Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Hi All,
I'm in trouble to find right temperature for Prusament PLA (specifically, galaxy silver).
History: all work perfect, never found sort of problem: every spool that I've used (ie: PLA Silver by Prusa), has worked without problem.
Well: on spool I see that temperature may be 215 +/- 10°, here first problem: print at 215 it's impossibile, after some time of print, PLA remain blocked in the nozzle, and block the flux.
Here the effect on a test print of a cube (220°, bed 60°):
Here a print test, with the same configuration:
and this drive me crazy, because why sometime print at 220° it's ok and sometimes not?
After this, I've made a print of a batch of 3 items (220°, bed 60°): in image I've added some tips (sorry for low quality, image is in movement):
I've tuned live temperature until 230°, and all seemed to be going well, but again, print blocked: after 25 minute of work, print blocked again, PLA in nozzle blocked, and sound click on loading material (like audible here: )
Someone has a tip on how I can solve this problem?
Thank you,
Mauro
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Update: I've changed thermistor sensor installed on hot-end, and nothing in changed: print process start without problem (I've tryed to start from 215 and 225 degrees, 2 tests) but after a while,PLA is blocked in the hot-end, and no fused PLA come out from nozzle.
**
I've buyed 4 of this PLA spool, possible that it may be faulty? I've tryed on 2 spool, and the result is the same.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Few possible explanations:
- bad thermal contact between heatbreak and cooler (there should be good thermal paste)
- thermal contact between heater block and cooler (there should be no contact)
- improperly tightened nozzle (nozzle needs to be tightened at 285 degrees Celsius and must not be flush with heater block)
- prusa 'custom' heatbreak shape (custom heatbreak has a wider space inside causing jams with some filaments)
and the first and last being the more likely, with the last being reported a problem with Prusament in other threads.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
is it not also possible that his PTFE needs replacing/adjusting? I have a brand new Mk3s, and it came jammed, after cleaning it out, I printed ok for a while, then got inconsistent extrusion. I replaced the tubing (twice, the first time I think I didn't have it pushed all the waydown) and it seems ok now.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
is it not also possible that his PTFE needs replacing/adjusting? I have a brand new Mk3s, and it came jammed, after cleaning it out, I printed ok for a while, then got inconsistent extrusion. I replaced the tubing (twice, the first time I think I didn't have it pushed all the waydown) and it seems ok now.
Could be a possibility. Also debris in the nozzle.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Thank you guys for tips and observations.
Few possible explanations:
- bad thermal contact between heatbreak and cooler (there should be good thermal paste)
- thermal contact between heater block and cooler (there should be no contact)
- improperly tightened nozzle (nozzle needs to be tightened at 285 degrees Celsius and must not be flush with heater block)
- prusa 'custom' heatbreak shape (custom heatbreak has a wider space inside causing jams with some filaments)
and the first and last being the more likely, with the last being reported a problem with Prusament in other threads.
It's incredible, but I've never used a thermal paste on hot-end rebuild: next time I try to use some thermal paste on the heatbreak, and give you some update.
is it not also possible that his PTFE needs replacing/adjusting? I have a brand new Mk3s, and it came jammed, after cleaning it out, I printed ok for a while, then got inconsistent extrusion. I replaced the tubing (twice, the first time I think I didn't have it pushed all the waydown) and it seems ok now.
It's incredible, and I forgot to report in history details, but I've changed 4 ptfe tubes, one on every print blocked, to void common wrong cases.
Thank you again, soon I'll do some update.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok guys,
after some thermal paste on heatbreak and changed another ptfe in the hot-end, the result is the same, AGAIN:
Here you can see at point 1 where the problem has started, until the point 2, where I've stopped the print.
I really don't understand.
I've used thermal paste used for microprocessors, an high grade of thermal paste by Cooler Master.
Here the filament extracted from the hot-end after the blocked print:
It's clean, and there are no debris in the nozzle.
Any idea of what I can try? I've no word about this experience.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
That pull does NOT look like a good cold pull. Looks more like you just removed the filament from a hot hot-end. A cold pull will have a definite cone on the tip.
Your pull looks more like the second image which is from the heat break jam.
A link to a Prusa article on cold pulls...
https://help.prusa3d.com/article/lnbcnhg76k-cold-pull
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
That pull does NOT look like a good cold pull. Looks more like you just removed the filament from a hot hot-end. A cold pull will have a definite cone on the tip.
Ok, I've pulled out filament in steps like descripted in your link, but I've not waited the 85° as described.
That's not the point of why i can't print this (probably) faulty Prusament PLA.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Ok, I've pulled out filament in steps like descripted in your link, but I've not waited the 85° as described.
A successful cold pull, where you see a full imprint of the nozzle and heatbreak internal shapes is a confirmation that there is no debris inside the nozzle. One common source of unmeltable debris is PTFE shavings, particularly happening in the 'FESTO' connector when you pull out the PTFE tube from the heatbreak. The debris can be embedded in the plastic that remains in the nozzle and so if you just tear off the filament near the hot zone, it can still remain in.
