Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
Hello togehther,
I have finished my XL Dual Toolhead Assembly and for two days evreything works fine.
But than the error #17513 (Puppy discovery error. No puppy found) occured the first time on Toolhead one.
Okay, reset the Printer powerd it off and checked the connectors, but all loks fine.
The I restart the print and it finished with no problem.
But in the next two days I ran in this error mostly every print no matter which Toolhead.
At first it helped to slice with the structural inputshaper profil instead of the speed one.
But after two prints the error occured again, an then also every print.
So I reflashed the Firmware 5.1.2 again, but the error occured agian.
After that I started to print with the normal XL Profiles, but the error occured aswell.
Today I checked every connector on the Sandwichboard and the Powersuplies, the only thing i found was that the upper two Mountingscrews of the Sandwichboard were loose. Now they were properly tightened.
Currently I'm printing again in the hope that it only be the two loose screws.
But I am not sure about this, so i put up my oscilloscope to monitor the input Voltage of the Sandwichboard, trigger was set to Voltagedrop under 20V:
Maybe i find an anomaly wich indecates a short or other problem wich causess the error.
Maybe someone else got a problem like that, an can help.
I also stay in contact with Prus Support.
RE: Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
The problem didn't appear again while printing, after I tightened the schrew, shown in the Picture bleow:
But now the error occured at start of a print from Prusa Connect.
Here are some Pictures of the error state:
After restart and starting the print form xLCD all works as intendet.
Hopefully it didn't happen again mid printing.
No Voltage dropdown was recorded by the oscilloscope, so their is no short.
But i will let the oscilloscope still connected, won't know if the error behavior is another while printing.
RE: Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
Morning,
Now I got the error 17513 again, shortly after I started a print:
So I resart the XL and tried again with the same result, a little bit earlyer this time.
Then I shut off the Printer waited a minute and tried it again, this time it prints as intended.
I don't have any idea what that could be, i reflashed the Firmware 3 times but the error keeps appearing randomly at the begining of some prints.
Also checked every connector (Toolheads, Powersuplies, Sandwichboard, Heated Bed) at my printer.
Prusa support tries also to help me out but the error is still randomly appearing.
Next Thing I should try is Flashing to an older Firmware and then back to 5.1.2, maybe that helps.
RE: Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
Hello Novastorm were you able to resolve this issue? We have a Prusa XL with single extruder that is also getting the Puppy error #17513. We have been discussing with Prusa support during 3 different sessions over several weeks for a total of about 10 hours and no solutions yet.
So far we have tried:
-Disconnected/reconnected Sandwich board, Dwarf board, heated bed, bed board cables multiple times.
-Uninstalled/cleaned with compressed air/reinstalled the Buddy XL board,
-Flashed the firmware to latest (5.1.2), oldest (4.7.2), from the Prusa website, from the Github page, from the splash screen , from the hard reset menu...probably flashed the firmware like 25 times at least...and we keep getting the puppy disconnect error.
From a hardware troubleshooting perspective we have found it confusing as twice the machine started working again when we disconnected/reconnected the Dwarf 1 cable at the Dwarf board end....and twice the machine started working again when we unseated/sprayed with compressed air/reseated the Buddy Xl board . Yet the 17513 error keeps coming back.
For the time being our machine is up and running and seems to print ok as long as we don't turn the printer off. If we power cycle the printer we will get the 17604 error so we hit continue and then we get the 17513 error.
To fix it we have to:
-Power off the printer
-Disconnect/reconnect random cables and the Buddy XL board
-Power the printer back on to check if we can boot back up properly to the main menu on the LCD or if we get the errors again
-If we get errors we repeat the above process until it start working again
-Then we leave the printer running (don't shut it off) so we don't get the 17513 error and can continue printing
We plan to finish our current print project and then work with Prusa to start replacing hardware parts until we find the culprit.
Unless anyone has any better ideas?
RE: Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
Hello Todd,
The Odyssey goes on.
I thoght I soveld the issue by reflashing the Firmware 5.1.2 with the fallback method.
But after one week of error free printing, the Buddyboard died in Magic Smoke.
Priter Heated up and then got the same beahvior with the error 17513 only that no error screen occured.
I tried to reset the Printer but no reaction. After Power off and on Printer it doesn't boot only Black screen.
After Removing the Housing of the electronics compartment, i smelld burnt electronics.
This is what i found:
The IC that burned is for RS422/485 BUS Communication.
That matches with our 17513 error.
Today I got a new BuddyBoard.
I testetd it a few hours ago.
It seems that there is a bigger Problem, the XL boots twice and then error 17513 pops up.
Reflashing does nothing, the error is now permanent.
RE:
Tried many things with livechat support, but we aren't able to find a solution.
Fuse of the Sandwich-Board is fine, flashing wont do anything.
Swaping the connectors of the dwarfs and disconecting them won't do anything.
No matter if one two or noone is connected.
On my perspective as electrican, i would assume that there was a short on the Communication BUS, whatever that caused.
But now are all Bus participants not able to communicate.
