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Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

Gnat,

I understand exactly what you are implying/insinuating. I disagree, and believe that you are assigning intent on my words, incorrectly. I will make clearer below. Again, as Jakub said, not our personal battleground. Take it to messages if you want to discuss/clarify, but I'll let you have the last word here.

The extruder on the mmu2s is included,  as part of the mmu2s system and upgrade/system. If you don't have the extruder R4, it's not a MMU2S or otherwise it doesn't function as a MMU2s, technically. It has everything to do with it.
Without the R4 extruder, it's not a mmu2s - it's just a MMU2 on a MK3, because there is no IR sensor to trigger once the filament hits the bondtechs. That's what makes it a S.
Change my mind.

Quoting Gnat: "You really need to get past your anger and read what other people are saying across the forum."
You have no idea what my emotions are at this point, toward Prusa Research, but this is exactly what I am talking about...
If I am correcting you, that doesn't mean I'm angry - it means you're wrong about what's in my mind. It sounds like you're assigning, in an effort to discredit/smear me personally.

In my post, if you read it for understanding - rather than read it for gotchas/ways to react/trash me....to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR....
I did say, that I trust Prusa Research enough, that I'm actually positive about the fact that they are making a major effort (which they didn't have to do - and I give them kudos and credit for that). I do have respect for Prusa Research, its history, and their capabilities. If you are unable to see that, I am sorry that you're unable to comprehend what I made plain in my previous post.

I did correct your incorrect feelings-based assumption about my feelings. If you have misconstrued that as anger, you are wrong, and it is your right to be wrong, whether you *feel* that you are wrong or not. I've never seen you advertise on TV as a mind-reader/psychic, so there's that.
🙂

If you don't like my opinion, which I will restate below, then that is your issue.
I trust what Prusa is trying to do is with good intent (my assumption), and skill. Period. I shouldn't have to explain this to you. It is my opinion. It is my *feeling,* and is not subject to your review or approval.

I am not a fanboy anymore, but I'm also not someone that irrationally hates the company that made 3D printing what it is today, who is legitimately trying to help me understand what is going on with this printer...  That's also not subject to your approval, nor will I seek it.

This post was modified 5 years temu 2 times by Casey
Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:31 pm
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: Casey/NZ2O

I hakve doubts, but I'll follow their directions and give them every chance - even though I wasn't afforded the same.

Out of curiosity, what chances did they not afford you?

Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:36 pm
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

See my previous response to this question, Mike. Thanks.

Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:37 pm
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: Casey/NZ2O

See my previous response to this question, Mike. Thanks.

I could not find it, what is the timestamp from when you posted it?

Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:40 pm
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

You can find it. I have faith in you, since you went back twice to ask the same question. 🙂

Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:42 pm
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: Casey/NZ2O

You can find it. I have faith in you, since you went back twice to ask the same question. 🙂

I didn't think you'd be able to find it either.  🙂

This post was modified 5 years temu by CybrSage
Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:42 pm
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

🙄 Ok Mike.

This post was modified 5 years temu by Casey
Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:45 pm
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: Casey/NZ2O

🙄 Ok Mike.

🙄 Ok Casey.

Opublikowany : 26/06/2019 7:52 pm
Casey polubić
Dave
 Dave
(@dave-11)
Eminent Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: gnat
 
Secondly it is no surprise at this point that what works for one person does not work for another. So unless you can set it up exactly like they did, then expecting the same results out of the box is just silly. You will still have to find the magic configuration for your environment that feeds the filament to the MMU just the way that it wants it to give you successful prints.

No kidding... this is about the most unrealistic expectation of all. Dozens of parts -- there's no way that getting one or a few things EXACTLY the same as someone else has a guarantee of achieving the same results.

Opublikowany : 30/06/2019 3:46 pm
CybrSage polubić
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

Got it back. Guess what. Extruder was still melted, PINDA not giving consistent readings, and the brass piece that the festo screws into is still loose from the print.... but hey, their test jig got a good MMU2 print! lol... and they sent their bowden tubes from their test jig - which are clear, but too short for me to use (buffer would dangle in the air from back of the printer, and the heated bad would h it it during print if I left it that way on my desk).... instead of the ones that came with the MMU2 (the ones I sent to them).

They DID replace the MMU2 circuit board, saying the old mmu2 board wasn't as reliable - on the work order,  and they reworked the mechanism. Apparently all the load fails loosened things in there.

