Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI  

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Biofila PLAtec is being removed much easier if the bed was cleaned by anti-static anti-dust furniture cleaner. I spent few hours testing this method, printing on 190/55 (all layers). Now it's almost the same comfort as with regular PLA. The bed must be prepared before each print. Looks like furniture cleaner leaves some adhesion-lowering layer on the bed, helping PLAtec to get off later.

The same surface totally fails with regular PLA, it does not stick at all. The bed must be cleaned with IPA first.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

So my Filaprint is finally here.
And P.I.N.D.A works fine with it!

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Finally, I got it to work. I think the main factors are:
- temperature
- live Z that should be perfect...

Note: I tried dust cleaner but the only one I had was with honey wax --> doesn't stick at all. It slips too much, ahah.

Here is my story.

Initial experience: use the same parameter than Prusa PLA (was lazy to modify :-))
- 215/195 nozzle + 55 bed, 100 µm for best resistance as stated by manufacturer
- Clean using IPA
Result was very good but sticking to PEI like hell. Check thickness of first layer using caliper (skirt track): was 170 µm: a little bit to less.

Then, I tried to lower the temperature to 190 for all layers like stated by one user: was not sticking at all, although live Z was too low.

Then, I tried 195 for all layers, and added glue to prevent any potential damage to PEI (I can assure than it sticks too much). Was better, able to remove the part with patience and when you can insert a tool. But still, it was not perfect because I damage a little bit the part.

Finally, I decided to have live Z a little bit upper to get first layer = 190-200 µm. I kept glue for security and it was perfect. I kept also 195 for all layers.

One thing we probably have to do is to adjust the speed for best resistance, although it seems tough. But I found the available info on this material very poor. What about its actual mechanical resistance? About the composition of the plastic?

Today, I printed the new extruder of Prusa MK2S. A good test for flexibility because very a new way to adjust the PINDA probe by thightening it into a threaded hole.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

hi bastian, i've the same problem here with the platec stuff ❗

last weekend i finally managed to crack the pei sheet 😥 of my mk2, and meanwhile i've a hole in the middle of the sheet (covered now with tesa-tape), where the crack was 😮 .

💡 the only thing that helps is to add "mouse ears" to the printed object, which means you have to modify the *.stl before slicing it.
therefore i open the *.stl with designsparks-mechanical, convert the mesh into a solid, choose an appropriate edge of the surface that's going to be placed at the prindbed, add a 10 - 15mm circle (or square) and extrude the additional surface about 0.4mm.
➡ after the print, you can lift this "mouse ear" much easier and get with your spatula under the edge.... from where you can push the spatula between the object and the sheet. and it's quite easy to cut the mouse ear off from the print with a sharp knife.

"Mouse ears" is a very good idea, but please take care. I don't know if you encountered, but PLATec doesn't have a strong inter-layers adhesion. It tends to loose it quickly when you try to extract the part. In addition to ears, I would use glue stick, it works quite well, like for PETG.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

... but PLATec doesn't have a strong inter-layers adhesion. It tends to loose it quickly when you try to extract the part. ...
can't confirm this. when printed @215°C inter-layer adhesion is absolutely sufficient (much better than with abs+).

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

... but PLATec doesn't have a strong inter-layers adhesion. It tends to loose it quickly when you try to extract the part. ...
can't confirm this. when printed @215°C inter-layer adhesion is absolutely sufficient (much better than with abs+).

Did you print at 215 for the first and how much for others? Because I reduced the temperature to reduce sticking...

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

i print the first layer with 195° and every other with 215°.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I ditto this. I print PLAtec slightly hotter than Standard PLA to get proper layer bonding. I've been printing it 190°C first layer / 210°C with 100% fans..

I really like like this stuff 😉

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Try dripping a little Isoprop Alcohol along the edges of the finished print and wait a few seconds. I don't know why this works, maybe because of the scratches on my PEI, but it seems to crawl under the print and removing it is much easier then. Or maybe i am nuts. The remaining IPA can then be used to clean the bed, so nothing is wasted.

So is anybody using Filaprint on their MK2 now? I used to use it on my Ultimaker and basically had the problem of it sticking either way to hard or not sticking at all with Greentec.

Not yet tested, but TwoBears contact seems to confirm this. Here is their advice:

============================
Use sugar water for printing:
> Fill sugar into warm water until you find sugar on the bottom of the cub
> Add some alcohol (ethanol or isopropanol)
> Apply this solution for your heatbed - we use therefore a spray bottle
> Wait until the solution dries on the warm heatbed
> print the first layer with min. 195°C
> remove be printed object with water oder window cleaner - spray and wait a minute.
============================

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Ah, the sugar (or salt, same diff i guess) method. It has been discussed over in the Ultimaker Forum for adhesion on their heated glass beds a while back. The sugar water evaporates and leaves a thin rough layer of crystals on the bed. If you print over it, this increases adhesion. If you add water after the print, the crystals disolve again and the print pops off.

I tried it with PLA, never occured to me to try it with PlaTec. Thanks for mentioning this again. Cause honestly, i want to go back to naked glass, it was easier to handle than PEI or Filaprint or Buildtack or else.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Ah, the sugar (or salt, same diff i guess) method. It has been discussed over in the Ultimaker Forum for adhesion on their heated glass beds a while back. The sugar water evaporates and leaves a thin rough layer of crystals on the bed. If you print over it, this increases adhesion. If you add water after the print, the crystals disolve again and the print pops off.

I tried it with PLA, never occured to me to try it with PlaTec. Thanks for mentioning this again. Cause honestly, i want to go back to naked glass, it was easier to handle than PEI or Filaprint or Buildtack or else.

