RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Hola a todos, mi nombre es Luis soy de Argentina, aquí el dolar es altísimo vale 46 veces mas caro que en EEUU, tenia mi MMU1 y me pasé a la MMU2S, me costó muchas horas y muchas discusiones con mi esposa por el tiempo y el costo que significó poner en marcha la nueva actualización. todavia no es confiable y perdi muchas horas, pero de apoco me voy acercando a algo razonable . Algo que descubri en la torre de purga es que corregí un parámetro y MEJORÓ BASTANTE. REALMENTE ESTOY DESCONFORME CON LA MMU2S
Hello everyone, my name is Luis I am from Argentina, here the dollar is very high is 46 times more expensive than in the US, I had my MMU1 and I went to the MMU2S, it cost me many hours and many arguments with my wife for the time and the cost of launching the new update. It still is not reliable and I lost many hours, but I'm getting closer to something reasonable. Something I discovered in the purge tower is that I corrected a parameter and IMPROVED ENOUGH. REALLY I AM DISCONFORMED WITH THE MMU2S
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
I am not sure how the images were attached, but I cannot expand them. They are too small for me to make anything out.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
FORGIVENESS I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO RAISE A BIGGER IMAGE
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
FORGIVENESS I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO RAISE A BIGGER IMAGE
Not your fault, the new forum is garbage in that regard...
God this new forum really sucks... Even though I told it not to constrain the sizes it still did... Just right click on the images and "open in a new tab" and you'll see the full size images.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Thanks!
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Well, reading all of the reactions regarding the MMU2s, I have only one conclusion:
There are only two options:
1) You love open source, your budget is (very) limited and you are able to spend a lot of time setting up your gear;
The PR MK3s and the MMU2s is the way to go!
2) On the other side, if you want to have multi color FDM printing setup without to much effort:
Get yourself a I3 MK3s printer and buy a Pallette 2 multi material unit.
Keep in mind although that for the price of a Pallette 2 MMU unit you can buy also a second ready to print I3 MK3s printer.... )
Ok, let's see what's the real question:
1) You have time and are willing to do research of your own.
2) You have money to spend, wel pick your own Ferrari or Porsche.
There is nothing and there will be no such thing as a free ride!!
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Get yourself a I3 MK3s printer and buy a Pallette 2 multi material unit.
I don't think the palette is considered much of a multi material unit. I bet it has more problems then the mmu2, with that side of the coin. the filament all has to stick together in raw form. at least the mmu2 you only have to worry about how well the purge block sticks and how well any stringiness is dealt with.
it's been awhile but I should be doing a pla/petG/nylon/flex/soluble test again soon. so ill find out of the "S" is any better then pre "S" I swear you just have to know how each filament path acts, then plan on using that to your advantage.
I have a Prusa,therefore I research.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Well, reading all of the reactions regarding the MMU2s, I have only one conclusion:
There are only two options:
1) You love open source, your budget is (very) limited and you are able to spend a lot of time setting up your gear;
The PR MK3s and the MMU2s is the way to go!
2) On the other side, if you want to have multi color FDM printing setup without to much effort:
Get yourself a I3 MK3s printer and buy a Pallette 2 multi material unit.
Keep in mind although that for the price of a Pallette 2 MMU unit you can buy also a second ready to print I3 MK3s printer.... )
Ok, let's see what's the real question:
1) You have time and are willing to do research of your own.
2) You have money to spend, wel pick your own Ferrari or Porsche.
There is nothing and there will be no such thing as a free ride!!
I'm glad the Palette is working for you if you have one.
While I made the mistake of ordering my MMU based on the reputation of the printer and didn't research the unit itself, I did research the Palette at the time since I didn't know that company. The longer my MMU was delayed after my original estimated delivery I often went back and looked at the Palette with an eye towards canceling and just going with that instead.
Things that made me stick with the MMU and see it through:
- Only 4 filaments vs 5.
- Shorter (time and tool changes) warranty.
- Numerous reports of hard to reach and unhelpful support.
- Numerous reports of problems with filament separation issues.
- Numerous reports of unit and printer getting out of sync resulting in incorrect color changes.
- Continued vaporware for their new software which is supposed to simplify things.
The price wasn't really a significant consideration in my case, though I'll certainly give the MMU more leeway for it's setup than I would for something almost twice it's cost.
The MMU certainly has it's issues and has no soapbox to stand on, but the Palette appears to have a rather see through house itself.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Thanks for your replies toaf and gnat!
I first have to say I am very happy with my PR i3 MK3s, now working in single mode!
But multi color is an entire different story!!
First things first: I am a total independent AM consultant, running my own business.
I also work with high end printers, like 3D systems, Stratasys and HP....
They all own the patents pending to prevent PR to move on......, that's the price you are paying for open source and the reason
Josef is soo nervous.... and pushing his compony to the limit!
The future is this, HP is taking over the market, like it or not, personally I don't like it, but that's what it is!
