebuild tons of the printer.
On top of this, the 200 steps dont even include some of the parts that this dude is complaining warped. Are we going to have yet another problem?
Mind you I love the printer - but I am upset that the rate of information from Prusa has dropped to a trickle. There used to be regular you tube videos from them etc.
Kurt-A
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
Thank you sir, exactly what I'm saying. You get nickel and dimed for time and money because of their missteps. My MK3 is such a great printer I guess I was expecting similar ease of use with the XL but that just isn't the case.
It was implied by their advertising that the printer I bought (I am not the person with the warping problem) would at some point have an enclosure available. Now I ordered like 2 years ago the "assembled" printer. It came a long way from assembled, took me a couple of days, I am not a 3d printer building dude to put it together.
Finally there is an enclosure available and there are like 200 steps involved for me to use the enclosure (60 some for the printer and another 25 or so for each printhead. I have to almost completely tear down and rebuild each of the 5 printheads plus play with belt adjustments that scare me.
The discount they have offered on the enclosure for me is LESS than how much I would have saved if I order the printer with the enclosure right now.
So I feel somewhat annoyed that I paid a deposit 2 years ago, waited get the printer with 0.6 mm nozzles, had to buy 0.4 mm nozzles, but the good steel ones were out of stock so I order the 0.4 in brass, then right away buy another set in steel - THEN the enclosure is announced and I have to rebuild tons of the printer.
On top of this, the 200 steps dont even include some of the parts that this dude is complaining warped. Are we going to have yet another problem?
Mind you I love the printer - but I am upset that the rate of information from Prusa has dropped to a trickle. There used to be regular you tube videos from them etc.
Kurt-A
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
I agree it's annoying to have to disassemble so much to install the enclosure. It's clearly an oversight and I assume new printers come with stock PCCF parts. They could have learned that lesson with the MK3 enclosure. I'd honestly rather forfeit the voucher than take apart my very well-working printer.
RE:
They claim it based on max temp from the hotend. Prusa has always been the middle printer. Not a kit, but not quite retail.
PETG is known to melt if it gets too hot. Prusa enclosure has a dedicated fan to keep the enclosure temp from reaching a certain level. This is general how good enclosures are made. Putting a tent over it means you’ll have to closely monitor temps yourself.
It does suck that they are forcing people to break down their day 0 printers if they wish to use enclosures. My printer hasn’t shipped yet. I’ve been in talks with Prusa trying to get them to add the discount bundle to my order. They continue to tell me to just swap them but the system doesn’t allow me to do that. If I was able to just swap I would have never contacted support. Hopefully they will be able to resolve this for me soon. Heard great things about their support.
Edit: They fixed my order.
But did they explicitly claim it can't be used in an enclosure? I'm asking I'm not sure. I think it is improper to advertise a printer saying it can print high temp materials such as PC and not make it able to withstand an enclosure. I wouldn't call it misrepresentation as much as I would call it Prusa not standing behind their product (after so many years of development especially). I've never had a problem putting any other printer in an enclosure, so why should I have trouble with the most expensive printer of all. And for them to not even offer to send me some 3d printed parts, after I paid so much money it just rubs me the wrong way. An enclosure should be a day one feature as it is on pretty much all competitors. Shouldn't have to rebuild the printer so it doesn't melt away.
Again, Prusa hasn't misrepresented anything. They didn't claim that the printer, as shipped, can be put into an enclosure without further consideration taken. Once they had an enclosure option ready, they made it clear that parts would need to be replaced and shipped those same parts.
If some other solution wasn't well tested enough with the product as shipped, that's not really on Prusa. Their printer works as advertised, and when you want to enclose it, they have an option for that too which addresses the problems that arise. The designer of the enclosure you elected to build could have tested their solution prior to release to ensure these things didn't happen. They didn't, but Prusa did, and so Prusa includes a solution.
Blaming all this on Prusa seems a little much given the facts of the situation. You modified the printer to create the situation, and great news, there is an easy solution because the parts are printable.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
You guys are glossing right over one big (arguably the single biggest) point to this whole issue... the Prusa "Enclosure" is not a "full" enclosure.
i.e. it does not seal the entire printer (i.e. electronics in the back) in an air tight environment with the heated bed / chamber... it effectively puts a hard canopy over the top of the printer to keep most of the heat in and be able to do filtration as it sucks up the hot air and vents some of it, and uses bellows to trap heat and prevent drafts from the front / below the bed.
The back section, where the motors and electronics are, can still "breathe" from underneath, so they will not get to nearly the same temperature as when you stick the whole damn printer into a reflective tent and leave it to bake.
