Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.  

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @4x4dually

 

Posted by: @brian-12There's something else going on.  Did you reprint the parts I suggested? 

I literally have thousands of hours printing with regular PETG and I've never had a clog, just the issue with the idler door I mentioned earlier, and have not had an issue since.  A clog once a week is not even acceptable.

I have thousands of hours printing with Prusament PETG as well. I just completed a 42 hour print using Prusament PETG. When complete, I unloaded it, and loaded the ESD PETG and it clogged in less than 15 minutes. It's absurd. I did not print the parts you suggested, but I did find those parts that were provided to me by Prusa as the updated, higher temp, parts. I've changed hot ends, I've bought hardened nozzles, I've bumped the nozzle temps, I've replace with 3mm id tubing, I've built spool holders with bearings, I use a needle to clean nozzles, etc etc etc and still this POS won't print that material. 

Any chance you have an extra set of those parts printed I can pay you to send me? I don't remember what material you printed them out of and I doubt I'll have that anyway. Not sure if you are in the states or not. I'll have to look back and find the link to those parts and the material. I've tried so many thing at this point, all these post are running together. 

Thanks for your continued help. I greatly appreciate it. 

So I just had another thought.  I wonder if the stuff they add to the PETG to make it ESD safe is what's clogging the nozzle.  I looked around a bit and it looks like most manufacturers recommend a .6mm nozzle.  I assume you using a .4mm. 

Can you try a .6mm nozzle?

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

That's one of the only things I've thought about but haven't yet tried. I'm a assuming what they are adding is carbon and it's abrasive and it eats our the inside of the nozzle. Sometimes, when the nozzle purges after a filament load, the material comes out goofy and wads up and doesn't just flow straight down like it should. I'm assuming that is nozzle wear. Maybe I need to try the .6mm nozzles. 

Most of the time when it clogs, I unload it and I shove it right back into it and it takes back off like nothing happened. That's what frustrates me. If something was broke or bent or heat related, then it would stay messed up and not just take back off like nothing happened and print another 15 hours. I have leaned toward the sensor of the electronics or even the motor but Prusa refuses to send me complete replacement heads to try. In fact, they've refused to send me ANYTHING hard part wise to try thus far. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

I'd try the.6 nozzle, and yes I could print the parts and send them to you.  I'm in the US.

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @4x4dually

That's one of the only things I've thought about but haven't yet tried. I'm a assuming what they are adding is carbon and it's abrasive and it eats our the inside of the nozzle. Sometimes, when the nozzle purges after a filament load, the material comes out goofy and wads up and doesn't just flow straight down like it should. I'm assuming that is nozzle wear. Maybe I need to try the .6mm nozzles. 

I believe that that it has to do with the carbon ESD material in combination with the PETG.  I'm not so sure it is an abrasive problem.  I had it clog up with the sticky mess you described on a brand-new nozzle.   When I try to clear the nozzle by running nylon or PLA through it, I have to extrude feet of it to get it to run clean.  

I've just finished a 13-hour part using the 3DXTech ESD PLA material without any problems.  Same brand as the ESD PETG but PLA.  The carbon ESD material does not seem to get sticky/gummy like the PETG version.  It looks more normal.  

RE:

Interesting. We pretty much use PETG exclusively as we like its strength vs the PLA. I have not tried any ESD PLA, but I do have 4-2kg spools and 4-1kg spool of PETG that I can't use now, so that's about a $1380 worth. 😉

I just loaded some Prusament PETG in the machine and will watch it print something perfectly now. So frustrating. It HAS to be something in the nozzle design.

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

We also like PETG for the strength and nice finish.  Like you, I need to get parts made for our fixture department.  The parts I've made so far out of the ESD PLA look really nice and feel rigid.  I will have to wait and see how our gorillas, (our workers who like to break things), treat these parts. 

I did find other ESD PETG materials.  One is Raise3D Industrial PETG ESD Filament sold by Rasie3D.  Another is Fiberon™ PETG-ESD (Formerly PolyMax™ PETG-ESD). I have not tried either of these.  Perhaps after I get my other 4 spools used up somehow. 😒

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Ordering  the .6mm nozzles. Going to give them a try as a last ditch effort. Looking at an Ultimaker S6 with the Material Control Enclosure as a back-up plan. Sure is nice and sure is $12K. 

