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Jonathan Newman
(@jonathan-newman)
Active Member
MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

So I have two MK4, a MK3.9, and a Mini+ All of these have both standard and IS profiles (well the MK3.9 uses a standard MK4 Profile in non-IS), I'm not able to find a MK3.5 non IS profile, nor is there any instruction on how to use the printer without IS.

I'm a firm believer in 2x speed = 4x wear, that is to say running a printer twice as fast will give me a quarter its life-span. I have no problem running a print long if that means I don't have to replace rods, belts, and bearings twice a year, I have many printers and do not need IS.

I would be fine if the answer was to simply set the print speed default to 50%. Will the MK4 BGCODE work on a MK3.5 the same way it works on a MK3.9?

 

Posted : 15/02/2024 11:43 pm
reefab
(@reefab)
Member
RE:

I would like to know this too. I just finished the upgrade and I was surprised that PrusaSlicer did have profiles with InputShaping only.

 

Are we intended to use the base MK3S profiles for usage without input shaping?

This post was modified 2 months ago by reefab
Posted : 17/02/2024 1:37 pm
JoanTabb
(@joantabb)
Veteran Member Moderator
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

I Believe You select input shaping in Prusa slicer (Rather obtusely) the "Structural" settings invoke Input shaping, the "Speed" settings do not invoke Input shaping/

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 18/02/2024 8:36 am
Jonathan Newman
(@jonathan-newman)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

All five of the default settings there are input shaper profiles. Notice there is no draft mode, or ultra-detail. In effect this printer profile has decreased my printer's layer height capacity by half! (I used to be able to do 0.05). 

Posted : 18/02/2024 8:06 pm
Jonathan Newman
(@jonathan-newman)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

I just email support on this. it seems a shame to loose half the printers resolution.

Also I tried a MK4 non InputShaper GCODE on the MK3.5 and got a warning that the file I was printing was not for the printer... So using the base MK4 profile is out too...

I'm all for InputShaper and speed, but not at the cost of print quality and printer life... Kind of takes the MK3.5 out of my farm for a while while Prusa get's their act together. I was going to upgrade the rest of my MK3S printers so I can take the Raspi-Pis out, but this kinda kills that plan...

Posted : 18/02/2024 8:28 pm
lambert liked
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
RE:

Surely how much filament gets laid down on the build plate determines its life - not how fast it does. 

i3 Mk3 [aug 2018] upgrade>>> i3MK3/S+[Dec 2023]

Posted : 19/02/2024 10:40 am
Jonathan Newman
(@jonathan-newman)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

That's a fair statement. But I believe it argues the other side of the same coin. 

Let's say for argument sake the life of a printer is 1000 Benchy's.  Normally it takes about 2-hours for one of those, so we are talking 2000 hours.  With input shaper we print twice as fast, now we are at 1000 hours of printer life.  The mean-time-between-failure has been halved. I'm going to be a sad nerd sooner.

The math kinda works out there nicely, but wear-and-tear is not a linear scale, it's an exponential scale. It is possible to print so fast the printer will tear itself apart, doing that on the first print, it might not even succeed netting us a MTBF of zero Benchy's.

This is only half the problem. We are still missing two "ULTRADETAIL" profiles and a "DRAFT" detail.... 

Posted : 19/02/2024 5:25 pm
lambert liked
miroslav.h4
(@miroslav-h4)
Honorable Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

 

Posted by: @joantabb

I Believe You select input shaping in Prusa slicer (Rather obtusely) the "Structural" settings invoke Input shaping, the "Speed" settings do not invoke Input shaping/

regards Joan

I'm afraid you're wrong. All the profiles in the menu in your picture are with IS. PrusaSlicer does not offer profiles for Mk3.5 without IS. Check out the configuration menu in PrusaSlicer. Unlike MK4, which offers profiles without IS and with IS, for MK3.5 there is no offer of profiles without IS. The same applies to profiles for MK3.9. If I were to print without IS, the profiles for the original MK3 or MK3+ would probably have to be used. If I'm not mistaken, turning IS on and off is indicated in the start section (code M862.6 P"Input shaper"; FW feature check) and the end section (code M593 X T2 F0; disable IS and M593 Y T2 F0; disable IS) entered in the printer profile.

Posted : 21/02/2024 8:04 pm
Hello
(@hello)
Noble Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

@reefab @td @john @miroslav-h4 0lease comment here. https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/issues/12335

Posted by: @jonathan-newman

So I have two MK4, a MK3.9, and a Mini+ All of these have both standard and IS profiles (well the MK3.9 uses a standard MK4 Profile in non-IS), I'm not able to find a MK3.5 non IS profile, nor is there any instruction on how to use the printer without IS.

I'm a firm believer in 2x speed = 4x wear, that is to say running a printer twice as fast will give me a quarter its life-span. I have no problem running a print long if that means I don't have to replace rods, belts, and bearings twice a year, I have many printers and do not need IS.

I would be fine if the answer was to simply set the print speed default to 50%. Will the MK4 BGCODE work on a MK3.5 the same way it works on a MK3.9?

