Is this a case of Déjà Vu?  

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

I'm 20 hours in and yet to get a successful print.

Unrelated but related: I have an engineering degree and graduated with honors, I'm not a complete idiot.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

seems like allot of problems come from the gears being the wrong size. you could check yours and see before you start.

you could ask for new gears, or wait to see if they release firmware that calibrates each filament feed..

or you can send it to me.. 😀 ill send you mine when it gets here 😀

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

seems like allot of problems come from the gears being the wrong size. you could check yours and see before you start.

you could ask for new gears, or wait to see if they release firmware that calibrates each filament feed..

or you can send it to me.. 😀 ill send you mine when it gets here 😀

I measured my gears and they were 6.3, 6.4, 6.4, 6.4, 6.3 - so I'm not super hopeful that the firmware is going to help me.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

those are close, they might just work 😀 think the main thing is they are the same.(ish)

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

I bought the MMU 1.0, and before I ever received it the problems were so plenty, and user reviews so bad, I never installed it. It sits in a box on my floor. So fast-forward to MMU 2.0. This was the amazing version that was supposed to fix all the problems of MMU 1.0. So I ordered the upgrade. And again, it seems to be another that was released before it was ready. One review on Youtube gives it "3 poops," although he got it working better with several tweaks.

So my question, has anyone gotten this to work without spending hours and hours to debug it? Or should I just keep this one on my floor too and wait for WWU 3.0? There is actually one on Kickstarter that uses two motors instead of three or four.

Hi allen,

Yes it is possible to print without hours of tuning, if you have the MMU2 on your floor, what a pity to let it there !
And you don't need to be an engineer, just curious and patient.

See my topic: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/general-discussion-announcements-and-releases-f53/fresh-mm-upgarde-and-first-prints-t25075.html

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

I bought the MMU 1.0, and before I ever received it the problems were so plenty, and user reviews so bad, I never installed it. It sits in a box on my floor. So fast-forward to MMU 2.0. This was the amazing version that was supposed to fix all the problems of MMU 1.0. So I ordered the upgrade. And again, it seems to be another that was released before it was ready. One review on Youtube gives it "3 poops," although he got it working better with several tweaks.

Shame to have bought both and not even attempt to get them installed.

I guess my advice would depend on what you want. If you want something that's going to work almost flawlessly once you're done with initial assembly and calibration, the MMU is not that. Neither is the Palette+ or any other reasonably priced solution I'm aware of. Multimaterial printing for the hobbyist just isn't there yet.

But if you're willing to put some time into learning how the machine works and getting it tweaked and tuned (which could be frustrating at times), then the MMU is likely to reward that effort

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Had mmu2 for 3 weeks. My failure rate is like 5 failures for every success. I've tried so many tweaks:
ramming settings
Rearranging hobbed gears
Modding sensor cover to eliminate little ptfe
Changing loading speeds
Printing with different temps
Reducing filament path resistance

It's been so frustrating. I'm still getting layer skips that ruin prints. Making the waste in a purge block just that much more painful. The layer skips in particular are a problem because the mk3/mmu2 can't detect the issue b4 it happens unlike other loading/unloading issues where u can at least have a chance to fix the problem b4 ruining your print. I'd leave it in box. I waited almost a year for this mmu2 from Prusa......why wait so long if this is result. A horrible out of box experience. No one here has had a successful 1st MMU2 print. I'm a customer not a beta tester.

Firmware needs works
Slic3r needs work
Metal cutting blade in plastic selector needs redesign

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Honestly, it should either work or it doesn't. If you look at the comments on this board, there lots of theories, just like with the MMU 1.0 If I get a free unit because I'm a beta tester, that is one thing, but if I pay full price for it, that is a different matter.

No, my MMU 2.0 won't be shipped until January, so not sitting on the floor YET. By the time I actually received my MMU 1.0, it wasn't technically discontinued, but I think Joseph had given up on it. Not really a good way to run a business.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Had mmu2 for 3 weeks. My failure rate is like 5 fialures for every success. I've tried so many tweaks:
ramming settings
Rearranging hobbed gears
Modding sensor cover to eliminate little ptfe
Changing loading speeds
Printing with different temps
Reducing filament path resistance

It's been so frustrating. I'm still getting layer skips that ruin prints. Making the waste in a purge block just that much more painful. The layer skips in particular are a problem because the mk3/mmu2 can't detect the issue b4 it happens unlike other loading/unloading issues where u can at least have a chance to fix the problem b4 ruining your print. I'd leave it in box. I waited almost a year for this mmu2 from Prusa......why wait so long if this is result. A horrible out of box experience. No one here has had a successful 1st MMU2 print. I'm a customer not a beta tester.

Firmware needs works
Slic3r needs work
Metal cutting blade in plastic selector needs redesign

Have you tried different filament brands?

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Have you tried different filament brands?

Yes I have tried different filaments. Prusa, Hatchbox, Inland, eSun, 3D Solutech.
But after more than 6 months of development, at product release to customers no ramming settings guide exist. So I've had varying levels of success. Without a guide were're all just guessing. I'm still a fan boy. Just sharing my experiences, which appear to be common.