It's ok though. They're sending replacements.... but at this point... I have to either laugh, or cry. MK3S mode works though...ish. Keep having to adjust the first layer between prints, due to what apparently is the probe.... (Old style is apparently what I got with my MK3 printer originally? I've never had a mk2, so....I don't know the difference.)

This post was modified 5 years temu by Casey
Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 2:12 pm
ntdesign
(@ntdesign)
Reputable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

Mine's working now, got 3 overnight prints off with 0 user intervention.
However. There was no chance in hell to get it working as delivered. Had to replace a few printed parts, and all PTFE. The buffer is just a joke for everyone that has to run the printer in a normal room. The only good thing about the backside filament inlet is that it can be replaced quickly. After 2-3 months of frustration the final issue was the PTFE in the hotend, which led to consistent load failures after 5-6 tool changes. I just tried again the originally delivered one as well as the spare that came with it (=totally unused). Guess what, instant failure.

So for me personally, the design works and I don't see why it shouldn't  be reliable. But poor QC or quality/supplier differences between "PR lab testing" and "customer delivered" parts messed it up. I'm not quick to give up, but after my nerve-wrecking experiences with MMU1,  I was at times ready to throw the printer out the window. I still don't believe what they actually delivered to customers could have provided these low failure percentages.

And, might I add: I have access to other printers and professional tools at work, and can do private orders at pro suppliers. The printer is a hobby toy, so the money is more or less written off. I can totally see why people would get aggressive under other circumstances.

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 3:08 pm
Laird Popkin
(@laird-popkin)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

While the MMU2 was unusable, to the point where I bypassed it most of the time, the MMU2S with the newer firmware has been fantastically reliable for single-color prints. It's very convenient to have many filaments loaded, so I can pick the color/material for each print when it starts. Multi-color printing is now fairly reliable, but it's still so slow that I only use it when I really need to, which isn't often.

Like Antimix, I don't use the 'loader' - I just have the spools sitting in the MMU spool bases (but not through the feed widget they provided) perhaps a yard behind the printer, with the filament loose between the filament and the end of the (normal length) PTFE tubes, and so far they've been fine. The filament twists around across each other, but they don't tangle because both ends are fixed, so whichever filament I'm using is straight and prints freely, despite the 4 other filaments wiggling around a bit. So perhaps I've just been lucky, but I don't know why Prusa is pursuing all the complexity of the loader, feed widgets, etc.

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 5:44 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: nils.t

...The printer is a hobby toy, so the money is more or less written off. I can totally see why people would get aggressive under other circumstances.

That's correct. As soon as users are starting to raise their expectations, this is where it gets ugly in the forum.

I still see PR and Prusa printers as a great platform to get a really good printer on a budget. The community is very helpful, PR is doing the best to keep up with demands/complains/requests and be successful as a company on the other hand. The strength in this construct is working together (company and community) to make a better product for everybody.

If somebody don't like this type of business, then it would be better to pick a different approach/company. Then there is no reason to be upset or angry.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 6:00 pm
CybrSage polubić
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: nikolai.r
Posted by: nils.t

...The printer is a hobby toy, so the money is more or less written off. I can totally see why people would get aggressive under other circumstances.

That's correct. As soon as users are starting to raise their expectations, this is where it gets ugly in the forum.

I still see PR and Prusa printers as a great platform to get a really good printer on a budget. The community is very helpful, PR is doing the best to keep up with demands/complains/requests and be successful as a company on the other hand. The strength in this construct is working together (company and community) to make a better product for everybody.

If somebody don't like this type of business, then it would be better to pick a different approach/company. Then there is no reason to be upset or angry.

For people who want a true plug and play experience, with outstanding support if needed, I tell them to go and buy a Makerbot, such as this one for only $6499.

https://www.makerbot.com/3d-printers/method/

 

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 6:30 pm
CybrSage
(@cybrsage)
Honorable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: nikolai.r
Posted by: nils.t

...The printer is a hobby toy, so the money is more or less written off. I can totally see why people would get aggressive under other circumstances.

That's correct. As soon as users are starting to raise their expectations, this is where it gets ugly in the forum.

I still see PR and Prusa printers as a great platform to get a really good printer on a budget. The community is very helpful, PR is doing the best to keep up with demands/complains/requests and be successful as a company on the other hand. The strength in this construct is working together (company and community) to make a better product for everybody.

