RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
I was one of the very first pre-orders and waited 18 months for my 5T XL "fully assembled" machine. It was a hot mess at the beginning but with firmware updates it's grown to be one of my most reliable machines. I do feel we've be hung out to dry on updates for the hardware though. My two mk3 machines have been updated over the years, and one of them is a core one now, with the other being an MK4. For as much as we all spent on the XL, it would be nice to get some incremental updates like they've been doing for the MK line. The upgradability as been a big reason I like prusa. But as others have noted, prusa has been slipping and I hope they can earn back some of the respect they've lost. It's not like I"m going to run out and by a bambu labs machine, but I've also considered checking out other vendors. The tool changing on the XL is pretty awesome compared to something like the MMU, which I grew to loathe after hundreds of hours of battling it lol I do hope the INDX thing is a resounding success.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
Interesting discussion. Just got my XL 5T. I’d rather have last week’s best multi-material printer than try to guess who the winner is going to be a year from now. I think exaggerated marketing and broken promises are more likely over the coming months than the outcome that multiple brands mastered cost effective multi-material at the exact same time. Probably a good idea for FOMO sensitive folks to save rather than spend…imagine buying Core One betting on ultimate future-proof INDX and here comes L looking like it’s poised to be flagship.
RE:
My wait was 6 months for a kit. Nasty USB errors, after a year they finally sent me a new one. I assume the board revs. are different since all USB errors are gone.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
As an early adopter I'd appreciate a hardware refresh(maybe XLS or XL+). It would make me feel better that there was some life left in the XL line. I like the large build volume, the CoreOne L doesn't give you that.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
"Most users only visit forums if/when they have a problem to fix" <-- Guilty as charged. I'm very easy going about this kind of thing but the languishing of the XL and the recent decline in performance for such an expensive machine is truly galling. 5T + Buddy Camera + Enclosure. A decent machine, yes. Print multi material ridiculously faster and more efficiently than other systems on the market? You betcha. Worth the money spent? Absolutely NOT. Prusa Slicer is so far behind in supporting the things that this machine should be able to do. It makes EVERYTHING harder than it needs to be. VFA? Better but still here. I'm just waiting for Prusa to drop a belt and pully upgrade kit that solves this and wants to charge me $500 for it.
"The XL prints exactly as well after Formnext as it did before Formnext; " <-- Not true. Recent firmwares have ruined the reliability for me. I used to send a print to the printer and be in the car before the download completed I was that confident in the performance. Now I have to babysit the printer, sometimes for 20+ minutes to see if the print starts... https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-xl-tool-changer-hardware-firmware-and-software-help/5t-xl-never-passes-stuck-filament-or-bed-leveling-anymore/#post-771943
OK. I will qualify before and after Formnext:
Formnext takes place in the autumn (northern hemisphere) just at the time many people are switching off AC, pausing for a week or two then starting the central heating, it's also a time of high humidity over much of the world. This, together with the spring change in the other direction, is the commonest time of year for humidity/damp filament issues. We always get floods of "It used to be OK but now it's @*%#!, I'm doing nothing different" posts at this time - when AC or heating are drying the air users can get away with a lot that suddenly fails to work when real atmosphere enters the house. This is when we get the most complaints about 'zits' on the print-sheet, pockmarks in perimeters, stringing, oozing, and bubbling, fizzing and popping extruders...
So: The XL prints exactly as well after Formnext as it did before Formnext; as long as you keep you filament dry and continue regular maintenance.
Cheerio
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
No, there's a difference not directly attributable to filament moisture. I dry my filament obsessively and I do so year round, to a virtually psychotic degree. I did it in Antarctica, one of the driest places in the entire world. That is how obsessed I am.
Wet filament does not cause toolhead crashes. It oozes terribly and it always has. I reiterate: This is a good printer but we do nobody any good by pretending that the platform hasn't been largely abandoned in both hardware and software. Why does it try to park toolhead 2 where toolhead 1 is? That's unacceptable by any metric. I hope it gets fixed soon.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
Seasonal changes that can be frequently fixed with a firmware downgrade? And to be clear, the post comes after months of frustration. My printer does not suffer from SAD, it does suffer from languishing support.
OK. I will qualify before and after Formnext:
Formnext takes place in the autumn (northern hemisphere) just at the time many people are switching off AC, pausing for a week or two then starting the central heating, it's also a time of high humidity over much of the world. This, together with the spring change in the other direction, is the commonest time of year for humidity/damp filament issues. We always get floods of "It used to be OK but now it's @*%#!, I'm doing nothing different" posts at this time - when AC or heating are drying the air users can get away with a lot that suddenly fails to work when real atmosphere enters the house. This is when we get the most complaints about 'zits' on the print-sheet, pockmarks in perimeters, stringing, oozing, and bubbling, fizzing and popping extruders...
So: The XL prints exactly as well after Formnext as it did before Formnext; as long as you keep you filament dry and continue regular maintenance.