That's not the point of why i can't print this (probably) faulty Prusament PLA.
That's fairly unlikely. There are harder to print filaments (ProtoPasta HTPLA, ColorFabb PLA/PHA), there are wet filaments that have absorbed too much moisture and that causes clogs due to vapor generation in the hot zone, but a fresh filament being faulty I haven't heard of yet.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
A successful cold pull, where you see a full imprint of the nozzle and heatbreak internal shapes is a confirmation that there is no debris inside the nozzle. One common source of unmeltable debris is PTFE shavings, particularly happening in the 'FESTO' connector when you pull out the PTFE tube from the heatbreak. The debris can be embedded in the plastic that remains in the nozzle and so if you just tear off the filament near the hot zone, it can still remain in
Thank you for this tip: I can assure you that in every new try, I verify the debris in the nozzle, and every time all is clear, no debris or other stuff remain after a clean before a new try.
We can exlude debris in nozzle as inusability of this Prusament PLA?
That's fairly unlikely. There are harder to print filaments (ProtoPasta HTPLA, ColorFabb PLA/PHA), there are wet filaments that have absorbed too much moisture and that causes clogs due to vapor generation in the hot zone, but a fresh filament being faulty I haven't heard of yet.
Is there a scientific way to give you (and at the others) elements to analyze my trouble?
I've made a try with old Silver PLA (Prusa), and big surprise: in trouble also with this material! (blocked at 50%)
What's wrong? heatbed 60°/nozzle 215°: until the try with the new PLA, it worked 😥
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Thank you for this tip: I can assure you that in every new try, I verify the debris in the nozzle, and every time all is clear, no debris or other stuff remain after a clean before a new try.
How do you verify?
We can exlude debris in nozzle as inusability of this Prusament PLA?
Not quite. Particularly given that you now seem to have the same problem with your previous filament.
Is there a scientific way to give you (and at the others) elements to analyze my trouble?
I've made a try with old Silver PLA (Prusa), and big surprise: in trouble also with this material! (blocked at 50%)
What's wrong? heatbed 60°/nozzle 215°: until the try with the new PLA, it worked 😥
Possible causes need to be eliminated one by one.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Thank you for this tip: I can assure you that in every new try, I verify the debris in the nozzle, and every time all is clear, no debris or other stuff remain after a clean before a new try.How do you verify?
On every try, I remove the nozzle from the hot-end, for a full inspection.
We can exlude debris in nozzle as inusability of this Prusament PLA?
Not quite. Particularly given that you now seem to have the same problem with your previous filament.
It's possible that it's a case of clogging?
Is there a scientific way to give you (and at the others) elements to analyze my trouble?
I've made a try with old Silver PLA (Prusa), and big surprise: in trouble also with this material! (blocked at 50%)
What's wrong? heatbed 60°/nozzle 215°: until the try with the new PLA, it worked 😥
Possible causes need to be eliminated one by one.
If it's a case of clogging, how I can limit exchange o of temperature from hot-end and heatbreak? I've used some thermal paste yesterday on the heatbreak.
But the Big question is: why only now the problem is here? which can be causes of this behavior?
Thank you again,
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Thank you for this tip: I can assure you that in every new try, I verify the debris in the nozzle, and every time all is clear, no debris or other stuff remain after a clean before a new try.How do you verify?
On every try, I remove the nozzle from the hot-end, for a full inspection.
Removing the nozzle does not allow verification of debris inside the nozzle unless you are boiling the nozzle out in order to see inside.
Plus, you are performing the replacement at temperature and properly adjusting z-level after each swap, wasting a lot of time and effort.
A cold pull works, and is the go to method for ensuring the nozzle is clean and free of debris.
If you think the nozzle is clean, clear, and not subject to clogging, try using a NEW nozzle to see how the next print goes.
ps: good luck Voj
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
It's a possibility. To verify that there is no debris causing a clog, one way is a cold pull. The other way would be removing all filament from the nozle and doing a visual inspection, but that's really hard. Just wiggling a needle through the nozzle isn't enough, there could be pieces of non-melting material embedded in the plastic.
It's also possible that your hot-end is assembled incorrectly after you removed the nozzle. When replacing the nozzle, make sure you folow the E3D nozzle replacement guide. The important moments are:
- The nozzle must not be tightened against the heater block. There must be a space between the heater block and the nozzle's hex nut.
- The nozzle must be tightened while hot (285 °C) to 3 Nm of torque.
- There must be enough space between the heater block and the heatsink. They must not be touching.
If any of these aren't met, then you probably should take a look at the whole E3D v6 assembly guide.
If it's a case of clogging, how I can limit exchange o of temperature from hot-end and heatbreak? I've used some thermal paste yesterday on the heatbreak.
There must be at least 2.1mm of space between the heater block and the heat sink - same as the length of the narrow throat of the heatbreak. The thin area is there to reduce the heat flux from the hot zone (heater block and nozzle) to the cold zone (heatsink).
