Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?  

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

As far as I can tell, the Volcano comes with a standard E3D 12V 30 heater cartridge.

You can just replace that with the 24V 40W cartridge from your existing hot end, so you really only need the block and nozzle.

Peter

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Is this all that would be needed then? The $6.10 price seems ridiculously low:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/3D-printer-E3D-Volcano-Nozzle-kit-12V-or-24V-Volcano-Hotend-Extrusion-Aluminum-block-Cartridge-Heater/32840392157.html?src=google&albslr=226293904&isdl=y&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&source=%7Bifdyn:dyn%7D%7Bifpla:pla%7D%7Bifdbm:DBM&albch=DID%7D&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=708-803-3821&isdl=y&albcp=653153647&albag=34728528644&slnk=&trgt=75384829977&plac=&crea=en32840392157&netw=g&device=c&mtctp=&aff_platform=google&gclid=Cj0KCQjw3InYBRCLARIsAG6bfMRhawIGRP4QxaYXdfsfD3ShZ_EMzdOEXDN4XfajaUhTS9BjEXk0OioaAsCNEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

but then again the parts look very simple.

If so, then I guess the only challenge remaining would be getting the PINDA set to the right height and possibly using new fan ducting directed to blow on the extruded filament? Is that all there is to it?

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Having purchased heat cartridges direct from China in the past, I would advise that be thrown away - it may well be OK, but you don't want to start a fire in your home anytime soon.

I think buying direct from E3D would be the better option, and it will arrive a lot quicker. Plus the nozzles will likely be more precise.

Peter

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

or is it the 12v? It seems that e3D may only sell the 24v version if I buy a duplicate V6 to go along with it. Is this right? It seems crazy. Or, does the 24v volcano upgrade (without the entire v6) exist, and I'm just not finding it?

What country are you in? You should check E3D's distributors in your country (yes, even if you live in the UK and could just buy direct) as they tend to have a lot more selection when it comes to mixing and matching stuff. I only know US distributors, but I have bought a couple official volcano hotends from filastruder.com. I like this package: https://www.filastruder.com/products/e3d-volcano?variant=1242711916

24V, and is very reasonable at $30. It doesn't force you to buy anything you might already have, like the V6 heat brake and heatsink.

Also, I have a lot of experience with the cheaper hotends on aliexpress etc. and... well, they do work. Just not as well, or reliably. The main thing is they seem to get clogged or jammed more. But that might just be personal bias, I don't really have any data behind that.

Just remember, you're not buying a $6 volcano hotend, you're buying a volcano with every possible corner cut to make it cheaper. The aluminum will be the cheapest alloy. The machining will be lower tolerance. It will use those crappy glass bead thermistors. So on and so fourth.

What I actually recommend is you buy some $6 volcano on aliexpress, AND buy a still quite reasonable official E3D set from one of their distributors, which again, can be had for $30, and see the difference for yourself. There isn't a correct decision here either - you might decide you like the $6 one because its still good enough but so much cheaper, or you might decide you enjoy the higher quality of the official E3D version, even if you can't be certain it is worth the extra cost.

Then in the future, you know where to source stuff according to your preference ;).

Is the the Prusa I3 MK3 power supply adequate to supply the extra current that the E3D Volcano will demand?

The volcano uses exactly as much current/power as the E3Dv6. The most recent official version from E3D comes with a 30W heater, the same one used in the E3Dv6. Both the volcano and v6 had 40W heater options, but you can only find 40W heater versions in off-brands or old versions of the E3D stuff. The only benefit from using a 40W heater is the hotend will heat up from room temperature ~30% faster. Hotends, at least the E3D ones, are not watt-limited and so the extra 10W is never needed nor used during printing. They reduced the wattage to 30W because in the event of some sort of control fault or electrical fault, a 30W heater will not be able to heat the hot end block above the melting point of aluminum. The 40W heater, however, could eventually begin to melt the aluminum. Considering how little the heating time of the hot end even matters compared to, say, the heat bed, I think the extra safety gained by using 30W is the right choice.

Anyway, keeping in mind that when you hit the volumetric maximum for a hotend, even at that rate of extrusion, you aren't coming close to utilizing all 30W of the heater. Wattage isn't the bottleneck at all.

The bottleneck is, sadly, sheer thermal conductivity/thermal interface. The v6 can't go much beyond 11-14ish mm3/s because there just isn't enough contact area between the filament and the hotend to get heat into the plastic fast enough to melt it at a higher speed. That's why the volcano can print so much faster despite using exactly the same amount of power: It has a ridiculously huge melt zone, which translates into a much larger area of hot metal that can come into contact with plastic. Basically, it can just melt more plastic faster because there is more surface area available to heat up the plastic.