Cheerio
RE:
The XL is still a beast- and it is ‘old’. I agree that the lack of head options is kind of a missed ‘promise’ or opportunity. Not sure why more third party heads aren’t available.
What the XL really needs is a pellet based head. With that build volume, the ability to print cheaper (and probably faster) would be the real difference maker.
Also why there isn’t a paste/2K head- a known tech, is really baffling.
Or a camera head for in-process QA.
The pellet head is a reach, but the other two are not big lifts. The pick and place is good.
Even a head optimized for removing completed objects would be interesting.
But the XL is a beast for 5 color printing. I mainly print 100x100x100mm items, but with 5 colors and lots of tool changes. The damn thing just prints.
3DXTECH ASA on the smooth substrate with some glue stick- winner.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
Im a first day order and i really like the idea of a multi tool solution. For me the actual multi material, multi nozzle and speed are what matters. I dont know how fast will INDX be, but even 5sec slower per toolchange in a lets say 1200 changes is 100 minutes delay. I used all 5TH about 10 times from the day i bought it and that was mostly since i had them. 8th are nice but not a decision maker for me. Now the problem with XL and Prusa though, for me anyway, is their approach. When i got the very much delayed XL (while of course the MK4$ was released and shipped) i had to wait for months for input shaper, bug fixing and generally making it actually ... mostly , bug free. We had the stringing issues which after a lot of silly excuses they admitted that it was mainly their fault of shipping it with 0.6 nozzles (albeit the overhyped praise of that decision) and we were advised to buy 5 new 0.4 nozzles (on a discount) to solve that issue. Then came the promise of printing with multiple nozzle sizes within a project something that im still waiting. I can do it if i play around but it was supposed to be something that could be done with a few clicks. I'm still waiting for an upgrade for the lack of proper cooling on the main board which it was just a metal case. For the time being im using a printed case with a 5v noctua fan. THATS NOT something you should worry about in a 5k printer. And yes its 5k when you consider the overpriced metal afterthought you call an enclosure. Which now causes overhead of modular bed . Even if it has so many airholes. Prusa was kind enough to send me another controller but that didn't solve the issues. And i stopped asking because what i want is not to collect components but to find a solution. And not to go with a series of repeated tests EVERY time i open a chat. So i used a mod that run a fan on the controller. It improved the situation a bit. Now i get the problem on longer prints. The only solution.. Print with the door open. Beating of course the purpose of buying the lousy 750E (without shipping) so called enclosure. Lets not talk about TPU and the PITA of loading it , the modding it needs for less filament friction and on the nextruder for avoiding curling on the gears with softer filaments.
Personally i dont mind the introduction of INDX. Even if i needed i new multimaterial printer i wouldn't rush to buy it since i learned that Prusa is not so trustworthy with early releases (mmu2 patient also). But the fact remains that Prusa's name, for me at least, DOES NOT worth the price premium they put on their products. The even sell a plastc case as a drybox for 240E. It was cheaper to buy the creality Spacepi x4 for 175E(shipping included). The XL was never handled as a machine that worths 4k from the company. I mean come on. At least print all the parts in PA CF or ABS. PETG parts on a 4k printer? And you talk about "quality"? And years later when is looking that is left behind instead of fixing or improving all its shortcomings you advertise a silicon toolhead, with no release date, that costs 969E. I truly hope INDX to be a fast and optimised solution. And i truly hope that it will be available for other brands also . And i trully hope that snapmaker U1 to be a solid solution. Because i really thing i'll ditch Prusa on my next FFM printer. I already bought an Elegoo Saturn 4 for a quarter of what Prusa is asking for the SLS1 and cheaper even of what Prusa is asking for their curing station. Which i bought a few years back because i thought that Prusa offered something that justified that ridiculous price.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
The sky is falling because they haven’t released an update for it. That’s bad for us as well as for Prusa. I do think they are trying to do this. Something just isn’t working for out for them.
My xl has been rocked solid since I picked it up last year. I haven’t seen anything that makes me regret it.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
The XL at the beginning was loud, buggy etc. Prusa quickly made it right with firmware updates. But unlike my two MK machines, there have been zero hardware upgrade kits for the XL since O originally got it after 18 months of waiting on day on day one preorder. I'd love to see the XL get some love and incremental updates. It's a great machine. I hope prusa shows it some love.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
Firmware updates yes. But people want something they can build on.
I am definitely not interested in index with this printer. I might be a niche in still loving everything this printer has to offer.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
I like the tool-changing on the XL as well. Coming from spending hundreds of hours on an MMU2S, it was night and day improvment over single extruder multiplexing. The MMU was always iffy, and I never counted on it to work. I'm generally confident that the XL tool switches will work, not to mention be blazing fast compared to the old MMU lol. And tpu on the mmu2s wasn't really a thing. I've done several multi-color tpu prints recently. that's my main interest. If they go INDX on the XL that's fine, but I like the 36cm^3 build volume.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
I’ll go INDX on my voron. Same print size as the xl. I just don’t want to go screw with something that works as well as my xl does.