If somebody don't like this type of business, then it would be better to pick a different approach/company. Then there is no reason to be upset or angry.

For people who want a true plug and play experience, with outstanding support if needed, I tell them to go and buy a Makerbot, such as this one for only $6499.

https://www.makerbot.com/3d-printers/method/

 

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 6:31 pm
Nailig
(@nailig)
Active Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S
Posted by: dick.v

Well it seems to me we (almost) all agree of one of the major issues: FRICTION!

[.....]

1) Check your filament flow for the lowest friction of the entire filament chain, by hand!!

Forget all the nice enclosures, buffers etc. for the moment,  just pay attention to the correct smooth filament flow!

If you need enclosures eg. for moisture influence on your filament, just print more or store your filament after printing with a bag of silica gel. 

2) Check the correct working of the filament sensors.

3) I use only factory settings and only adjust the nozzle temperature depending on the specific filament. Don't start tweaking all kind of parameters unless you know exactly what you are doing.

I agree, i also found that there was a lot of friction, mainly because the tubes were clamped with screws. I replaced all  of them with festo holders which helped to reduce friction.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3545935

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3097104

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3652406

 

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 6:48 pm
CybrSage polubić
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

Isn't it interesting, how the immediate reaction was to Prusa Research taking my printer for a month... to fix the warped extruder, MMU2s, PINDA, etc....yet of course only one of three issues were fixed....

The immediate reaction to only one of three things being physically resolved, was that somehow the problem is my expectations....
Yet even Prusa's support staff knows and readily admitted that this should not have happened, on their watch. So if you have a problem with my expectations, maybe you should challenge your pal Jakub and Ondrej at Prusa Research, because that was their expectations as well. I THOUGHT I was on the same page, considering I have full chat transcripts of relatively amicable conversations.

People in this forum are still trying to *assign* feelings to me, as if *they* are choosing the feelings I have toward Prusa Research, without actually bothering to ask how I feel about things. Why? Because this is an effort to smear me in the forum. That's the only reason for it. The community isn't helpful. In fact, counter-productive. They treat everyone who happens to not have things perfect, as buffoons, idiots, 'expectations wrong'.

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 7:43 pm
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

To be frank, I was just giving an update... that YEAH they fixed the MMU2S. So long as I'm HOLDING it with my hands, it does indeed work...and if the bowden tubes were good (which I should receive today) the MMU2S itself works marvelously.

Yet of course, Prusa Research did drop yet another ball with this. It was in the chat transcripts in black and white, and support KNOWS what they did.... so they shipped more parts... which should have been on there anyhow, considered it stayed there for a month.

As I said, if you guys have a problem with what not just my expectations were, but what Prusa Research's expectations were - considering that was pretty clear in the chat, that they even admitted that what occurred  yet again, should not have....Maybe you have a problem with brown-nosing.

By the same line of thinking you guys have....it sounds like you guys are also the kind of people that would blame someone for being attacked criminally, based on the wardrobe that they wear. Disgusting.

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 7:48 pm
Casey
(@casey-2)
Estimable Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

Care to know what was fixed? OF COURSE NOT. Because... it doesn't align with your little opportunities to be snide jerks. So  yeah.... I wasn't angry until I saw your little comments, which insinuate that somehow, I am responsible for an issue that came out of box, and an issue that evidently required a different circuit board hardware revision!

MMU2s issues ended up being the circuitry - the older version board, plus issues with the idler (which, was sent to me, in not-so-great condition to the beginning, was cracked out of the box).

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 7:55 pm
Nikolai
(@nikolai)
Noble Member
RE: I challenge Prusa to use MMU2S

Hi Casey,

If we need a discussion about feelings in a technical driven forum, then something is wrong. I prefer to stay technical.

Right now you are making your relationship to PR public. And at the same time complaining about the community. I would call it washing dirty clothes in public. That doesn't help anybody.

If you need help to fix your printer, the regular approach is to describe the issue as best as you can. Taking the hints people are giving to you (for free) and trying to make it work for your problem/issue. But after so many complains from your end, me personally don't want to help you because I have a feeling you don't want to fix your printer. Instead "the other" have to do that because you paid money for the printer.

Sorry if I got too personal here but this will be also my last post to this thread.

Often linked posts:
Going small with MMU2
Real Multi Material
My prints on Instagram

Opublikowany : 29/07/2019 7:56 pm
CybrSage polubić
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