Honestly, I don't know why the volcano style hotend isn't dominant. It's what I use as my main hotend, and as near as I can tell, there is no downside. I'm using a 0.4mm nozzle, and I can print down to 0.05mm layers and just as high quality as a v6. But, if I want to, I can squirt plastic out at 35 mm^3 (using ultra wide extrusion widths works even with a 0.4mm nozzle).

*shrug*. Well, there is one down side, you lose a few mm of build volume on the z-axis. Not that I've ever needed those few mm personally ;).

Oh, you will probably need to recompile the firmware and reduce #define Z_MAX_POS = <...> in the Configuration_prusa.h file by about 9mm (the volcano is 8.5mm longer than the v6).

No other modifications are needed, and after that firmware change, your MK3 will never even know the difference.

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Just an idea if you do not want to loose any build height with the volcano why not redesign the extruder (and/or x-carriage )printed parts so that the heat sink is raised on the carriage by the height difference. Then there would be no need to custom compile the firmware as you will have the full build height.

Regards,

Martin

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Thanks for your awesome post! You are exactly the guy I wanted to hear from.

No other modifications are needed....

So, just to be clear:
1. the existing blower shroud and PINDA holder are just fine as is? i.e. Just screw the PINDA lower?
2. Do you recommend using the same heating element and thermister that's already in the MK3 heater block, or do you recommend replacing them with the 24v parts supplied in the filastruder e3d volcano kit?
3. Is the 24v filastruder heating element the 30W version that you are recommending over the 40w version?

Thanks again for your post! It's great to hear from someone who has been there and done it already.

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

From a closer reading of the filastruder store listing, it appears they will be sending the 30W heating element. Fine with me, so I'm ordering it. 😀

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Honestly, I don't know why the volcano style hotend isn't dominant. It's what I use as my main hotend, and as near as I can tell, there is no downside. I'm using a 0.4mm nozzle, and I can print down to 0.05mm layers and just as high quality as a v6. But, if I want to, I can squirt plastic out at 35 mm^3 (using ultra wide extrusion widths works even with a 0.4mm nozzle).

*shrug*. Well, there is one down side, you lose a few mm of build volume on the z-axis. Not that I've ever needed those few mm personally ;).

Oh, you will probably need to recompile the firmware and reduce #define Z_MAX_POS = <...> in the Configuration_prusa.h file by about 9mm (the volcano is 8.5mm longer than the v6).

No other modifications are needed, and after that firmware change, your MK3 will never even know the difference.

Great writeup as always.

Question about the Volcano heaterblock though, there are two variants, old style and new PT100 style.

Old Style
https://youprintin3d.de/hotendszubehoer/e3d/volcano/428/volcano-block-and-fixings.html

New Style
https://youprintin3d.de/hotendszubehoer/e3d/zubehoerersatzteile/591/volcano-heater-block-for-pt100/neuer-thermistor.html

Which one should we get if:
A) we plan to use the original hotend thermistor the MK3 comes with (this is the glass bead encapsulated in a cartridge)
B) we plan to use the new Thermistor (PT100) and activate that new thermistor in the firmware
B2) should we use the PT100 Amplifier Board if we go with the PT100? ( https://e3d-online.com/pt100-amplifier-board )

Also didn't know about the 30W limitation not melting the alu heaterblock. Makes me wonder why a additional safety measure has been baked in, if Thermal runaway does most of the work. Granted, a additional hardware security measure is great, if the software fails to detect a fault somehow.

btw, if anyone wants to see the heater cartridge going through the heaterblock like it's a piece of cheese, look here:

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

btw, if anyone wants to see the heater cartridge going through the heaterblock like it's a piece of cheese, look here:

Wow- I had no idea a 40w heater cartridge could do this!!!

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

btw, if anyone wants to see the heater cartridge going through the heaterblock like it's a piece of cheese, look here:

Wow- I had no idea a 40w heater cartridge could do this!!!

This is also why you don't buy hotend clones or china printers. Thermal runaway disabled in the firmware (for hiding those pesky cable problems) coupled with cheap and inaccurate hotend components has the ability to destroy your life when it burns all your belongings to the ground. See Anet A8.

If you go for cheap, go for cheap stuff on non-electrical parts only.