I haven’t tried tpu in it. But now I’m curious.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
yeah, the XL works pretty well. I just spent the morning going back to 6.4.0 and doing a factory reset. I'm doing a three color pla print and that's working. Annoyingly though, I can't make the filament sensor calibration pass. When I first got the printer I found I had to take the spring and ball bearings out of the side filament sensors because they induced too much drag on tpu filament. so I've been running two years with filament sensors(side) turned off. So because I've got one failing/incomplete, it prompts me before every print and I have to continue. As a consequence, even though I've loaded three filaments, it was saying 2 of them weren't loaded and I had to ignore that too. when I went into the calibration for filament sensor, I could clearly see that the extruder filament sensor was working when I would load unload a pla filament strand. oh well it's not the end of the world.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
I see people saying "five years is an eternity in tech time".
Who here has had their XL for five years? This printer is not even three years old. 4800 dollars, and inferior to a Core One L, or just the Core One with INDX! The Core One L is 3000 dollars less at 1800.
It's barely 60mm larger than the Core One L on X and Y and only 30mm larger on Z. And it cannot and probably never will be suitable for printing engineering filaments. The Core One L has a heated build chamber, up to 60C. I just can't get over how laughably inferior my 4800 dollar printer is.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
The XL is a pretty solid machine now. No it doesn't have the fancy enclosure. I personally didn't like prusa's xl enclosure solution and I'd love for them to come out with a kit to convert the xl to look something more like the core one L. It really depends on what you're going to use the printer for. I myself don't do a ton of printing that really needs that 55+C air temp inside the enclosure. I bought the 3dupfitters one mostly to keep the temp stable and to keep dust out. It's not super fair to compare the XL price with 5 tool heads with the Core one L with only one. But to be fair the landscape has changed a good deal since the XL shipped originally. Other players have come in, and more continue to arrive in the area of multi-extruder multi-material. I do continue to like the robust tool changing capability, but I don't see how prusa can continue to sell the XL at the price point it does given the competition.
As I've mentioned before, my main draw to prusa was the upgradability. I'm not sure a ton of other vendors provide such a path. They have been doing this on the MK line, I was hopeful they'd do it on the XL too. Small refinements to continually improve the printing capability and experience.
Prusa, if you're listening, it would go a long way to release an XLS or XL2 and an upgrade path from the original XL to it.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
I see people saying "five years is an eternity in tech time".
Who here has had their XL for five years? This printer is not even three years old. 4800 dollars, and inferior to a Core One L, or just the Core One with INDX! The Core One L is 3000 dollars less at 1800.
It's barely 60mm larger than the Core One L on X and Y and only 30mm larger on Z. And it cannot and probably never will be suitable for printing engineering filaments. The Core One L has a heated build chamber, up to 60C. I just can't get over how laughably inferior my 4800 dollar printer is.
Well, I ORDERED it 5 years ago, didn’t get it until 3…. SSILL2 and I went through that together…. Good times.
I think if Prusa wants to keep the XL relevant, they need different and useful tool heads. Infil from pellets would be really interesting.
RE: The XL is done forever, man. Game over. It's all gone to hell.
As I've mentioned before, my main draw to prusa was the upgradability.
That one of the main issues. Its not the matter of INDX overshadowing the XL. It may be true but unfortunately E3D multi-tool designs came long before the INDX and that what Prusa decided to work at the time. It isn't pleasant to see your 3 year old printer becoming "obsolete" , but thats one of the aspects of quick evolving tech. But Prusa should at least provide a kit with important fixes on their 4k machine. And it should be done long ago. I know that it became a race but still i dont believe Prusa could not provide a kit to upgrade, or rather fix, their lack of proper cooling. And various other aspects. As far as engineered materials and heated chamber. I dont thing their modular bed design, the way it is now , can handle it. The controller underneath its not at all cooled. Also the design of this printer doesnt gives me the impression of being able to hold a uniform temperature within. Lets be honest. This machine was never designed with that in mind. Unfortunately , as i said in my previous email, Prusa's approach on the matter of the XL showed lack of respect to their customers and the money they paid for that product. Yes now it works and the multi head solution works rather well. It feels though, still like a bit of a beta version. And with long due a bundle to turn it to a solid machine. Before even the launch their resources and attention were directed to the MK4, which was presented later and delivered earlier, and after then the core one and now Core L with INDX.
And as for the price , well Prusa still thinks highly of their brand to justified their bloated prices. Look at XL , SLS1, CW1. Old stuff but never repriced. Good thing that other brands are picking up also in terms of features and quality.
In the end there is another lesson here for me. A 3d printer is a tech device. As with other fields it have spikes of rapid progress and change. I should never again buy something and pay for an empty promise of forever upgradability and keeping up. Even Mk3 to Mk4 was proven to be an empty promise. You could do it but with a cost similar to buying a new one.Seriously... 700E to turn it to a 720E printer. And another 560 to turn it to core one. You save a few euros when you could save more if would sell the old Mk3s.