Z axis messing up?  

Re: Z axis messing up?

I took another photos on the current one im trying to print. just to see if you guys can see if the sensor is too close on the object or not. It will start fine like this up to a certain point. I'm only printing 1 clip this time.

Re: Z axis messing up?

The distance from the Pinda probe to the part seems reasonable in that last photo.

It would be helpful to see what was happening at the point where the print fails. Are the parts still attached to the bed when it fails?

If your prints are detaching from the bed, you probably need to adjust your live-Z. Check this thread for useful info to get your live-Z dialed in:
http://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/life-adjust-z-my-way-t2981.html
Use the file "calibration_surface_PLA_75x75@200um_v4.zip" found on the 4th page of the above thread to do your adjustments.

Looking again at your photos and from the skirt it looks like your first layer might be printing a little high. Difficult to tell from these photos, a picture of the calibration square above would be more useful. A good live-Z adjustment is key to getting your parts to stick to the bed.

If you're printing a whole bed full of parts, it's also possible your bed isn't level. If one of the parts is detaching it can get pushed around by the extruder and ruin the rest.

It is also possible that your printer is skipping in the X or Y axis if you have mechanical binding issues or belts that are too loose (or tight).

Also possible intermittent connections when the cables flex to a certain position.

A time-lapse video is great for diagnosing these failures so you can see exactly what happened. I've got my OctoPi hooked up but haven't got a camera for it yet - on my to-do list 😉 .

Re: Z axis messing up?

The distance from the Pinda probe to the part seems reasonable in that last photo.

It would be helpful to see what was happening at the point where the print fails. Are the parts still attached to the bed when it fails? No the parts are all over the place when i go and check it out. it's kinda hard for me just to stare at thing for hours. it will take 10hrs for this one to finish.

If your prints are detaching from the bed, you probably need to adjust your live-Z. Check this thread for useful info to get your live-Z dialed in:
prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first ... t2981.html
Use the file "calibration_surface_PLA_75x75@200um_v4.zip" found on the 4th page of the above thread to do your adjustments. I will try this one if the 1 piece clip im currently printing still fails

Looking again at your photos and from the skirt it looks like your first layer might be printing a little high. Difficult to tell from these photos, a picture of the calibration square above would be more useful. A good live-Z adjustment is key to getting your parts to stick to the bed.

If you're printing a whole bed full of parts, it's also possible your bed isn't level. If one of the parts is detaching it can get pushed around by the extruder and ruin the rest.

It is also possible that your printer is skipping in the X or Y axis if you have mechanical binding issues or belts that are too loose (or tight).

Also possible intermittent connections when the cables flex to a certain position. I double check all loose cables and tidy em up as good as they can be.

A time-lapse video is great for diagnosing these failures so you can see exactly what happened. I've got my OctoPi hooked up but haven't got a camera for it yet - on my to-do list 😉 .

im currently taking a timelapse video on my phone at 25% progress. I will try some of the things that you point out. im only printing 1 right now so im hoping it will able to finish the print then add 1 at a time from there and keep taking timelapse videos, just so i know it can actually go to the finish Height Z.. Thank you for your input.

Re: Z axis messing up?

For very tall parts, with very small surface area on the bed, it is best to add "brim" in your slicer to create an artificially large surface contact area so things don't come loose.

When the nozzle pushes down on the print (to get good intra-layer adhesion), it can push the print loose, especially if it is tall with small surface area.

Re: Z axis messing up?

Are you using z hop in the slicer profile. Swapping from column to column can cause the extruder to strike the side of a column. And this can sometimes cause the x or y axis motor to lose steps. Especially if the pronter is in silent mode. If the axis lose steps then the extruder tries to continue printing in the new position. Because there is no position feedbacl. If the new position is in mod air. Ypu get plastic spaghetti... which seems to be your problem... best wishes, joan

Re: Z axis messing up?

For very tall parts, with very small surface area on the bed, it is best to add "brim" in your slicer to create an artificially large surface contact area so things don't come loose.

When the nozzle pushes down on the print (to get good intra-layer adhesion), it can push the print loose, especially if it is tall with small surface area.

on the 6 pieces that i was trying to print i added a "Skirt and Brim" with these current settings
Skirt
Loops minimum 1
Distance from object 0 /mm
skirt height 3 / layers
Minimum extrusion lenght 4mm

Brim Width 6 mm

I am currently printing 1 piece right now since i started this thread and it's still looking pretty good at 80% done almost 8hrs have passed. once it finished if succesful or not i will post a picture here.

Are you using z hop in the slicer profile. Swapping from column to column can cause the extruder to strike the side of a column. And this can sometimes cause the x or y axis motor to lose steps. Especially if the pronter is in silent mode. If the axis lose steps then the extruder tries to continue printing in the new position. Because there is no position feedbacl. If the new position is in mod air. Ypu get plastic spaghetti... which seems to be your problem... best wishes, joan

I do not know what z-hop is but i will look into it and what it do. Thats what happening when its printing its going from column to column. The Printer is operating on "High Power" Mode i just checked the manual so its definately not Silent.