But the Big question is: why only now the problem is here? which can be causes of this behavior?
That is indeed the question. Try to think what else you did in addition to changing the filament. The temperatures are not the problem.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Removing the nozzle does not allow verification of debris inside the nozzle unless you are boiling the nozzle out in order to see inside.
Indeed, unless the nozzle is cleaned completely so that no plastic is left in it.
Plus, you are performing the replacement at temperature and properly adjusting z-level after each swap, wasting a lot of time and effort.
A cold pull works, and is the go to method for ensuring the nozzle is clean and free of debris.
If you think the nozzle is clean, clear, and not subject to clogging, try using a NEW nozzle to see how the next print goes.
+1
ps: good luck Voj
It's going to be needed here.
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Removing the nozzle does not allow verification of debris inside the nozzle unless you are boiling the nozzle out in order to see inside.
Plus, you are performing the replacement at temperature and properly adjusting z-level after each swap, wasting a lot of time and effort.
A cold pull works, and is the go to method for ensuring the nozzle is clean and free of debris.
If you think the nozzle is clean, clear, and not subject to clogging, try using a NEW nozzle to see how the next print goes.
Thank you tim: all clear. Next time, before every try, I make acold pull OR use a new nozzle.
ps: good luck Voj
If anyone needs luck, maybe that could be me.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
It's a possibility. To verify that there is no debris causing a clog, one way is a cold pull. The other way would be removing all filament from the nozle and doing a visual inspection, but that's really hard. Just wiggling a needle through the nozzle isn't enough, there could be pieces of non-melting material embedded in the plastic.
It's also possible that your hot-end is assembled incorrectly after you removed the nozzle. When replacing the nozzle, make sure you folow the E3D nozzle replacement guide. The important moments are:
- The nozzle must not be tightened against the heater block. There must be a space between the heater block and the nozzle's hex nut.
- The nozzle must be tightened while hot (285 °C) to 3 Nm of torque.
- There must be enough space between the heater block and the heatsink. They must not be touching.
If any of these aren't met, then you probably should take a look at the whole E3D v6 assembly guide.
If it's a case of clogging, how I can limit exchange o of temperature from hot-end and heatbreak? I've used some thermal paste yesterday on the heatbreak.
There must be at least 2.1mm of space between the heater block and the heat sink - same as the length of the narrow throat of the heatbreak. The thin area is there to reduce the heat flux from the hot zone (heater block and nozzle) to the cold zone (heatsink).
But the Big question is: why only now the problem is here? which can be causes of this behavior?
That is indeed the question. Try to think what else you did in addition to changing the filament. The temperatures are not the problem.
Ok Voj, thank you.
The facts: after a first clogging (I think at this point that's this is the case), I've changed all the extrusor body with a new one.
For the assembly of the extruder body (all pieces was taken from e3d site) I've followed the official guide e3d (same link you've posted before)
The new extruder has worked for about 60 hours of prints, but when I've changed PLA with Prusament Galaxy Silver, problems has come, again.
Now: yesterday I've executed a cold pull, and the printer sample (previously failed) has finished without problem whit Galaxy Silver, at temperature of 205°.
Now I'm printing all the pieces in PETG for printer upgrade (mk3 -> mk3s), and the last pieces are on the way to be ended.
Hope that clogging will be only a very bad reminder.
Conclusions: probably Galaxy silver used at 215° for my Prusa is a problem (the printer is in a enclosure), and this problem has caused clogging. Most likely a nozzle not completely clean was the cause for clogging.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
Only a last consideration: why sometimes print was ok and sometimes print was not ok?
This non linear behavior was very strange: the first clogging was made for using some third parties material, not official prusa, and after that, I had decided to change all extrusor, to start from clean and clear point, but the mistake caused by using Prusament PLA at high temperature has created some problem in the nozzle, and all the rest is history.
m
RE: Prusament PLA: which temperature?
You didn't mention your printer is in an enclosure at the start. Enclosures can be a problem for printing PLA, because it starts softening as low as 50 °C (varies depending on PLA brand, there are indications that Prusament may be more affected) . As the ambient temperatures goes up, the cooling efficiency of the heatsink decreases, and once the heat creeps into the cold zone, you get a jammed extruder. Particularly on prints with lots of retracts.
PETG, ABS, Nylon, aren't affected by this, because their heat deflection temperatures are much higher.
If you're printing PLA, you may be able to avoid the jams by keeping the enclosure open and/or installing an enclosure cooling fan to keep the temperatures inside arounfd 25 °C. Or possibly enhancing the cooling of the heatsink.
On a side note, the components directly from E3D aren't always the same as when you buy the E3D v6 from Prusa. Prusa has a number of components modified, different cable lengths, different connectors, and in the case of the heatbreak, different internal profile. Probably not a cause here, since the original E3D heatbreak is reported to be less prone to heat creep jams than the Prusa variant.