Let's get down the root cause of the clog. Is the passing filament down the nozzle tube leaving a carbon buildup inside the tube? Is the heat on the tube causing the carbon to burn and stick to the tube? I can run a 5/32 drill bit down the brass nozzle tubes, remove the filament that's stuck, and they will take right back off printing. The issue is, there is no telling how long it will actually keep printing until it clogs. If Ultimaker is printing this same filament with zero issues, how are their nozzle/nozzle tubes and hot ends so different that they don't clog? Does anyone have any insight into this? Is it a geometry of the design issue or temp or ??????

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Another thought, at any point have you disassembled and cleaned the gearbox in the printhead?  I had one filament that kept jamming (a shiny PLA) and it turned out it was shedding debris that was getting into the gearbox.  Took about an hour to clean as it was packed into all the gear teeth.  Threw that particular spool of filament into the trash.  Smooth sailing from then on.

(I haven't tried ESD-safe filament, much as I'd like to.  Too expensive for what I'd be using it for.)

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @kenryan

Another thought, at any point have you disassembled and cleaned the gearbox in the printhead?  I had one filament that kept jamming (a shiny PLA) and it turned out it was shedding debris that was getting into the gearbox.  Took about an hour to clean as it was packed into all the gear teeth.  Threw that particular spool of filament into the trash.  Smooth sailing from then on.

(I haven't tried ESD-safe filament, much as I'd like to.  Too expensive for what I'd be using it for.)

Yes, I've blew air into it to remove debris as well as disassembled it completely to make sure it was clean. It's all in the fact that the nozzles won't pass the carbonized filament. I've printed Prusament PETG for several days now with zero issues. I have .6mm hardened nozzles on order. Maybe they will help. Not much printing that I need to do that isn't ESD. That's kind of our business. Might have picked the wrong printer. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

I REALLY hate to even post about it just yet.....however....I installed a .6mm hardened nozzle last week and have been printing 3D Xtech ESD PETG flawlessly from a 2kg spool since I swapped to the larger nozzle. I wouldn't consider it a 100% fix just yet, but I've completed almost 40 hours of a few different prints and haven't had one issue since. 

Kind of stoked about it. I did setup a custom filament in the slicer and modify the nozzle temp about 10 deg hotter. Now I get a "incompatible filament" message every time I print. That's always nice. 🤣 

Just a follow up on the progress. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @4x4dually

I REALLY hate to even post about it just yet.....however....I installed a .6mm hardened nozzle last week and have been printing 3D Xtech ESD PETG flawlessly from a 2kg spool since I swapped to the larger nozzle. I wouldn't consider it a 100% fix just yet, but I've completed almost 40 hours of a few different prints and haven't had one issue since. 

Kind of stoked about it. I did setup a custom filament in the slicer and modify the nozzle temp about 10 deg hotter. Now I get a "incompatible filament" message every time I print. That's always nice. 🤣 

Just a follow up on the progress. 

I am happy for your success so far and an anxious to hear more as you make bigger parts with long print times.  I have some questions about your current setup with the .6mm nozzle.  When you created the custom filament, did you start with the PETG template?  What temps are you setting?  How about fan speed?  Is the 2K spool on your custom spool holder?  Are you able to go through the side mounted filament sensor or are you bypassing it?  Thanks.

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @peter-k13

 I am happy for your success so far and an anxious to hear more as you make bigger parts with long print times.  I have some questions about your current setup with the .6mm nozzle.  When you created the custom filament, did you start with the PETG template?  What temps are you setting?  How about fan speed?  Is the 2K spool on your custom spool holder?  Are you able to go through the side mounted filament sensor or are you bypassing it?  Thanks.

 

Correct. I did start with the standard PETG Prusament filament setup and modified it. Here are the settings I modified. Everything else is just as Prusa had it. 

