Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality  

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

What material do you use?

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Oh I forgot the most important thing 😕
It's the Grey PLA from Prusa.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

And do you use 0,2 setings in you slicer program?
Or you just replace 0.4 for 0.2 and hope it will works 😀
I guess you need to change flow OR temperature... IMO this issue is insufficient preheat of string. You know smale hole, faster stream rule? Try to slow down print it is the fastest way to handle it.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

And do you use 0,2 setings in you slicer program?
Or you just replace 0.4 for 0.2 and hope it will works 😀
I guess you need to change flow OR temperature... IMO this issue is insufficient preheat of string. You know smale hole, faster stream rule? Try to slow down print it is the fastest way to handle it.

I used the 0.25mm preset and changed nozzle size and slowed down speed. Also printed with 25% of what you see in settings so this is rly slow speed. What can I do about the flow? I Googled that max volumetric flow but got no clue what to do 😬

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

try to print it, and "play" a little bit wit temperature. Try to step up to 10°C and if it wont work try to step down a 10°C...

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

did you change the 'extrusion width' settings under the 'print settings' 'advanced tab'?

regards Joan

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

So I just tried my new 0.2mm nozzle for the first time. Was total crap first 2 prints but now got some settings that at least created a part.

Printer is a Prusa Mk3. I made a picture of all the normal settings I used.A few thoughts on your settings:

I didn't have any luck with 0.20mm nozzles, but 0.25mm has worked well for me. It may come down to being simply "too small" without some extensive experimentation or tips.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

did you change the 'extrusion width' settings under the 'print settings' 'advanced tab'?

regards Joan

I had set this, just forgot to post it. But now, when I check the settings it has 0 (Zero) as value. So I'm guessing that's not good if it's not relative to what I put in nozzle size?

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Started another print now. With the tips from you I made following changes:

First layer temp: 215C
Other layers: 205C (down)

Max volumetric speed: 2 mm^3/s (down from 11.5)

Speed: 12 mm/s (down)

Perimiters: 7 (up from 3)
Solid layers top/bottom: 8 (up from 4)

Retraction length: 0.4 (down from 0.8)
First layer height: 0.16 (up from 0.1)

Will report back when it's done (or made a mess in the printer) in about 8 hours 😀

PS: Didn't know what to change with the "extrusion width"

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

prusa's 0.25 nozzle profile extrusion width is 0.25
so for 0.20 nozzle I would try extrusion width 0.20

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Started another print now. With the tips from you I made following changes:

First layer temp: 215C
Other layers: 205C (down)

Max volumetric speed: 2 mm^3/s (down from 11.5)

Speed: 12 mm/s (down)

Perimiters: 7 (up from 3)
Solid layers top/bottom: 8 (up from 4)

Retraction length: 0.4 (down from 0.8)
First layer height: 0.16 (up from 0.1)

Will report back when it's done (or made a mess in the printer) in about 8 hours 😀

PS: Didn't know what to change with the "extrusion width"

Which printer are you running this on? If it's the Mk3, you will be OK; Mk2 will be a more than a little problematic.

Max volumetric speed should remain at 11.5. This is the melt volume of the extruder and will not change.

Speeds need to be increased; at only 12 mm/s you will be getting very close to the Mk3 lower limit and below that of the Mk2

With a 0.2mm nozzle, you will be just about OK for a first layer of 0.15mm height. Your first layer line width should be 0.3mm. You need as much material extruded on first layer to make it stick. And lower Live Z a tad to get a good squish.

Increase bed temp to get better adhesion. With PLA you could try up to 70 degrees (although that is a bit too hot).

You need to figure out what the fastest speed you can run this at is, while still getting good adhesion. First layer maybe 20mm/s, but that's OK with the greater first layer extrusion.

For the remaining layers, you can go up to 0.15mm layer heights and 0.25 mm width.

I generally work on the principal of about 40 extruder micro steps per second being the minimum to get OK quality. You can work out your minimum speed from that (using height and width and the printers E steps/mm).

But be prepared for blockages and don't expect to get that many good prints. A 0.2mm nozzle will block many more times than a 0.25mm nozzle. And do not try to use it with "exotic" filaments (including glow).

Peter

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Started another print now. With the tips from you I made following changes:

First layer temp: 215C
Other layers: 205C (down)

Max volumetric speed: 2 mm^3/s (down from 11.5)

Speed: 12 mm/s (down)

Perimiters: 7 (up from 3)
Solid layers top/bottom: 8 (up from 4)

Retraction length: 0.4 (down from 0.8)
First layer height: 0.16 (up from 0.1)

Will report back when it's done (or made a mess in the printer) in about 8 hours 😀

PS: Didn't know what to change with the "extrusion width"

Which printer are you running this on? If it's the Mk3, you will be OK; Mk2 will be a more than a little problematic.

Max volumetric speed should remain at 11.5. This is the melt volume of the extruder and will not change.

Speeds need to be increased; at only 12 mm/s you will be getting very close to the Mk3 lower limit and below that of the Mk2

With a 0.2mm nozzle, you will be just about OK for a first layer of 0.15mm height. Your first layer line width should be 0.3mm. You need as much material extruded on first layer to make it stick. And lower Live Z a tad to get a good squish.

