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gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@piranhamousemods

Nice simple fix. I'll see if I have a workable rubber band running around and give that a try if I do. Thanks.

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 12/11/2020 1:59 am
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame
Posted by: @gnat

@piranhamousemods

Nice simple fix. I'll see if I have a workable rubber band running around and give that a try if I do. Thanks.

I put a rubber band on #2 last night. It hasn't quite been 12 hours yet, but the paper was still dry this morning which is a definite improvement from the stock approach.

In other news I haven't gotten so much as a "thanks for the updates, let me pass it on to SL1 support" since sending Prusa update after testing the new tanks on Monday😡

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 12/11/2020 1:25 pm
vintagepc
(@vintagepc)
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

Fortunately, silicone loves sticking to itself so as long as the surface is free of contamination and fuzzies/loose bits, finger oils, etc there should be no issue adding a second thin layer. 

Posted : 12/11/2020 2:25 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame
Posted by: @piranhamousemods

I was dealing with the same issue and ended up adding a rubber band as a sealing. Works great 3 weeks in, 4 prints a day. Order is: tank frame, rubber band, FEP, screws.

That's awesome, didn't consider a rubber band. Also don't have any rubber bands around the house surprisingly. Thanks for the info, really appreciate seeing all this testing and ideas to fix the slow leaks!

Posted : 12/11/2020 3:21 pm
MikeH
(@mikeh-2)
Trusted Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@ryan-c29

Are we talking an actual rubber band here or an O-ring?

Posted : 12/11/2020 7:12 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame
Posted by: @gnat

In other news I haven't gotten so much as a "thanks for the updates, let me pass it on to SL1 support" since sending Prusa update after testing the new tanks on Monday😡

So I sent a "hello?" email this morning and finally got a response. Here is the first paragraph after apologies for the response delay:

From what you described I believe that there's nothing wrong here. The Tanks are design to hold Resin inside and not water. Since the water has a different consistency than the water it is normal that over time the water will find a way to get out, normally for water proof devices there's a rubber seal that prevents the water to go away. The tank is meant to hold resins only that are much thicker in consistency.

They go on to state that resin should be emptied from the tank between each print which ignores the various levels of waste that incurs for printers seeing regular/constant usage. It also doesn't address how cleaning it and then immediately filling it back up (in the high use situation) would do nothing to prolong time between leaks nor that the seeming additional delay for low use printers is just a fallacy.

My response was long and pointed...

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 12/11/2020 7:15 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@michaelhenry

@piranhamousemods is using an actual rubberband. I'll be doing the test with an o-ring hear later today (delivery should arrive today)

Posted : 12/11/2020 7:15 pm
gnat liked
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@gnat

Ya, that's complete bull as resin gets in between the seal even with regular cleanings, and as you pointed out, frequently using your printer will just result in constant source of fresh resin to add to that slow leak over time. This in addition with inconsistent resin viscosity leads to a known failure point over time. This is a bad design and needs to be changed to ensure consistent reliability for the end user.

Posted : 12/11/2020 7:19 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

Package arrived with new factory installed tank & FEP. Since @gnat already did a water test on 2 factory tanks and got a failure on both, I guess I'll do the messy resin version. Wish me luck, also going to go setup the o-ring test. New post to follow.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WWvMfUzNx2Mgt4VE8

Posted : 12/11/2020 8:40 pm
gnat liked
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@ryan-c29

Good luck.

How long do you plan to let it sit for?

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 12/11/2020 8:54 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@gnat

Per Prusa's own Siraya Tech Fast Black profile, a 150mm high (max build volume) object printed at Normal (0.05mm layer height) takes 12 hours. So ideally that's how long I will test it and check the results. Assuming my wife doesn't kill me for the smell in the spare bathroom first. I'll be going to bed before the 12h mark hits, I'll check it in the morning, which will be at the 17h mark. Leaving resin in a tank overnight isn't an uncommon thing, so I feel this is still an appropriate test. Only drawback is that the resin will not continually stired like it would be during an active print. Unsure what impact that will have on the results.

On the flip side, the O-Ring fits perfectly without the $80 worth of ultra low profile screws, attached the images to the previous shared link. So if that works, that's like $8 for 10 O-Rings...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WWvMfUzNx2Mgt4VE8

Posted : 12/11/2020 9:12 pm
gnat liked
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame
Posted by: @ryan-c29

@gnat

Per Prusa's own Siraya Tech Fast Black profile, a 150mm high (max build volume) object printed at Normal (0.05mm layer height) takes 12 hours. So ideally that's how long I will test it and check the results. Assuming my wife doesn't kill me for the smell in the spare bathroom first. I'll be going to bed before the 12h mark hits, I'll check it in the morning, which will be at the 17h mark. Leaving resin in a tank overnight isn't an uncommon thing, so I feel this is still an appropriate test. Only drawback is that the resin will not continually stired like it would be during an active print. Unsure what impact that will have on the results.

Those times should cover their "empty it between every print" suggestion is you aren't printing frequently. Not so much for how it would stand up to a week or more constant printing. I don't know how the stirring effect (or lack thereof) might impact the test, but I would expect the separation of the part from the FEP to be more of a factor since it would be moving/stretching the FEP.