It could be possible that a terminating resistor is broken or therer is a open end in the BUS.
I will sort that out when Support mailed back.
But i wont start a never ending swap out session, if thats the case Prusa should take the whole XL back and fix it or replace it.
RE: Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
Novastorm thank you for responding with the update concerning the replacement of your Buddy XL board. That is somewhat troubling that you found an overheated IC, replaced the board and yet your problem remains. I hope to work with Prusa to further troubleshoot our machine, replace any parts they mail us and update this thread with our results for the benefit of others who may face a similar issue. I'm going to ask our technician to check the Buddy XL board on our machine to see if that same IC shows signs of melting/burning or whatever you saw on your board.
I'm a mechanical designer; not an electrical engineer so I don't claim any special knowledge on electrical gremlins. However I have this throught: Could a problem like this be caused by a bad ground in the system somewhere? The reason I ask is because it seems odd to me that when we disconnected/reconnected the Dwarf board cable that twice it cleared the 17513 error and we were then able to boot back into the main menu on the LCD screen. But oddly (due to the instructions from our Prusa chat) when we disconnected/reconnected the Buddy XL board that twice cleared the 17513 error as well. And you said that you had some success tightening the screw on the Sandwich board. Those are mechanical changes affecting a wide variety of areas around the printer and not isolated to one location. So...could this be a grounding issue that affects the entire machine?
On all the Prusa websites I read through Google searches they basically recommend two solutions: Check all the cable connections and flash the firmware. Since we have flashed the firmware like 25 times I am kind of doubting that is the issue. I suppose we could have a faulty IC like what you pointed out on the Buddy XL board that could be the culprit. Perhaps the IC wasn't rated with enough margin for the task at hand? Maybe too much heat is applied to it from surrounding components or itself is generating too much heat from too much voltage applied? Again this is all way out of my wheelhouse to properly troubleshoot.
RE:
Hi Todd,
Its interresting that sometimes after reconnecting some of the connectors and the Buddyboard, Printer starts working.
Communication between the Boards should work like most of the BUS Systems, the Master (Buddyboard) sends a signal (like a ping) into the BUS an waits for response of the slave. When slave is ready and everything works it response back to the Master.
Then Master Checks next slave, or stops checking when timer is up or BUS parameters were faulty.
So in your case it wont initalize BUS communication or isn't able to reache the Dwarf.
There are some possiblities what can cause these behavior.
1. Bad Soldering on the Connector of the Buddyboard or the connector of the Sandwichboard for the first Dwarf.
- Did you tried connecting it to the second Dwarf connector?
- When it is runnig ever tried to push the Buddyboard a bit or wiggeled a little on the Dwarfcable near Sandwich board?
- Bad Soldering can also be triggerd by Themal events, you could try to cool the solderingpoits with icespray, or heat it a little, but cooling is safer.
2. Bad crimps on the plug of the Dwarfcable
- Sometimes when the crimp contacts are not propperly crimped it can happen that they are able to move in the Plug and only get randomly contact.
- Also the wireisolation could be crimped in, than you get high resistance or a slack in the crimp connection.
- you can check it by wiggleing the cable while checking continuity or measuring the resistace of all wires from the Dwarf cable and compare the values.
3. Defect Com IC
- Bad Charge of ICs
- Overheated
- Damaged by Voltage peaks
4. Some points from my work experience wtih Communication errors
- Most of the BUS cables are shielded and twisted to protect the BUS signals for electromagnetic fields, bad shielding could cause missreadings of the BUS signals.
(In case of XL the wires are not long, so maybe they didn't need to shield them)
- Wrong or no termination resistance, no communication is possible. (The same when wire resistance is to high, caused by bad connectors or long wires)
- Damaged wires or unisolated wires that come in contact with ground.
- Undervoltage (You can measure the Input Voltage of the Sandwichboard, my got 23,98V DC)
probably Prusa can advise you where you can safely check the power of the Drawfboard.
Does the error appear when the Loadingscreen shows looking for puppies?
My pritter currently tries a rebbot when it messages looking for puppies and when it comes to the point looking for puppies again it gets the error 17513.
Heat could be a problem espaically while the Case is completly closed, only one opening for the wires.
But than, there should be much more of the 5 Tool XL users with the same problems like us.
When my XL runs again, I will take some thermal images.
Grounding is not so Bad on the XL i measured the ressistance to the ground pin of the Powersocket on several spots.
I dont have layouts of the electronic Boards, so i don't know on which poinst grounding is nesccessary for the controllers.
It would also be easier to find the parts that are relevant for communication, and make proper measurements of BUS Signals and so on.
In Industrial automation most of the PLCs generate logs and specifed messages what went wrong in communication.
Maybe the XL also generate Log files, but I am not able to access them, because i cant get to the main Menu with my XL.
Greetings from Germany
RE: Massive Problems with Puppy error #17513
Were either of you able to find the culprit? I have the same issue, the IC for RS232/485 was burnt up, so they sent me another buddy board. Upon statup, I recieved the same error message.