Increase bed temp to get better adhesion. With PLA you could try up to 70 degrees (although that is a bit too hot).

You need to figure out what the fastest speed you can run this at is, while still getting good adhesion. First layer maybe 20mm/s, but that's OK with the greater first layer extrusion.

For the remaining layers, you can go up to 0.15mm layer heights and 0.25 mm width.

I generally work on the principal of about 40 extruder micro steps per second being the minimum to get OK quality. You can work out your minimum speed from that (using height and width and the printers E steps/mm).

But be prepared for blockages and don't expect to get that many good prints. A 0.2mm nozzle will block many more times than a 0.25mm nozzle. And do not try to use it with "exotic" filaments (including glow).

Peter

Yes it's a MK3.
Thanks for the input I will check into this after the print thats running now.
But I think what I posted in the first post is underextrusion right? And only way I found around that so far is lower speed. Maybe I can go up a bit in speed but with these small moves on this tiny parts the movements get very jerky and I get some form of blob in the filament then it cant extrude and i cant unload it, i must open the extruder gear lid and clip the filament to make it exit the top hole.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

But I think what I posted in the first post is underextrusion right?

No idea, because you didn't add the photos to the post and like many others, I will not navigate to third-party sites to look at pictures, get a virus etc.

And only way I found around that so far is lower speed.

No, you don't combat under-extrusion by lowering speed. If anything you need a higher, more constant pressure (i.e. faster). What you have is most likely a partial blockage.

with these small moves on this tiny parts the movements get very jerky

Check out my comments regarding calculating minimum speeds. 280 E-steps / mm. That's just less than 0.2 linear mm/sec or about 0.4 mm^3/sec (quick calc!) If you are using 50 micron layer height and 0.2 mm width, then 0.4 / 0.05 x 0.2 = 40 mm/s is the minimum speed I would use (in fact I would most likely double that with those settings).

If you have small movements, then you get into the issue of acceleration and jerk which will slow the print.

You tend to get a (very) small pressure spike with each extruder step and if you print too slow you will get "pulsed" extrusions.

Personally, I think that 0.2 mm nozzle is too small.

Peter

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

No idea, because you didn't add the photos to the post and like many others, I will not navigate to third-party sites to look at pictures, get a virus etc.

Fixed the first post so you cab see.
I got this 0.2 nozzle cheap on Swedish eBay site so just trying to get it working. Been planing on getting that E3D kit with 0.25 and so on. Maybe that is easier with the pre-made 0. 25 slic3r profile.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Could I print PETG with 0.25? Since I mostly print PETG with my 0.4.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Could I print PETG with 0.25? Since I mostly print PETG with my 0.4.

You should, in theory. But it depends on many factors.

You need to exclude environmental dust from being drawn into the extruder (I use a sponge to wipe the filament on the extruder inlet), and ideally you need to use good quality filament. With the cheaper stuff, you really don't know what's in there and the particle size of the additives.

Also, you need to use new and original E3D nozzles. The Chinese stuff is OK, but quality can be extremely inconsistent and you just don't know what's inside second hand nozzles or whether they are genuine or rip-offs.

Peter

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

Well, I was almost certain it would come out awesome.
But turned into crap at the end.

The problem:

I pull it out the side when this happens, and cut it off. Too make it exit the top hole, becaus the blob on the end wont fit the hole.

Then just loaded new filament and no problem, extruding like normal:

What causes this blob?

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

[...] Max volumetric speed should remain at 11.5. This is the melt volume of the extruder and will not change.I'm surprised that Prusa has left the printer default at 0 in Slic3rPE. I had to change my settings to 11.5. This is, I think, exacerbated by Prusa using a value of 15 for PLA, though that's technically correct. I suspect a lot of people are using settings that are simply feeding too much material into the E3D V6 too quickly.

Speeds need to be increased; at only 12 mm/s you will be getting very close to the Mk3 lower limit and below that of the Mk2Is this a concern because of the extruder or specifically this nozzle size? The reason I ask is that the Prusa profiles for many materials use lower volumetric settings, from 1 for ColorFabb XT-CF20 to 8 for PETG. Looking at the resulting speeds in the Slic3r profile, I see a lot of speeds are limited well below 20mm/s.

Great info, thanks for providing all this detail. I've got a bunch of KISS questions, but I'll post those on the KISS forums.

Re: Help with 0.2mm nozzle print quality

[...] Also, you need to use new and original E3D nozzles. The Chinese stuff is OK, but quality can be extremely inconsistent and you just don't know what's inside second hand nozzles or whether they are genuine or rip-offs.Good point. My failed experience with the 0.20mm nozzle was from one of the generic kits, though the 0.30mm from the same kit has been fine for PLA testing.

The 0.25mm plated copper E3D nozzle has worked very well. If I'm understanding correctly, the plating helps with sticky materials like PETG as well, so that's an added bonus. Truth be told, I only went plated because they were out of plain brass.

I'm playing around with the cheap nozzles, but am ordering E3D nozzles in the sizes I plan to use seriously, particularly hardened steel for the larger sizes. I'm having good luck with the hardened nozzles for everyday use. I noticed E3D only starts at 0.25mm for the Fun Pack. They do produce 0.15mm and 0.20mm nozzles, but I think I'd be pushing my luck with those.