If you are to print these in multiple pieces. what kind of printer setting would you do? once i complete printing this one piece i know that my calibration is all okay and the printer is working as it should. I'm just missing something on the settings parts when printing a few pieces.

Re: Z axis messing up?

I would add more than 6mm of brim. Maybe 15 or so.

If the parts move or curl up at all, then when the nozzle comes back around, it will hit the now too high print. If it is only doing one, then it is still over the part and it will not be knocked.

Have you considered printing these on their side? It has a nice flat area and should print okay sideways.

Re: Z axis messing up?

I just want to update this thread on the progress. So i was able to print one piece w/o a problem with the current print settings i posted above. So i know 100% that the printer itself have no problem on XYZ axis and filament flow, speed etc.

My next try would add 15mm Skirt/Brim.. and try to print 2 and see if i can execute it without a problem, im just going to arrange them on how the Slic3r arranging them Automatically.

Re: Z axis messing up?

are you using high power mode, and Z hop?

regards Joan

Re: Z axis messing up?

here is my attempt at 15mm brim.. crossing my fingers hopefully by the time i wake up in the morning i won't see noodles

@aaron.s5 - i did try printing it flat when i first got it all setup and don't know much about the slic3r settings so it didn't turn out well for me but i havent tried it since then. and i remember that the guy did a 3d print for me he mentioned that they printed the clip standing.

Re: Z axis messing up?

are you using high power mode, and Z hop?

regards Joan

yes i am on high power mode i never really bothered with the silent mode since i started printing.. and for z hop i still dont know what that is or what it does. if you have a link here or a thread that explains it please send me the link and ill have a look.

thank you

Re: Z axis messing up?

are you using high power mode, and Z hop?

regards Joan

yes i am on high power mode i never really bothered with the silent mode since i started printing.. and for z hop i still dont know what that is or what it does. if you have a link here or a thread that explains it please send me the link and ill have a look.

thank you

http://manual.slic3r.org/expert-mode/fighting-ooze

Z hop is same as lift Z explained here. The live Z height does not look like it is set properly in the photo with the brims.

Re: Z axis messing up?

here is my attempt at 15mm brim.. crossing my fingers hopefully by the time i wake up in the morning i won't see noodles
...

from the strains at your brim I can tell you that your first layer setup (live z adjustment) is still far away from beeing correct !
if it would be correct, there would be one closed surface.

and I will go further: I guess you won't need using a brim if your first layer setup would be right.

I press my thumbs that your print won't fail this time, but you are dealing with the symptom, not with the reason.

again: have a close look at this thread and get your first layer setup right.
I know that in the meantime the thread is a big one, with many sites to read. but it's worth it (as you can see from a lot of statements that the knowledge inside the thread helped to fix issues like yours !).

Re: Z axis messing up?

Slic3r's default brim is done at a lower flow, and I have seen it not connect even with a good Live Z setting.

That said, the first layer is always key, so taking your time to adjust the Live Z is important.

Re: Z axis messing up?

as some of you noticed.. it did failed again.

Re: Z axis messing up?

here is my attempt at 15mm brim.. crossing my fingers hopefully by the time i wake up in the morning i won't see noodles
...

from the strains at your brim I can tell you that your first layer setup (live z adjustment) is still far away from beeing correct !
if it would be correct, there would be one closed surface.

and I will go further: I guess you won't need using a brim if your first layer setup would be right.

I press my thumbs that your print won't fail this time, but you are dealing with the symptom, not with the reason.

again: have a close look at this thread and get your first layer setup right.
I know that in the meantime the thread is a big one, with many sites to read. but it's worth it (as you can see from a lot of statements that the knowledge inside the thread helped to fix issues like yours !).

i will have a read at that thread you posted after coming back from work and clean the printer and give it another go.. this time i'll print your square examples.

Thank you all the inputs guys.

Re: Z axis messing up?

This thread might help as well.

http://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/-before-you-ask-troubleshooting-video-updated--t472.html#p39190

Re: Z axis messing up?

Okay so i just got back from work and i've been itching to get these live Z dialed in..
is the Live-Z option something that you have to do all the time when you are printing or you can set it on the Slic3r?

I did 3 settings on this print
first is -0.010mm then bump it up at -270mm which is i think its too much because of the print that is coming out is not as smooth..
the setting i did -200mm..

so i think judging from the result my LIVE-Z settings when i print multiple clips should be set at -200mm?

Re: Z axis messing up?

Is this something acceptable and will fix my noodles problem? I'm still going thru the links you guys shared but i'd figured give the Live Z the adjustment and print another set of clips.

it's set at -200mm and bump up the speed instead of 80% im running it at 100% and also high power mode. Once again thank you guys for your inputs.