Always treat your expensive 3D Printer like a soldering iron that you've put on the table, tip looking into the air.
Won't burn anything, but it's not totally safe. Also good soldering irons shut down after a few minutes of inactivity (sort of like our thermal runaway)

With Chinesium grade stuff, treat the 3D Printer like a soldering iron where you've rammed the tip into the table.

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

btw, if anyone wants to see the heater cartridge going through the heaterblock like it's a piece of cheese, look here:

Not all it appears to be; he is putting more than 100W into that heater block (19 Volt, 3.6 Ohm, 5.2Amp)

Peter

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

I ordered the volcano kit from filastruder.

Once installed, what slic3r settings should I consider changing so as best exploit it?

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

I should be receiving it this Friday. I hope some advice arrives here before it does... 😉

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

I should be receiving it this Friday. I hope some advice arrives here before it does... 😉

Have you contacted the part supplier? I don't see why Prusa would want to go "on the record" for something they have no control of.

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

I found and printed this blower shroud and PINDA holder on thingiverse, and hopefully it will serve the purpose: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2782716

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

I should be receiving it this Friday. I hope some advice arrives here before it does... 😉

Have you contacted the part supplier? I don't see why Prusa would want to go "on the record" for something they have no control of.

Has anyone else? I don't think that's how it works. Otherwise, why would Prusa have entire forums devoted to mods and improvements that they have no control over?

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

For anyone who cares, Z_MAX_POS is defined in 1_75mm_MK3-EINSy10a-E3Dv6full.h, located in the variants folder of the latest Prusa I3 MK3 v3.2.1 firmware download.

Therefore, this:

#define Y_MAX_POS 212.5
#define Y_MIN_POS -4 //orig -4
#define Z_MAX_POS 210
#define Z_MIN_POS 0.15


should become this:

#define Y_MAX_POS 212.5
#define Y_MIN_POS -4 //orig -4
#define Z_MAX_POS 202
#define Z_MIN_POS 0.15


Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Attached is the hex file for the modified v3.2.1 firmware. This should save you the bother of having to modify and recompile. 🙂 It's what I plan to use as soon as I install my volcano, which should arrive tomorrow.

Re: Is the 24v volcano heater block the correct match for the I3 MK3?

Which one should we get if:
A) we plan to use the original hotend thermistor the MK3 comes with (this is the glass bead encapsulated in a cartridge)
B) we plan to use the new Thermistor (PT100) and activate that new thermistor in the firmware
B2) should we use the PT100 Amplifier Board if we go with the PT100? ( https://e3d-online.com/pt100-amplifier-board )

A and B) The answers to both questions A and B is the new style. The PT100 is the same form factor as the cartridge thermistor used in the new style, which is also the same as the MK3 and MK2s's thermistor cartridge. The description on E3D's website for the PT100 is really outdated and might seem confusing, just ignore it.

B2) Yes, the amplifier board is pretty much mandatory. Without it, you can expect temperature resolution with 5-10 degree step sizes. No bueno.

FYI, there is not much benefit to using a PT100 unless you plan to print really exotic stuff (PEI, PEEK, those high temp plastics that need more than 300°C). While the PT100 is technically more accurate than the thermistors, it won't be of any benefit. The ADC on the Einsy/Rambo is much too crappy to derive any benefit from the PT100, as the bottle neck is the ADC, not the thermistor. In fact, the ADC is not even capable of the 0.1°C resolution you see on its own, so the firmware uses oversampling and measures the temperature 16 times then averages them to get a single reading =P. Which kind of works. I still wouldn't trust it to more than 1-2 degree accuracy personally.

Also didn't know about the 30W limitation not melting the alu heaterblock. Makes me wonder why a additional safety measure has been baked in

Well, it's only a 30W heater at its spec'd voltage. I can personally attest that these 30W cartridge heaters also work great as 100W cartridge heaters without immediately failing, or even failing at all (I needed about 100W worth of heating for an unrelated project. I drilled a hole in some aluminum stock, crammed one of the crappy 30W heaters you can get for <$2 each in the hole, and it's logged several hours at its new job as a 100W heater :D). And these things will, if used without any heatsink/cooling, happily reach temperatures hot enough to start glowing orange (the white ceramic inside as well as the metal casing). This also doesn't immediately kill them either. So yeah.

Anyway, since they're unmarked, its easy to see the potential for a 12V heater accidentally being used instead. 24V will double the current but still not enough to blow the fuse, but will quadruple the power to 120W.

Also, safety stuff is usually best done in layers and multiple failsafes. Basically its increasing how many things need to go wrong before the printer could damage itself, or worse, become a hazard itself.