Going from a slice and forget MK3 to a constant issue mmu2 hasnt been fun or what I've come to expect from Prusa.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

What me really disappointed is, that Prusa delivers these MMU 2.0 Kits nearly a year too late, with a very poor quality and then presents the new SLA product. I think he lost focus.

Today I did some code review of the MMU 2.0 controller, and what should I say... I wonder really, if the coders get paid for their work, of if it comes form high school students. Please refer to https://github.com/prusa3d/MM-control-01/issues

Until now, I've put nearly 30h into that "product". Without any reasonable results and many frustrating experiences.

Just my 2 cents.
Karl

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Sorry prusa for this write up, I was really happy with the MK3 and all stuff from Prusa, but the mmu issues are just frustrating!

I have a lying around mmu as it is not working, not even in single mode as there are also more than enough issues. Ok I thought first units / firmware versions will contain issue for sure, I have had no problem with that.
I thought I will give them some time to release another firmware and correct “some” of the issues. So after one month prusa released a new firmware with one change which is not even more than a few days of work in my opinion, what did the devs do in that month? Is the MK3 and MMU out of their interest as the SL1 will come?

By the way a guy on facebook made his own homebrew mmu with arduino and has a better running version than a lot of us - he is doing his own code and has a come farer than the devs from prusa.

Anyway tomorrow I will contact the chat as they should have a solution for me to get my mmu working, as this is supposed from a “finished” product, isn’t it?

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Sorry prusa for this write up, I was really happy with the MK3 and all stuff from Prusa, but the mmu issues are just frustrating!

I have a lying around mmu as it is not working, not even in single mode as there are also more than enough issues. Ok I thought first units / firmware versions will contain issue for sure, I have had no problem with that.
I thought I will give them some time to release another firmware and correct “some” of the issues. So after one month prusa released a new firmware with one change which is not even more than a few days of work in my opinion, what did the devs do in that month? Is the MK3 and MMU out of their interest as the SL1 will come?

By the way a guy on facebook made his own homebrew mmu with arduino and has a better running version than a lot of us - he is doing his own code and has a come farer than the devs from prusa.

Anyway tomorrow I will contact the chat as they should have a solution for me to get my mmu working, as this is supposed from a “finished” product, isn’t it?

Interesting.... Care to link the Facebook post of home brew mmu2 firmware.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

I've got a Mk3 that's been working great, added the MMU2 and it's working. I wasted a fair amount of time fiddling because the setup was not well explained. In particular, calibrating the distance to the hobbed gears is critical and not at all obvious in the instructions, and the meanings of the three buttons on the MMU2 are not well documented, But now it's working, thanks to the community forums. And I can only imagine that the manual will be updated to reflect everyone's input, as was done on the MK3.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

I bought the MMU 1.0, and before I ever received it the problems were so plenty. ...


Had mmu2 for 3 weeks. My failure rate is like 5 failures for every success. ...


What me really disappointed is, that Prusa delivers these MMU 2.0 Kits nearly a year too late, with a very poor quality and then presents the new SLA product. I think he lost focus. ...


... Is the MK3 and MMU out of their interest as the SL1 will come?...

Hello guys,
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and worries. We understand your frustration. I just want to ensure you that we did not lost any focus with SL1 being introduced - this product has its own separate development team.
It is true that the MMU came in with roughly a year of delay, but remember why: it was announced very early as we originally thought we will just continue and improve the MMU1 design (btw the MMU1 support has NOT been discontinued), but after a few months, we have decided to completely redesign it, hence the huge delay.
We are always trying to push the technology forward, while keeping it accessible and affordable to an everyday hobbyist - unfortunately, this also means that we are taking upon ourselves all the development and solving of all the bugs, which takes time. Please rest assured that our main focus IS on the MMU2, firmware update with calibration for every hobbed gear is being worked on, Slic3r will be more and more adapted and features will be added, and, last but not least, the manual and the troubleshooting guide will be updated, thanks to the users remarks and experiences.

TLDR: We are aware of the fact that all these delays and MMU2 birth pains are extremely discouraging. We sincerely apologize for that, and please be assured that we are doing our best.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Hi guys,
thanks for the feedback and I'm sorry that the MMU2 doesn't perform as expected, it might be that your unit has some hardware issues and in that case, please contact our support to discuss it. We had a lot of training, every member of the support team build one or more MMU2 units, they should be able to provide you with the help you need.

Let me give you my personal view on the things mentioned here:

-> SL1 is a printer made by a brand new team. Majority of the team are new colleagues with expert SLA experience. Therefore, working on a new Prusa SLA printer didn't steer the focus from our Original Prusa i3 printers.

-> MK3 is still getting a lot of attention, this year several firmware updates, including one, which made great changes to the code. Recently many new printed parts (almost every part is changed) improving the performance and making the assembly easier. New textile sleeves for the entire printer. Several updates to the print and printer settings. Many of those changes based on the feedback from you, which I'm thankful for, as it helps me to improve the assembly manual.