Of course the printed parts are going to warp when you do that and don't actively monitor / control the temperature inside. If you had looked at the location of the physically stress parts (which warped for you), heat generating parts, and where they intentionally left sections open for airlow, this should have been plainly obvious in advance, as it was to me.
This is the exact reason I did NOT put my brand new, $2,500 printer into my unused creality reflecto-oven-5000, because I knew it would kill the printer.
This is a non-issue... stop complaining that you screwed up and have to pay for (or print) replacement parts. This is not something anyone should expect any company to warranty against.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
You guys are glossing right over one big (arguably the single biggest) point to this whole issue... the Prusa "Enclosure" is not a "full" enclosure.
i.e. it does not seal the entire printer (i.e. electronics in the back) in an air tight environment with the heated bed / chamber... it effectively puts a hard canopy over the top of the printer to keep most of the heat in and be able to do filtration as it sucks up the hot air and vents some of it, and uses bellows to trap heat and prevent drafts from the front / below the bed.
The back section, where the motors and electronics are, can still "breathe" from underneath, so they will not get to nearly the same temperature as when you stick the whole damn printer into a reflective tent and leave it to bake.
Of course the printed parts are going to warp when you do that and don't actively monitor / control the temperature inside. If you had looked at the location of the physically stress parts (which warped for you), heat generating parts, and where they intentionally left sections open for airlow, this should have been plainly obvious in advance, as it was to me.
This is the exact reason I did NOT put my brand new, $2,500 printer into my unused creality reflecto-oven-5000, because I knew it would kill the printer.
This is a non-issue... stop complaining that you screwed up and have to pay for (or print) replacement parts. This is not something anyone should expect any company to warranty against.
This is what I was going to say. The back of the printer where that stuff is at its still vented. It got way hotter than 100°F in that enclosure as well for those parts to deform like that. I've printed probably 500 + hours at 45° C (113°F) and have not seen this. But my enclosure also doesn't cover up the back venting.
I imagine in a reflective tent like that enclosure it probably got 50-60°C easy if your printing ABS or PC.
In this particular case just reprint the parts and move on. If you didn't have another printer to print them I'm sure someone here on the forum would print them for you.
Good luck
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
Being someone that complained as much as i praised prusa i cant find myself justifying wanting prusa to reimbursh you because you placed your printer in n oven. Prusa presented a product that was tested to work as is. Never did prusa claimed that it works in conjuction with any 3rd party products. DIY or not. An enclosure raises the internat temp and limits the cooling and airflow on the printers components so it actually presents new variables and needs testing. In order to compensate for this Prusa made their own tests and created a product , with addins, that take i to account the printers design, components and tolerances. Thats why personaly i chose to wait and buy their slightly overpriced one instead of either printing my one or buying an untested 3r party. Now if you buy their enclosure and things warp yes its their responsibility. If you decide to change the socks on your car and looses its stability , or something like that, then you dont complain to the company because its a product that should work with 3rd part parts but it doesnt work with the ones you chose and ARE NOT TESTED AND OFFICIALY SUPPORTED by the company. Yes i agree that ALL parts that host moving elements or are susceptible to heat should be printed in pc instead of petg from the start. Is a 5k printer (the 5h anyway) no reason to be stingy. But i thing there is no ground for the OP claim.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
That sort of sounds reasonable until you realize that for example I ordered my printer in good faith when it was announced. I then waited a very long time. Then they delivered the printer to me, and the very next week as the users found the 0.6mm nozzles didn’t work well they shipped them all with 0.4mm nozzles and I had to purchase them myself (they did give me a discount, but shipping from Prusa can kill you). Next up they have changed a bunch of parts to better materials even though when they announced the printer they said it would work with their enclosure. Turns out most likely thanks to all the folks who used “non standard” enclosures they found out that the printer as built and shipped couldn’t withstand the environment even in their enclosure. Now it is true that along with my enclosure they are sending ME the parts (not the poor unfortunate soul above) BUT I still have to take apart and rebuild a ton of parts that I shouldn’t have to considering I am not mechanically adapt and bought a “assembled” (notice the quotes because its far from assembled) printer.
This isn’t to say I am not happy with Prusa - but I would think they would ship the poor guy the parts that warped.