Since I had been leaving resin in the tank for extended time I printed a cover and it had the added benefit of cutting the smell way down too.

On the flip side, the O-Ring fits perfectly without the $80 worth of ultra low profile screws, attached the images to the previous shared link. So if that works, that's like $8 for 10 O-Rings...
https://photos.app.goo.gl/WWvMfUzNx2Mgt4VE8

Did you pop it on the printer to make sure the screw heads are indeed low enough? I like the rubber band idea for a simple easy fix if you have the right size on hand, but a real o-ring would be ideal. At $8 for 10 that certainly isn't breaking the bank when you figure that even in the worst case you should get a handful of FEP changes out of each one (probably a lot more than that).

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 12/11/2020 9:24 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame
Posted by: @gnat

Did you pop it on the printer to make sure the screw heads are indeed low enough? I like the rubber band idea for a simple easy fix if you have the right size on hand, but a real o-ring would be ideal. At $8 for 10 that certainly isn't breaking the bank when you figure that even in the worst case you should get a handful of FEP changes out of each one (probably a lot more than that).

Yup, put it on the printer to ensure it doesn't cause a problem. The existing screws have enough distance between them and the printer that it is not a problem with these o-rings and how much the squish down and out of the way.

Posted : 12/11/2020 9:36 pm
gnat liked
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@ryan-c29

Awesome. Hopefully they contain the water equally well.

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Posted : 12/11/2020 9:41 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

Last check before bed was at the 26 hour mark and the rubber band solution is still looking good.

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 13/11/2020 6:00 am
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

16H mark (I woke up early) and it appeared that a slow leak was discovered during tank cleaning process on the factory Tank & FEP.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/WWvMfUzNx2Mgt4VE8

In the photos, you can see that the tank did not deposit any resin on the paper towels over the 16h and after tilting to drain the tank you can see that the Resin has indeed seeped it's way up over the lip and made it's way towards the frame quite easily. The big question was whether or not the resin was able to make it's way through the FEP & Tank where the frame is pushing against. Looking at the lower corner during the cleaning process, it appeared as though there was pooling of resin there as it was definitely darker than the surrounding tank and glistened slightly. Hard to take a picture of this, but based on prior experience this looked like the result of a slow leak. So, bit the bullet to disassemble the factory tank.

Upon disassembly, you can see that there is quite a significant amount of resin that has made it's way over the lip and towards the frame, now if that resin was under the frame before disassembly is hard to tell with out seeing the result of a slow leak. Looking at the removed frame, we can see signs of resin on the frame itself, still a possibility that happened during disassembly. So going towards the lower corner, we can see that the FEP was actually stretched over that corner slightly and that was what we were seeing during the earlier pictures. Looking closely at the FEP installed at the factory, you can see the holes were stretched to the point where the frame just barely covered them in some cases.

So in conclusion while this is not a definitive "Didn't leak" or "Leaked" answer, given the hole stretching, and the quantity of resin, I feel like the takeaways seem to indicate that while this worked for 16h, it's unreliable at best.

Posted : 13/11/2020 2:21 pm
gnat liked
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@ryan-c29

That's a bummer, but not unexpected about the resin test. My take is that if the resin/water makes it past the lip then it is only a matter of time before it gets around the FEP. How much time seems to be luck based on hard to quantify variables (texture of the tank in that area, viscosity of the resin, if it uses a screw hole or has to travel to the edge, etc...).

Am I understanding those pictures correctly that the o-ring test failed too?

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 13/11/2020 2:33 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@gnat

Na, the o-ring test is still going strong. No leaks even with water.

Posted : 13/11/2020 2:45 pm
gnat
 gnat
(@gnat)
Noble Member
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame
Posted by: @ryan-c29

@gnat

Na, the o-ring test is still going strong. No leaks even with water.

So all the dark in the corner at the bottom of the lip in this shot is resin? 😮 

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipPFG7xh2eZxdw3s3DI9e8HUW-K4Ibdn3gt1DiGeKNu84TNVhTWKOREiB3sB8_nHTQ/photo/AF1QipNeCcj5N5LxOwthoYA2KTt9rqL9ckK6oh5GLp6a?key=WXNDOXZhRE8xQnpqcDlRQnNqRDdLdEcwTU45OUNn

 

 

P.S. The rubber band still appears to be holding strong this morning.

MMU tips and troubleshooting
Posted : 13/11/2020 2:53 pm
Xulkal
(@xulkal)
Trusted Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: Resin Leaks between tank and frame

@gnat

On that photo, the arrow is pointing to the FEP film that curled up along the outer edge of the frame. Then in the second image highlighted in green are the dry spots under the FEP, the remainder was wet with resin in the corner. So it wasn't an insignificant level of resin, which is why I lean towards even a factory installed FEP being unreliable at best with resin even though this single test didn't fail. Bottom line to me is that an o-ring is a very cheap and reliable way to ensure the tank is leak free and that Prusa should update their stock and installation guides to include o-rings. This will only improve reliability and reduce the risk of tank failures at very little cost.

This post was modified 2 years ago by Xulkal
Posted : 13/11/2020 4:17 pm
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