-> MMU2 this upgrade got an attention unlike any other printer so far. There are MMU2 units in almost every office across the company, hundreds maybe thousands of prints till today and we are still working on new materials, settings, tweaks. Apart from in-house testing, we've reached to the most experienced members in our community and tested MMU2 with them. The design itself was changed many times, tested, another improvement found, tests again. Multi-material technology isn't as easy as a single material printer and many factors can influence the printer. The assembly has to be perfect (namely the alignments), filaments have to be good and consistent, proper settings from us, etc. I see way more successful prints both inside and outside the company than with the MMU1. I've also seen some unsuccessful users, but quite often the printer is modified, custom print profiles, different nozzles and so on. I'm not saying it is your case, but any deviation from the default setup (stock printer, stock profiles) might influence the MMU2 and cause the prints to fail.

FYI just yesterday, we've released a new firmware for the MMU2 unit enabling a calibration for all five filament paths individually. The guide is finished, just last tweaks today and it will be released.

Lastly, regarding bugs in our firmware and software, please issue them on a GitHub and if you enjoy coding, I'm sure we still opened to new members, who can help us push the 3D printers even further 😉

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Hi guys,
thanks for the feedback and I'm sorry that the MMU2 doesn't perform as expected, it might be that your unit has some hardware issues and in that case, please contact our support to discuss it. We had a lot of training, every member of the support team build one or more MMU2 units, they should be able to provide you with the help you need.

Let me give you my personal view on the things mentioned here:

-> SL1 is a printer made by a brand new team. Majority of the team are new colleagues with expert SLA experience. Therefore, working on a new Prusa SLA printer didn't steer the focus from our Original Prusa i3 printers.

-> MK3 is still getting a lot of attention, this year several firmware updates, including one, which made great changes to the code. Recently many new printed parts (almost every part is changed) improving the performance and making the assembly easier. New textile sleeves for the entire printer. Several updates to the print and printer settings. Many of those changes based on the feedback from you, which I'm thankful for, as it helps me to improve the assembly manual.

-> MMU2 this upgrade got an attention unlike any other printer so far. There are MMU2 units in almost every office across the company, hundreds maybe thousands of prints till today and we are still working on new materials, settings, tweaks. Apart from in-house testing, we've reached to the most experienced members in our community and tested MMU2 with them. The design itself was changed many times, tested, another improvement found, tests again. Multi-material technology isn't as easy as a single material printer and many factors can influence the printer. The assembly has to be perfect (namely the alignments), filaments have to be good and consistent, proper settings from us, etc. I see way more successful prints both inside and outside the company than with the MMU1. I've also seen some unsuccessful users, but quite often the printer is modified, custom print profiles, different nozzles and so on. I'm not saying it is your case, but any deviation from the default setup (stock printer, stock profiles) might influence the MMU2 and cause the prints to fail.

FYI just yesterday, we've released a new firmware for the MMU2 unit enabling a calibration for all five filament paths individually. The guide is finished, just last tweaks today and it will be released.

Lastly, regarding bugs in our firmware and software, please issue them on a GitHub and if you enjoy coding, I'm sure we still opened to new members, who can help us push the 3D printers even further 😉

thank you for your response and helpfulness. it helps.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

Thank you martinlexa and jakub.d for your opinion related to our posts.

As you mentioned that we should contact the support team if we have a not working mmu, I did that already a month ago and I am in contact with Šimon Doubek about that.
Unfortunately he was not able to provide me assistance to troubleshoot. I have also created a github issue.

My printer is stock, settings are stock, mmu is stock - as I did not wanted to have some issues from other upgrades. I also just use prusa filament to have basically the same what the devs used to test the mmu unit.

So what is your suggestion about the issue? The root cause of my load / unload issue and also the missing layers is mostly based on bad tips after several layers, which are from my opinion coming from not optimal slic3r settings (and I not know how to optimize them without printing several parts)
The second issue is, that the firmware is not able to detect the failed load / unload correctly and from my point of view the most important feature in the firmware is to enable the optical sensor to prevent missing layers.
The homebrew mmu from the guy on facebook has a second mechanical sensor on the extruder, maybe this is also something what you should consider.

At the moment I would not care about a "load / unload" issue if the printer warn me early enough before I get missing layers. It would be still annoying, but I would not have a failed print. The actual situation with the missing layers causes a lot of wastet material and is frustrating. I have checked all things several times (thanks to Chris Warcockies video) but it did only improve the layers changes slighty - as stringing and bas tips are the main issue I am having.

Any feedback from the experts on this would be appreciated.

Re: Is this a case of Déjà Vu?

We sincerely apologize for that, and please be assured that we are doing our best.
If that firmware for the MMU2 is your "best", perhaps you should try to find better programmers.

Btw, we could help you on that, but I think doing it for free is not appropriate, considering 10k sold units with an estimated profit of 150€/unit, which gives 1.5Mio € profit. For that money you can pay salaries for 15-20 top of the edge developers for a whole year! Feel free to contact us at www.team14.at

Greets, Karl