RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok Voj: sometimes I don't understand certain things: I've never read from anywhere that an enclosure can be a problem for PLA printing: It's one year that I've an enclosure, and I've NEVER had problems: the problems have risen when I've used some Prusament PLA. Prusa (on their blog) suggest to make an enclosure, but in originally article (they may have update their same word) there are no reference to problem on PLA print. Ok nevermind: the article on enclosure is this: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/cheap-simple-3d-printer-enclosure/ and there are NO WORDS on problems for print of PLA in enclosure (comments included): everyone that has made an enclosure has never had a printing problem form PLA? It's may be not possible? or may be it's a bullshit?
Second thing: there's a section on e3d site, that has spare parts for Prusa MK3 printers ( https://e3d-online.com/prusa-mk3-hotend-spares ): it's enough to go on their site and see wich items they sells: E3D v6 used on Prusa, is producted from E3d if you don't know, and they sell to Prusa that they sell on Prusa shop, with their highter profit, of course (indeed, price of the spare parts om E3D are lower than the Prusa shop, they are really mads, eh?).
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
[snip] but the mistake caused by using Prusament PLA at high temperature has created some problem in the nozzle, and all the rest is history.
m
Too funny - you baked PLA in the nozzle, which boils off volatiles and leaves solids, and wonder why the nozzle is plugging.
You really need to learn how to do a proper cold pull; or simply replace the nozzle.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok Voj: sometimes I don't understand certain things: I've never read from anywhere that an enclosure can be a problem for PLA printing: [...] Prusa (on their blog) suggest to make an enclosure, but in originally article (they may have update their same word) there are no reference to problem on PLA print. Ok nevermind: the article on enclosure is this: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/cheap-simple-3d-printer-enclosure/ and there are NO WORDS on problems for print of PLA in enclosure (comments included): everyone that has made an enclosure has never had a printing problem form PLA? It's may be not possible? or may be it's a bullshit?
The page you linked to contains these words:
You might actually want to keep the enclosure open with, for example, PLA to ensure there’s enough cool air around the printer for the part cooling fan.
That line has been in the article for at least 6 months since I last quoted it. The E3D V6 hotend is air cooled. It is rated to work up to 40C ambient temps. There are a lot of things a user can to do unwittingly contribute to heat creep. It's not practical for Prusa to put warning stickers on everything to keep people from not understanding how the printer works. Examples we see regularly here are:
- Excessive enclosure temps, especially causing problems with PLA.
- Powering off the printer without giving it adequate time to cool, contributing to filament melting in the cold end (especially PLA).
- Putting fan guards and decorations over fans that restrict airflow.
- Cranking up retraction settings that contribute to heat, either with excessive lengths or too many in a confined area.
There is nothing wrong with making mistakes. I've made plenty. It's a normal part of the learning process, and 3D printing is a complicated subject. Just don't go trying to blame others when it happens. Learn and help others learn. Welcome to the cycle.
and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
[snip] but the mistake caused by using Prusament PLA at high temperature has created some problem in the nozzle, and all the rest is history.
m
Too funny - you baked PLA in the nozzle, which boils off volatiles and leaves solids, and wonder why the nozzle is plugging.
You really need to learn how to do a proper cold pull; or simply replace the nozzle.
Ok Tim, thank you, and I'm happy that you found this funny: as I wrote before, I've make a cold pull before the last prints, you've read all or only some pieces?
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok Voj: sometimes I don't understand certain things: I've never read from anywhere that an enclosure can be a problem for PLA printing: [...] Prusa (on their blog) suggest to make an enclosure, but in originally article (they may have update their same word) there are no reference to problem on PLA print. Ok nevermind: the article on enclosure is this: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/cheap-simple-3d-printer-enclosure/ and there are NO WORDS on problems for print of PLA in enclosure (comments included): everyone that has made an enclosure has never had a printing problem form PLA? It's may be not possible? or may be it's a bullshit?
The page you linked to contains these words:
You might actually want to keep the enclosure open with, for example, PLA to ensure there’s enough cool air around the printer for the part cooling fan.
That line has been in the article for at least 6 months since I last quoted it. The E3D V6 hotend is air cooled. It is rated to work up to 40C ambient temps. There are a lot of things a user can to do unwittingly contribute to heat creep. It's not practical for Prusa to put warning stickers on everything to keep people from not understanding how the printer works. Examples we see regularly here are:
- Excessive enclosure temps, especially causing problems with PLA.
- Powering off the printer without giving it adequate time to cool, contributing to filament melting in the cold end (especially PLA).
- Putting fan guards and decorations over fans that restrict airflow.
- Cranking up retraction settings that contribute to heat, either with excessive lengths or too many in a confined area.
There is nothing wrong with making mistakes. I've made plenty. It's a normal part of the learning process, and 3D printing is a complicated subject. Just don't go trying to blame others when it happens. Learn and help others learn. Welcome to the cycle.
Hi Bob, thank you, was too late and honestly I've missed that part: I apologize if I was too hard in response to Voj, really, was not my intentions to blame other people.