In less than two years you will see a multi color printer, even with an ENSY board embedded for the price of a I3 MK3s + MMU2s.
Sorry for my opinion:(
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
The future is this, HP is taking over the market, like it or not, personally I don't like it, but that's what it is!
In less than two years you will see a multi color printer, even with an ENSY board embedded for the price of a I3 MK3s + MMU2s.
Honestly I hope you are right. More competition is good as it will drive new innovations and better performing hardware.
HP does some crappy things, but they have the infrastructure to produce easier to use units at scale.
I don't, however, think Prusa has anything to worry about for a long time. HP isn't likely to make a serious stab at the sub-$1k market of home users. They'll start off going for the small business type users which means things like Ultimaker.
When they do get to the home market what they'll go after is the user that doesn't want to know much about it and won't use it much. The one that simply wants no hassles. While Prusa does fit that niche to some degree (given how easy their printers are for new users), it's core market is still those with similar ideals to the early 3D hackers. HP is going to do their best to make their machines hard to work on yourself or upgrade and the majority of 3D users at this time will not take to that for their only/primary machine. What I see happening at that point is that the Prusa clones and other cheap printers will start falling away. Prusa will continue to have a good niche for quite some time to come.
Sometime well down the road the opensource printers will get pushed out to a very small niche, but that is still a long way off (at least a decade if not longer). If HP and others try some of the "approved" materials BS like they do with paper printers, then the "death" of opensource printers will be pushed even further out.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Capitalism drives down prices over time while increasing innovation. I say let's have more of it.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
I also work with high end printers, like 3D systems, Stratasys and HP....
They all own the patents pending to prevent PR to move on......,
The future is this, HP is taking over the market,
What patents exactly? The only one I can think of is the heated chamber patent from Stratasys which will run out in about a year. And that makes only sense for special filaments (fun fact: Stratasys usually prints only with ABS and their soluble stuff).
Talking about HP color prints do you mean their multi jet technology? That’s a SLS printer which is mixing colors into the resin before injecting it onto the powder. SLS printers in general will never have a big market share because post processing the parts is just ridiculous and even if Chinese companies will start selling them prices will be still very high.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Hi, a reply to the posts of gnat and flaviu:
The patents I am talking about are not specifically related to FDM printing as we all familiar with.
I am talking e.g. about the Multi-Jet Fusion technology which basically and simplified uses the same technology as
your home < €100 2D inkjet printer. I visited the HP research centre in Barcelona twice for a customer.
Believe me they are thinking in the number of produced printers per minute rather than shipped units per month....
@ flaviu: No that is NOT a SLS printer the way you described it!
I worked with that printer and saw the results myself. Yes, I know still high end and not fair to compare it with the PR printers.
But I am looking at the potential of different technologies and how long it will take to reach the market for the PR printers.
@gnat:
First of all let me say that I am a big fan of Prûsa Research and I love what they did and provide us all with a wonderful piece of 3D equipment in terms of the I3MK3(s)
I am living in the Netherlands, the home base of Ultimaker. Let me first explain for what purpose I am using the I3 MK3:
- Education, to attract people and children to the beautiful world of the making industry and putting your own ideas into reality!
- Environment, produce local for you local needs with circulair suited materials.
- Prototyping, to make an idea visible to see if it's feasible.
My only intentions by posting on this forum related to the MMU2s are to provide Prûsa Research with some positive critical feedback:
For what reason did you released the MMU(2) unit?
A) Providing your customers with a potential nice multi-color FDM option, still under development suited for you own research and building up your own understanding about what's needed for multi-color FDM printing? Fine, buy one at once!
B) Provide your customers with a multi-color FDM option according to the high quality standards from Prûsa Research we are all used to, like the I3 MK2/MK3(s)? Well, wrong bet!!
Soo, its all about managing expectations!
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Maybe you saw something secret in their facility. All I can say is HP multijet works as follows: Like a “normal” SLS printer HP is using Polyamid (Nylon) powder on which a so called “fusion agent” is sprayed on layer by layer. After that infrared light is used to harden the agent. You can also mix colors into the agent, that’s how you make the parts colorful.
I saw this technology on the formnext exhibition last year in Frankfurt on the hp booth. This technology is very competitive against standard SLA printer and SLS printer with a big build volume. But this technology makes only sense in an professional environment and HP is marketing it towards professional use.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Reply to flaviu,
Hi flaviu, there is a lot more to discuss about 3D printer technologies like FDM, SLS, MultiJet etc. etc.
I am very happy to discuss this further with you because 3D design and print technologies etc. is my profession.
However I think to proceed this discussion further on this place we are going off-topic.
This was started with "Extremely disappointed with MMU2s".
I think I made my point in my previous post in this topic.
I hope PR will be able to make their right choices based upon our feedback.