 

 

Please help me out by downloading a model it's free and easy but really helps me out https://www.printables.com/@Hello_474427/models

Posted : 26/02/2024 8:28 am
Hello
(@hello)
Noble Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

 

Posted by: @miroslav-h4

 

Posted by: @joantabb

I Believe You select input shaping in Prusa slicer (Rather obtusely) the "Structural" settings invoke Input shaping, the "Speed" settings do not invoke Input shaping/

regards Joan

I'm afraid you're wrong. All the profiles in the menu in your picture are with IS. PrusaSlicer does not offer profiles for Mk3.5 without IS. Check out the configuration menu in PrusaSlicer. Unlike MK4, which offers profiles without IS and with IS, for MK3.5 there is no offer of profiles without IS. The same applies to profiles for MK3.9. If I were to print without IS, the profiles for the original MK3 or MK3+ would probably have to be used. If I'm not mistaken, turning IS on and off is indicated in the start section (code M862.6 P"Input shaper"; FW feature check) and the end section (code M593 X T2 F0; disable IS and M593 Y T2 F0; disable IS) entered in the printer profile.

Update, from the devs. The prusa mk3.5 doesent have and wont have non input shapeing options. By the sounds of it. 🙁

Please help me out by downloading a model it's free and easy but really helps me out https://www.printables.com/@Hello_474427/models

Posted : 26/02/2024 7:19 pm
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

So, does Input shaper produce demonstrably worse prints?

i3 Mk3 [aug 2018] upgrade>>> i3MK3/S+[Dec 2023]

Posted : 26/02/2024 9:50 pm
Hello
(@hello)
Noble Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

 

Posted by: @john-6

So, does Input shaper produce demonstrably worse prints?

Its not ment to but im not surw. Once i get my kit i will do some tests

Please help me out by downloading a model it's free and easy but really helps me out https://www.printables.com/@Hello_474427/models

Posted : 26/02/2024 10:21 pm
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

Thanks: Look forward to seeing your results.

I am far from convinced IS will wear out the printer any faster, your logic seems false to me. If anything the printer might last longer as components such as the heating elements and power supply are only working for half the time. 

i3 Mk3 [aug 2018] upgrade>>> i3MK3/S+[Dec 2023]

Posted : 27/02/2024 4:45 am
John
 John
(@john-6)
Reputable Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

@hello - wasn't meaning to direct my wear out comments to you - I blame the edit timer!!

]

i3 Mk3 [aug 2018] upgrade>>> i3MK3/S+[Dec 2023]

Posted : 27/02/2024 4:52 am
Hello
(@hello)
Noble Member
RE:

All good, ive only just ordered my mk3.5 kit so pr9bs be here next week hopefuly. Hmm well things like the stepper drivers could wear out faster due to more current going to them, stepper motor bearings could wear quicker. But  im really not sure if prusa use them ( which they do) in their print farms with is them it carnt do that mucj more wear 

Posted by: @john-6

@hello - wasn't meaning to direct my wear out comments to you - I blame the edit timer!!

]

 

Please help me out by downloading a model it's free and easy but really helps me out https://www.printables.com/@Hello_474427/models

Posted : 27/02/2024 7:22 am
Kenour
(@kenour)
Estimable Member
RE:

Another vote for a 0.20mm QUALITY profile without IS. It does seem to ride the old girl rather hard, and I have already noticed some odd issues. Most notably, fat corners, even with a 0.4mm chamfer, I'm getting blobby corners on my calibration cross, whereas it used to be very sharp on the MK3.

This post was modified 2 months ago by Kenour
Posted : 27/02/2024 2:11 pm
TD
 TD
(@td)
Active Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

If for a reason that I don’t know you want to print with no input shaper (slow) why don’t you just slow down the speeds of the MK3.5 to those used by the MK3S?  You can compare the settings in slicer and adjust a custom profile. 

If I don’t see issues with the print quality I will never slow it down. That is the whole point of the upgrade. Right?

Posted : 27/02/2024 2:33 pm
Jonathan Newman
(@jonathan-newman)
Active Member
Topic starter answered:
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

Right now I'm most concerned that the 3.5 does not have a draft mode in 0.3mm, or an ultra detail mode in 0.07 or 0.05mm layer height. It seems that adding IS has increased performance at the cost of detail. 

Running the printer slower will not give me back layer height profiles.

As for running the printer for less time giving it less wear, consider that a faster printer has to keep the heater core on more to compensate for the faster flow of filament. I believe we will see heater usage and in general electronics usage/wear will be linear to the speed since there is a fixed MTBF on those components. It's the moving parts I'm concerned with.

Posted : 28/02/2024 4:55 pm
Jake
 Jake
(@jake-13)
Active Member
RE:

 

Posted by: @jonathan-newman

Right now I'm most concerned that the 3.5 does not have a draft mode in 0.3mm, or an ultra detail mode in 0.07 or 0.05mm layer height. It seems that adding IS has increased performance at the cost of detail. 

I did some research into that and I read something about how the standard Mk3s/+ extruder is already maxing out it's extrusion rate at the .2mm layer height profile and that running higher than that can run into underextrusion issues. I'm pretty sure that was somewhere on Prusa site but I can't find the specific link right now.

I did some tests on my freshly upgraded mk3.5 with a custom .3mm layer height and I was getting some hollow pits at the beginning of layers and in between wall extrusions which seems to back up that statement. Granted the prints still roughly came out fine but there was definitely a quality penalty for the reduction of print time. 

This post was modified 1 month ago by Jake
Posted : 04/03/2024 9:31 pm
TD
 TD
(@td)
Active Member
RE: MK3.5 Non-Input Shaper Profile

100% agreed! It appears they raised the nozzle temperature by about 10°C to offset the increased speed.

I discovered yesterday that, even with the new MK3.5 board and screen, you can still print MK3S/+ gcode files. So, for those seeking the excellent MK3S profile, it can be used post-upgrade.

Unfortunately, with the upgrade, the speed is noticeable, but the quality isn't quite there yet. Hopefully, they will fine-tune the MK3.5 for improved results.

Posted : 05/03/2024 4:23 am
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