I did build custom 2kg spool holders with chinesium bearings from Amazon. I use spacers to adapt back and forth from 1kg to 2kg spools. I can set the tension using a wing nut that was printed. Just enough drag to keep the spool from unloading itself. Top spool comes off the bottom and bottom spool comes off the top. This puts the two filaments closer to each other to feed straighter into the side mounted tubes. The side filament sensor is disabled and the balls have been removed to reduce friction. Honestly, now that we know that wasn't the problem, they can probably be put back on however the stupid wire harness isn't long enough to move it down where it needs to be for my spool holder setup. Bearing holders are stepped to match the several brands of filament I had on hand at the time. I used 3/4 all thread to hold the heavy spool. I also replaced both tubes with 4mm OD, 3mm ID tubes. Less friction in those it seems. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Hi 4x4dually,

Thank you for the setting and setup pictures.  It looks like will be purchasing a .6mm nozzle and reconfiguring my machine like yours.  I did purchase a new side sensor wire harness. My plan was to splice in longer wires to make the harness longer to allow for positioning the side sensor lower on the machine frame or in a different location altogether.   I will let you know if I do this.  Thanks again! 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

So, I've printed ALL week without one nozzle clog with this ESD PETG filament now. Burned through an entire 2kg spool and started my second this morning. No issues thus far. The print over night did run out of filament with 3 layers left. I think I'll put the sensors back on the side of the machine and lengthen the wires are you indicated and turn filament sensing back on. Knowing what we know now, I highly doubt the friction of the ball was causing the issue. That's my plan for Monday when I return to the office. 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @4x4dually

So, I've printed ALL week without one nozzle clog with this ESD PETG filament now. Burned through an entire 2kg spool and started my second this morning. No issues thus far. The print over night did run out of filament with 3 layers left. I think I'll put the sensors back on the side of the machine and lengthen the wires are you indicated and turn filament sensing back on. Knowing what we know now, I highly doubt the friction of the ball was causing the issue. That's my plan for Monday when I return to the office. 

Glad you finally got it figured out!

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Posted by: @brian-12

 

Posted by: @4x4dually

So, I've printed ALL week without one nozzle clog with this ESD PETG filament now. Burned through an entire 2kg spool and started my second this morning. No issues thus far. The print over night did run out of filament with 3 layers left. I think I'll put the sensors back on the side of the machine and lengthen the wires are you indicated and turn filament sensing back on. Knowing what we know now, I highly doubt the friction of the ball was causing the issue. That's my plan for Monday when I return to the office. 

Glad you finally got it figured out!

You and me both! 

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

I'd like to correct the statement I posted above that said "I highly doubt the friction of the ball was causing the issue."

I went to the trouble to extend the cable Monday and have printed over 40 hours with no issues...until now. I am printing some custom wall plates and using Prusament PETG and that's all I've printed this week. I just had a filament error and it said clog. Good thing is, it wasn't, but the side sensor ball was jammed up. Pulling the filament back out of the tube was very hard to do. Once the filament cleared the ball, it freed back up. So, I disabled the side sensors and went back to what I was doing. 

The side sensors STILL cause issues...at least on my machine. So, I wanted to correct my statement.

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

I skipped the side sensors right from the start because I am running from a electronic drybox, and I wanted to reduce drag since it's a fairly long run. 

The only downfall is having to disconnect the ptfe tube when the filament runs out, but it's honestly no big deal.

RE: Trouble Printing ESD Filament on XL Nextruder.

Just a quick post to say that using the .6mm nozzles has worked flawlessly with the PETG ESD from 3DXTECH thus far. I have not had a single clog ESD or plain PETG since upsizing the nozzles. The ESD does gum up on the nozzle a bit but only because I have lots of text embedded on layer 1-3. After making it past all the small details, it stops adding debris to the nozzle and prints much cleaner. 

👍

RE:

Posted by: @brian-12

I'll add that I also run the 3mm id tubing and skip the side filament sensors.  I've run this way from day 1 because I print directly from an electronic drybox and the filament run is much longer than in the stock setup.  So in order to minimize resistance I used the larger 3mm id tubing, all filament spools run on bearings, and I bypassed the side sensors, however the filament pretty much follows the same path as it did stock.  Notice in my pictures that I don't try to restrict where the tubes are, and that's on purpose.  I let the tubes flex wherever they want to in order to minimize drag.

The only downside to skipping the side sensors is that when the filament runs out you need to disconnect the tubing from the print head to get the small unused piece out, but that's super easy since the fittings are push to connect. 

I found this thread when trying to troubleshoot my same problems with PETG-ESD as the OP did, and while here I saw this picture of your setup for the XL. Do you have a more detailed post about everything you have done? I have some disappointments in the way that I set mine up and would like to see what could work from yours.