The only reason I was mentioning the HP developments is that I know they started with the high end market but there aim is to take over the entirely plastic market regarding Additive Manufacturing. Their technology can easily be adapted for the very low-end market like the current inkjet printers. The heads used for applying the agents are exactly the same technology as used in your cheap home 2D inkjet printer.
Yes patents pending! A whole lot!
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
I tend to give credit to the spool holders, but I suspect the new door on the extruder that allows better movement and more reliable IR function is really what helped the most.
Sorry if I missed it, but could you link to the new door on the extruder you used?
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
I tend to give credit to the spool holders, but I suspect the new door on the extruder that allows better movement and more reliable IR function is really what helped the most.
Sorry if I missed it, but could you link to the new door on the extruder you used?
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3572252
It's supposedly* the Prusa model with some more material added to the end of the arm. The purpose is to all you to shave off just the right amount so that the flag trips consistently and reliably. The theory is that the factory door is testing fine while it's static, but as the head starts vibrating during movements that is causing the door to move just enough to cause a false run out signal. My recommendation is to print without the MMU installed until you can run a full print successfully with the IR sensor enabled. In my case I couldn't get through a 20x20x20mm square until I swapped the door.
I say it is supposedly just the addition of the flag material because in my case it appears to be slightly smaller overall compared to my Prusa printed version. The result is that (once the flag was trimmed down) there is more movement in the door. I also went from not being able to manually feed filament past the gears with the tension bolt barely catching the nut to now being able to feed it all the way to the nozzle with the bolt properly installed.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
The MMU certainly has it's issues and has no soapbox to stand on, but the Palette appears to have a rather see through house itself.
For what it's worth, my first print on the Palette 2 Pro was a complete success, and my second is coming along nicely so far (knock on wood).
A few notes from my (admittedly limited) experience with it so far:
- The purge block, by default, uses a lot of filament. There are options to pare that down a bit, but I suspect that one of the reasons it has to be that large is due to it splicing material together.
- The fan on the Splice Core is fairly loud--louder than the MK3. It's not a huge deal to me since my printers share a room with a rack mount server (not to mention a TAZ 6) but it's worth noting.
- The splices feel very solid, smooth, and strong. I've fed Prusament PLA and Inland PLA through it so far (I intend to try PLA/PVA and PETG soon as well) and it doesn't feel like the splices are in any danger of breaking.
- Unlike the original Palette, the Palette 2 line auto-calibrates. I suspect this is largely due to them moving the scroll wheel inside of the package rather than attaching it to the printer. I don't have any experience with the original Palette, so this is all just speculation. The auto-calibration seems to work well, as in my current print it picked up that the Prusa is consuming filament 2% faster than it had expected and seemed to auto-adjust accordingly.
- It no longer looks like my printer is on life support, and I can easily bring it back to single-material with zero fiddling.
- The included filament stand is serviceable, though it's a bit wobbly with some spools. I'm probably still going to print the filament stands that @gnat linked.
- The warranty was extended for both the Palette 2 and Palette 2 Pro this year. The warrantied splice count still feels a bit on the low side (the 25K splice figure is a bit of an unknown to me at this point) but the Palette 2 now has a 1 year warranty while the Palette 2 Pro is covered for 2 years. Hopefully I don't have to use it.
- It's nice that I can use this with my TAZ 6, as Lulzbot's dual extruder toolhead apparently still has some major issues with heat creep, particularly with PLA. I have an ItWorks3D 1.75mm toolhead for it already (and am planning to build a Bondtech BMG/Mosquito toolhead at some point) so I'm not sure how Mosaic's 2.85mm to 1.75mm conversion kit works.
- This thing looks really cool with the cover off. The firmware on the device is also insanely fast, booting instantly and having a very responsive touchscreen. Kind of a small thing, but it's still a very nice touch.
I'll freely admit that I'm still in the honeymoon phase and haven't crossed over into "angry four letter words" mode yet. I'm sure as I use it more it'll find a way to piss me off. 🙂
Edit: If anyone does intend to connect a Palette 2 to a MK3S, be sure to print this! It's far less janky than the included piece (which attaches with velcro :/ ) that it ships with.
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Another part that can be updated is the selector.
This version has a few 'tweaks' to reduce failures: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3528314
RE: Extremely disappointed with MMU2S
Well I'm not having success with another 5 filament model I'm trying to print, but I can't blame the MMU here. The issue is that it is a helicopter style fan and the blades are long, thin, and mostly unsupported. My issue is that .6mm (.2mm layers) in and they start to warp at the upper edge and by the 1mm mark the extruder keeps crashing into them.
I have, however, had to help the MMU along as far as it would go as some tool changes failed. All were recoverable though and I am more convinced than ever that drag on the filament is the sworn enemy of the MMU. One of the 5 filaments (all PLA. A mix of Amazon and Inland) was involved in all the trouble and it always had a tail on it when I removed it. It appears that once I finally got the tension on the rewind spool dialed in for it, it stopped having issues and went through about 10 more tool changes before I finally gave up due to the crashes.