I agree with you when you say that it's impossible for Prusa put stickers on everything: I wrote to Prusa support for this new material, ask for specific tips, but I've never received a response.
**
I add some other observations, on the last settings before all had worked back: on every try, when I just check the extrusor, and on change of ptfe, I've noted that the heat break had a conic base, but all the ptfe tubes (for mk3) that I've buyed from Prusa shop had no conic base:
well: in the last ptfe change, I've make the last part of the ptfe a little bit conic, to make a better insolation of the material in the heat break.
When I've analyzed kit for mk3s, I've noted that the new ptfe has a conic end of the tube, and this for me was a little surprise:
ptfe up: the new ptfe, ptfe down: the old ptfe, buyed from Prusa shop (don't keep in mind the length: on mk3s the length of ptfe is reduced of 5mm).
Maybe also this little detail has helped to come back in a normal situation.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
So am I correct to understand that nothing was blocked, but the extruder was skipping due to heat-creap (hot extruder motor due to filament path misallignment and hot enclosure)? If so, you could check ,if you are interested, how I solved it while keeping the enCLOSE-ure closed.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3502557
I fixed the allignment, used another extuder motor (not sure how much that itself contributed) and used cool air from outside the enclosure to cool the extruder. Besides that, also ("also"... not only), a 0.6 nozzle could bring relief.
Happy printing!
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok Voj: sometimes I don't understand certain things: I've never read from anywhere that an enclosure can be a problem for PLA printing:
Try here, as an example.
It's one year that I've an enclosure, and I've NEVER had problems: the problems have risen when I've used some Prusament PLA. Prusa (on their blog) suggest to make an enclosure, but in originally article (they may have update their same word) there are no reference to problem on PLA print. Ok nevermind: the article on enclosure is this: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/cheap-simple-3d-printer-enclosure/ and there are NO WORDS on problems for print of PLA in enclosure (comments included): everyone that has made an enclosure has never had a printing problem form PLA? It's may be not possible? or may be it's a bullshit?
I will not repeat @bobstro's words - just underscore them. He's right.
PLA is sensitive to elevated ambient temperatures. When summer comes, suddenly PLA jamming reports start appearing on the forums. It can be jams because the cold zone is too warm, it can be jams because the motor gets too hot, heats up the gears and starts softening the PLA. The same applies for enclosures. An enclosure is required for PA12, needed for ABS, beneficial for PETG, but for PLA it may actually hurt if not kept cool.
Second thing: there's a section on e3d site, that has spare parts for Prusa MK3 printers ( https://e3d-online.com/prusa-mk3-hotend-spares ): it's enough to go on their site and see wich items they sells: E3D v6 used on Prusa, is producted from E3d if you don't know, and they sell to Prusa that they sell on Prusa shop, with their highter profit, of course (indeed, price of the spare parts om E3D are lower than the Prusa shop, they are really mads, eh?).
As long as you stick to the "Prusa Specific" items, you're indeed getting the same as those from the Prusa shop.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
I add some other observations, on the last settings before all had worked back: on every try, when I just check the extrusor, and on change of ptfe, I've noted that the heat break had a conic base, but all the ptfe tubes (for mk3) that I've buyed from Prusa shop had no conic base.
well: in the last ptfe change, I've make the last part of the ptfe a little bit conic, to make a better insolation of the material in the heat break.
When I've analyzed kit for mk3s, I've noted that the new ptfe has a conic end of the tube, and this for me was a little surprise:
Prusa has a guide including drawings on how the PTFE tube should look an how it can be prepared if you don't buy the pre-made one. Like if you want to use the Capricorn PTFE instead of the standard stuff. When I bought the pre-made tubes from Prusa, they did have the proper chamfer.
There are even printable jigs to make the cutting process easy.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
So am I correct to understand that nothing was blocked, but the extruder was skipping due to heat-creap (hot extruder motor due to filament path misallignment and hot enclosure)? If so, you could check ,if you are interested, how I solved it while keeping the enCLOSE-ure closed.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3502557
I fixed the allignment, used another extuder motor (not sure how much that itself contributed) and used cool air from outside the enclosure to cool the extruder. Besides that, also ("also"... not only), a 0.6 nozzle could bring relief.
Happy printing!
Thank you Opk, this is a very nice solution: after upgrade to mk3s I'll see with open doors (as recommended before) if all work without problem, otherwise I'll have to adopt a solution: your solution is nice.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok Voj: sometimes I don't understand certain things: I've never read from anywhere that an enclosure can be a problem for PLA printing:
Try here, as an example.
It's one year that I've an enclosure, and I've NEVER had problems: the problems have risen when I've used some Prusament PLA. Prusa (on their blog) suggest to make an enclosure, but in originally article (they may have update their same word) there are no reference to problem on PLA print. Ok nevermind: the article on enclosure is this: https://blog.prusaprinters.org/cheap-simple-3d-printer-enclosure/ and there are NO WORDS on problems for print of PLA in enclosure (comments included): everyone that has made an enclosure has never had a printing problem form PLA? It's may be not possible? or may be it's a bullshit?