K
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
That sort of sounds reasonable until you realize that for example I ordered my printer in good faith when it was announced. I then waited a very long time. Then they delivered the printer to me, and the very next week as the users found the 0.6mm nozzles didn’t work well they shipped them all with 0.4mm nozzles and I had to purchase them myself (they did give me a discount, but shipping from Prusa can kill you). Next up they have changed a bunch of parts to better materials even though when they announced the printer they said it would work with their enclosure. Turns out most likely thanks to all the folks who used “non standard” enclosures they found out that the printer as built and shipped couldn’t withstand the environment even in their enclosure. Now it is true that along with my enclosure they are sending ME the parts (not the poor unfortunate soul above) BUT I still have to take apart and rebuild a ton of parts that I shouldn’t have to considering I am not mechanically adapt and bought a “assembled” (notice the quotes because its far from assembled) printer.
This isn’t to say I am not happy with Prusa - but I would think they would ship the poor guy the parts that warped.
K
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
The Original Prusa XL 3D Printing Handbook (avaialble online and comes in the box in paper) gives the following specs on p. 7:
Operating temperature range: 18 °C (PLA)-38 °C
Maximum air humidity: 85%, non-condensing
So if your enclosure resulted in the ambient temperature rising above 38 °C then you were operating the printer outside of its specifications.
But did they explicitly claim it can't be used in an enclosure?
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
This is kinda my entire point of this discussion. I have kept every printer I've ever had (my MK3 as well) in an enclosure, and never had any issue ever. It's not like was leaving a space heater in there, I always operated it with the front cover open. Now, after I've spent all this money, I have to reprint parts that Prusa was too stupid/cheap to have made right in the first place. Why would they make a printer that in order to use it in an enclosure you have to swap 50 parts? I would expect that for a creality printer, but a Prusa? Come on. After they have jerked around their customers for years, just to release an unfinished product. I genuinely regret buying it. Not even a firmware update since I got it in January last year, and it still is plagued with ghost crashes and layer shifts (problems I had from day 1, not the enclosure). I have since printed the parts I needed and replaced them, but I am honestly disgusted that Prusa didn't even offer to send me 2 pieces of 3D printed plastic to make their customer happy. One of the big reasons I bought an XL and not something else much sooner is the "legendary" reliability and customer service, and I have gotten neither. Everything about this printer has left me with a bad taste in my mouth. People can be Prusa shills all they want and tell me I'm an idiot for just assuming I could do put it in an enclosure like every other printer I've owned, but that doesn't make up for poor customer service and the lackluster performance of the machine itself. SAD!
That sort of sounds reasonable until you realize that for example I ordered my printer in good faith when it was announced. I then waited a very long time. Then they delivered the printer to me, and the very next week as the users found the 0.6mm nozzles didn’t work well they shipped them all with 0.4mm nozzles and I had to purchase them myself (they did give me a discount, but shipping from Prusa can kill you). Next up they have changed a bunch of parts to better materials even though when they announced the printer they said it would work with their enclosure. Turns out most likely thanks to all the folks who used “non standard” enclosures they found out that the printer as built and shipped couldn’t withstand the environment even in their enclosure. Now it is true that along with my enclosure they are sending ME the parts (not the poor unfortunate soul above) BUT I still have to take apart and rebuild a ton of parts that I shouldn’t have to considering I am not mechanically adapt and bought a “assembled” (notice the quotes because its far from assembled) printer.
This isn’t to say I am not happy with Prusa - but I would think they would ship the poor guy the parts that warped.
K
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
You can say I have no ground to stand on, but it is inexcusable that such an expensive machine is made in such an inferior way. Prusa didn't know that their printers would produce heat? They had plans to release an enclosure, why make it out of plastic that deforms and melts? This is a company that knows a thing or two about making strong 3d printed components, and they totally dropped the ball. The ground I stand upon is that I paid a premium for a better machine, and that's not what I got.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
You can say I have no ground to stand on, but it is inexcusable that such an expensive machine is made in such an inferior way. Prusa didn't know that their printers would produce heat? They had plans to release an enclosure, why make it out of plastic that deforms and melts? This is a company that knows a thing or two about making strong 3d printed components, and they totally dropped the ball. The ground I stand upon is that I paid a premium for a better machine, and that's not what I got.
I’m not here to fight with you. I’m not sure why anyone would. We are all end users here.
I guess I came in expecting from day one to replace parts when I enclosed a printer. I thought it was nice that Prusa listed their parts. But that’s me and my own personal view points. I believe they required the parts to be replaced to keep the cost down. Most people only use pla or petg. Right or wrong that is what I think is the reason.
0.6 nozzle complaints are rampant as well. My best guess is people aren’t modifying their settings. The XL is a very large printer. It makes sense to go with a .6 or a .4. But then the argument could be made that the stuff on the road flash drive didn’t work. I personally never would have used it as that isn’t my gcode. Every printer is unique and couldn’t imagine any pre slice gcode taking my filament and personal setup into consideration.
RE:
My dissatisfaction is for Prusa, not you. Our opinions are shaped from the experiences we have. From my experience, I've never had to replace anything to use an enclosure. The maximum temperature I have ever recorded is about 96 Fahrenheit towards the roof of the enclosure. I thought it could stand up to it. They had so many years to perfect the XL, you would think they would use heat resistant plastic from the start. Perhaps though, a printer made of metal like many of the ones I have hold up better in such an environment. You must admit though, isn't it kind of ridiculous that they wouldn't mail me 2 pieces of plastic just to make me somewhat happy? Even if I am 100% wrong in my action, would it be so much to ask after waiting so long and spending thousands of dollars? I used to deal with customers all the time, and sometimes you should just help regardless, especially if it is something that costs almost nothing for them to replace. The person I was dealing with via email strung me along for over a month saying he was gonna help me, just in the end to say I'm SOL. I wish they sold the XL on Amazon so I could return it. Also, I actually like the 0.6 nozzle much better. Of the issues I've had, stringing and blobs haven't been a problem. It prints faster obviously. The 0.4 does offer better detail, but I've had good luck with the 0.6 for 90% of what I print. What is extremely annoying is that I still get random crashes, especially at higher speeds, resulting in layer shifts. Total firmware issue that has yet to be resolved. Also, huge missed opportunity not being able to use 0.4 and 0.6 heads at the same time for a print. Sorry I'm venting, just annoyed with myself mostly for buying an XL.
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
For most of the things you mentioned i was also complaining. From the long wait, sad excuses, lack of actual information, praising the 0.6 nozzles just to come later and withdraw all this etc. And as i mentioned in my earlier post the fact that the didnt print in at least asa but petg. Now i dont think thought that this has something to do with the OP. There were a lot of mishandling from Prusa between the announcement of XL back in 2021 (i was a first day order) until now. But i dont thing that prusa relied on the "poor users that made or bought 3r party enclosure" to design its own. Im sure , in all the wrong steps prusa took, they would perform quite a bit of testing on their own. No point on waiting for a few users to put theirs in a reflective or fully enclosed environment and get rough comments to know that they should take in to account the change of internal temps and tolerances of the printer they designed. Yes i was a bit disappointed that i had to disassembly 5th and the x carriage because prusa was stingy with their materials in a 5k printer. Yes i'll complain and be more annoyed if something wraps on their -not so cheap- enclosure. But all this because its their product line and im paying the premium of their name. In my personal opinion the OP is out of this scope. It is not one of Prusas mistakes but one of the users. The 3d printed parts should be better BUT for the time being they work with the product they were design with. And replacement parts were send were needed -error in initial design and error in not sending new parts on all the users- but irrelevant to why Prusa didnt work with a 3rd party enclosure.
That sort of sounds reasonable until you realize that for example I ordered my printer in good faith when it was announced. I then waited a very long time. Then they delivered the printer to me, and the very next week as the users found the 0.6mm nozzles didn’t work well they shipped them all with 0.4mm nozzles and I had to purchase them myself (they did give me a discount, but shipping from Prusa can kill you). Next up they have changed a bunch of parts to better materials even though when they announced the printer they said it would work with their enclosure. Turns out most likely thanks to all the folks who used “non standard” enclosures they found out that the printer as built and shipped couldn’t withstand the environment even in their enclosure. Now it is true that along with my enclosure they are sending ME the parts (not the poor unfortunate soul above) BUT I still have to take apart and rebuild a ton of parts that I shouldn’t have to considering I am not mechanically adapt and bought a “assembled” (notice the quotes because its far from assembled) printer.
This isn’t to say I am not happy with Prusa - but I would think they would ship the poor guy the parts that warped.
K
RE: XL gantry warped from enclosure, Prusa denies any warranty.
Prusa is more of a oldschool kit printer. More of like a retail voron. If your printer needs new parts then we as a community are here for you. It’s mostly plastic for this reason. The idea is that we can continue to build and improve on their ideas without having to depend entirely on prusa.
As far as blobs, clogs and shifts go. Only some people are running into them. This is true at least for the first 2. Not sure about the shift at a certain height. Most of that doesn’t sound like a firmware issue since it isn’t effecting everyone. But you make a post here documenting your steps and willingness to accept suggestions then we will get things smoothed out.
But Noah brings up some really great points. I hope to never see these printers at places like Amazon. It’s the wrong market for them. Selling things in such a way could give off the wrong impression. Sure they could make changes to their machine to make them more plug and play. But we have plenty of that already in the market. If I want a kit that is backed by a company and a community I really only have one choice.