Same for me. I ordered a tempered glass to do so. By the following the procedure of one user, it's rather easy. Just have to pause the gcode in order to put the glass after 9-points calibration. I submitted this idea on MK3 post.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I have the opposite problem. When my printer was new, PLA was sticking to the PEI very well, but lately it doesn't. I usually need several attemps to get the first layer right. At first I thought my PLA was too old, but then this also happened with brand new filament.
It's almost as if the PEI has degraded over time, although the surface looked almost perfect, since I am not a heavy user.

Does anyone else have the same problem?

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I have the opposite problem. When my printer was new, PLA was sticking to the PEI very well, but lately it doesn't. I usually need several attemps to get the first layer right. At first I thought my PLA was too old, but then this also happened with brand new filament.
It's almost as if the PEI has degraded over time, although the surface looked almost perfect, since I am not a heavy user.

Does anyone else have the same problem?

use pure acetone (not nail polish remover) a few times to clean the sheet and the pla will stick again as hell... 😈
and of course: check the live z-adjustment value.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Like jeff says: pure acetone works a little too good some times. You can make your life a little easier if you use a little brim (to stick a knife or spatula underneath it).

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I experienced the same issues here and could find a consistent solution. Sometimes I see some heavy warping (printing PLA, different manufactures) even when printing round flat objects. And sometimes the print is so heavily bound to the print bed that I have to use brute force and up to 1 hour.

I can eliminate the warping be thorough cleaning with Iso-propanol and optionally add some gluestick. But soemtimes then, two or three prints later, the print sticks like hell without any new cleaning of the print bed. I would be really happy if we find a easy solution to remove the print always safely.

Just for the record: I did not see any form of degrading of the PEI for 4 month now. I heard you could "revive" it by roughening it slightly with fine sand paper or the backside of the yellow/green kitchen sponges. I don't know if this really helps.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I experienced the same issues here and could find a consistent solution. Sometimes I see some heavy warping (printing PLA, different manufactures) even when printing round flat objects. And sometimes the print is so heavily bound to the print bed that I have to use brute force and up to 1 hour.

I can eliminate the warping be thorough cleaning with Iso-propanol and optionally add some gluestick. But soemtimes then, two or three prints later, the print sticks like hell without any new cleaning of the print bed. I would be really happy if we find a easy solution to remove the print always safely.

Just for the record: I did not see any form of degrading of the PEI for 4 month now. I heard you could "revive" it by roughening it slightly with fine sand paper or the backside of the yellow/green kitchen sponges. I don't know if this really helps.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I experienced the same issues here and could find a consistent solution. Sometimes I see some heavy warping (printing PLA, different manufactures) even when printing round flat objects. And sometimes the print is so heavily bound to the print bed that I have to use brute force and up to 1 hour.

I can eliminate the warping be thorough cleaning with Iso-propanol and optionally add some gluestick. But soemtimes then, two or three prints later, the print sticks like hell without any new cleaning of the print bed. I would be really happy if we find a easy solution to remove the print always safely.

Just for the record: I did not see any form of degrading of the PEI for 4 month now. I heard you could "revive" it by roughening it slightly with fine sand paper or the backside of the yellow/green kitchen sponges. I don't know if this really helps.

I use super-fine steel wool (0000) for the purpose and cannot see how anything else could work better.

I hope I will not have any problems with too much adhesion for what I print most of the time, because I have designed stepped pads under the object so it's easy to get a spatula under a part of it and gradually work it from there.
The important part is to start thin, 0.2mm, then increase to 0.4mm.
union(){//pad for 13th x-beam
linear_extrude(height=0.4){
scale([0.9,1.5,0])
circle(7.5);}
linear_extrude(height=0.2){
scale([0.9,1.5,0])
circle(10);}}}

My PEI sheet is severely damaged and I do not even clean it between prints any longer.
PLA sticks very well to the visible PLA patch that has build up on the PEI sheet.
I have a complete new printbed ready for when I eventually need it, but for now I'll keep using the damaged one.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

I hope I will not have any problems with too much adhesion for what I print most of the time, because I have designed stepped pads under the object so it's easy to get a spatula under a part of it and gradually work it from there.
The important part is to start thin, 0.2mm, then increase to 0.4mm.
union(){//pad for 13th x-beam
linear_extrude(height=0.4){
scale([0.9,1.5,0])
circle(7.5);}
linear_extrude(height=0.2){
scale([0.9,1.5,0])
circle(10);}}}

My PEI sheet is severely damaged and I do not even clean it between prints any longer.
PLA sticks very well to the visible PLA patch that has build up on the PEI sheet.
I have a complete new printbed ready for when I eventually need it, but for now I'll keep using the damaged one.

Famous last words..... 😈

Now my new PEI sheet has a big hole in it, and the miserable bioFila is still stuck to it. I cannot even shift the brim!

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Hi,

I sprayed my PEI with a quick wax spray used for car. That worked perfectly for me when printing with platec. When finnished i cleaned pei with pure aceton.

Re: Almost imposible to remove PLA from PEI

Just a small update. My current routine before the first print of the day is:
- Cleaning the bed with a little bit of Iso-Propanol on a paper towel
- Let the bed dry
- (optionally) Put a 5 cm gluestick line on a paper towel and add a few drops of water to dissolve it. Apply this on the printbed. If you use more gluestick, the print will stick much better, but potentially way more as you want it to.
- Let the bed dry for some minute while heated up to about 50 °C

In future 3D design I will add a small pocket on the lower side of the object so it can be removed better. This works like magic.