I will not repeat @bobstro's words - just underscore them. He's right.
PLA is sensitive to elevated ambient temperatures. When summer comes, suddenly PLA jamming reports start appearing on the forums. It can be jams because the cold zone is too warm, it can be jams because the motor gets too hot, heats up the gears and starts softening the PLA. The same applies for enclosures. An enclosure is required for PA12, needed for ABS, beneficial for PETG, but for PLA it may actually hurt if not kept cool.
Second thing: there's a section on e3d site, that has spare parts for Prusa MK3 printers ( https://e3d-online.com/prusa-mk3-hotend-spares ): it's enough to go on their site and see wich items they sells: E3D v6 used on Prusa, is producted from E3d if you don't know, and they sell to Prusa that they sell on Prusa shop, with their highter profit, of course (indeed, price of the spare parts om E3D are lower than the Prusa shop, they are really mads, eh?).
As long as you stick to the "Prusa Specific" items, you're indeed getting the same as those from the Prusa shop.
Thank you Voj: from the date I purchased my mk3, there were many updates/upgrades, and onestly, I was really very lazy to apply the advices that was given in the last months/weeks.
All the details discussed here, are for a good 80% absolutely new notions or tips (for me), and hope that all this history can help someone else to solve future problems.
A good thing is that I did a full immersion on these issues, and it's a good experience.
Thank you again guys.
Mauro
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Mauro - so far I have not seen a photo of a cold pull. You might think you did a cold pull, but you have not done one. And you are refuting just about every piece of advice and suggestion everyone has made. Essentially, you seem to know more about your problem than everyone trying to help you.
Since you know best, I suggest you go fix your problem and stop asking for help you seem determined to ignore. You are just wasting peoples time at this point.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Mauro - so far I have not seen a photo of a cold pull. You might think you did a cold pull, but you have not done one. And you are refuting just about every piece of advice and suggestion everyone has made. Essentially, you seem to know more about your problem than everyone trying to help you.
Since you know best, I suggest you go fix your problem and stop asking for help you seem determined to ignore. You are just wasting peoples time at this point.
I've not posted photo of my cold pull, next time i made a photo only for you, ok? I've followed instruction described here: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/lnbcnhg76k-cold-pull .
I've stopped to ask other help (some time ago) , and if you read with attenction, my problem has SOLVED (just now I set status of this thread as solved, apologize) , it's clear for you and quite funny?
I hope never really get your help, and God save those who ask your help.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
I recommend cleaning filament. I like eSun, but have used rigid.ink as well. PLA works for cold pulls, but snaps easily if you pull too hard early, or stretches out if you're a bit early. The cleaning filaments tend to work over a wide range and are good at sticking to the crud that accumulates in the hotend and nozzle. Equally important, they melt out at PLA temps, so won't contribute to problems if a bit gets left behind.
and miscellaneous other tech projects
He is intelligent, but not experienced. His pattern indicates two dimensional thinking. -- Spock in Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
I recommend cleaning filament. I like eSun, but have used rigid.ink as well. PLA works for cold pulls, but snaps easily if you pull too hard early, or stretches out if you're a bit early. The cleaning filaments tend to work over a wide range and are good at sticking to the crud that accumulates in the hotend and nozzle. Equally important, they melt out at PLA temps, so won't contribute to problems if a bit gets left behind.
Thank you for the tips Bob: I've used some Prusament PLA, and all has worked like a sharm.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Hi All,
This is a very interesting topic!
Lately I'm facing similar issues and along the way with help of the Prusa Chat, it seams to be heat creep.
As @maurespo mentioned, have been printing in an enclosure (Ikea Lack, see prusa blog) without issues for over a year.
The silver PLA had no issues so far (ran out), green PLA also Prusa supply is giving difficulties.
As I have a spare hotend, I noticed differences;
1) suffering much more from heat creep
2) PFTE tube is very tight fit inside the heatsink
Will the tight fit contribute to the heatcreep ?
Is there any info on Heatsink temperature in respect to ambient and type of filament (PLA, PETG, ABS etc.)?
My temps for PLA at the moment:
Ambient 26°C (door open)
Heatsink 36°C (approx. lower fins outside diameter)
At the moment printing with door of the enclosure open to keep ambient temperature below 30°C.
Thanks for sharing,
Thijs
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Hey all, I found this thread searching for something else, and created an account just to add a potential problem. I had almost the same issue, but it was due to retraction length being too long. default in cura was like 7 mm, and i found after doing some cube calibration, my retraction length needs to be only like 3.5 mm. I wonder if he is retracting too far and allowing for clogs like I was experiencing.
This is the page I followed to calibrate my retraction.
https://www.matterhackers.com/articles/retraction-just-say-no-to-oozing
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
This thread is in the Mk3 / Mk3S section of the forum, which has a direct feed extruder
the default retraction for the mk3 with many filaments is 0.8mm.
if you use 3.2mm retraction you are likely to have problems with clogging. those lengths are more appropriate to Bowden feed printers
I typically use 0.4mm retraction with PLA and PETG.
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK