"Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
After wanting a 3D printer for a couple years I finally pulled the trigger and ordered the MK3. While I (painfully) wait for shipments to start, I'm working on designing the first few items I want to print. One thing I am struggling to comprehend is the "resolution" of the printer.
I understand that the MK3 is capable of printing 0.05mm think layers, but what about details on the X and Y axis? For example, I am designing a 4cm x 4cm block that can be connected to another block with a small butterfly joint. See the two photos below for the general overview then a closeup of the actual block that holds the female end of the butterfly joint then the actual butterfly.
My questions are as follows: 1) Is the MK3 capable of producing such small details? 2) Can it do this with the included 0.4mm nozzle? 3) If no, would a smaller nozzle produce such small parts or is such detail just not capable with the MK3?
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Welcome to the world of 3d printing, this will be my 2nd machine and I'm looking forward to it while I'm still new to the life of 3d printing I figure ill say that when items print there can be some variation on what a printer puts out. So for example do a 20x20x20 cube and you might have one axis come out 19.97 one come out 20.07 and one 19.87 which is actually what my machine spit out today while I was fine tuning it. And I think I did that cube at .2 layer height and I am sure some of that can be tuned in a way to get closer to spec with some work. I would most likely suggest giving a little clearance when printing those joints but does not need to be a lot but enough to account for your printer and the material. I hope that might help some at least for your question as to what the mk3 will be able to I am unsure my stuff was done with a standard .4 nozzle on a different brand of printer then a prusa so I can't say what the machines will be able to pull off.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Welcome to the journey of 3D printing!
There are a couple of things to consider during the process.
Resolution/horizontal detail:
Your question of resolution is maybe best answered with the default extrusion width of the 0,4mm nozzle, which is 0,45mm in Slic3r. Anything smaller than that will not be resolved.
Layer height/vertical detail:
0,05...about 0,3mm.
Accuracy & tolerances:
I think the rule of thumb is to leave a 0,2mm gap between parts that need to fit together.
Dimensional accuracy is quite good, but it will never be 100% accurate.
DESIGN for 3D printing
Now this is getting really interesting and I am only at the beginning of the learning curve myself.
The FDM process has it's limitations, like overhangs, bridges, edges, dimensions, shrinkage and warping.
Rule of thumb is to keep overhangs below 45 deg, even though realistically 60 deg overhang print nicely and even more is possible but with increasing issues, Bridging depends on many parameters, like material, temperature, cooling fan...
One tip at this stage:
Install Slic3r Prusa edition, import your designs and slice them, and go to the preview, checking layers in detail to see the actual extrusion path. That will give you a good idea what the printer will do with your design.
Good luck and have fun! It's a great was to spend the waiting time!!
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
most times you will print the outer perimeter, after the inner perimeters this helps the outer perimeter bond to existing filament on overhangs but slightly reduces dimensional accuracy.
for improved dimensional accuracy, try printing the outer perimeters first.
for better overhang performance , try using lower layer heights, Slic3r has a variable layer height option, this can be used to selectively use different layer heights
regards Joan
I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Quick answer: that model should print just fine with the default nozzle.
While you are waiting for the printer, put your model through a slicer, and then look at the resulting line placement layer by layer. This will give you an idea of what the result will look like.
Make your model parameterized if your cad software supports it. Print the part, iterating while tweaking slicing/speed/temps until you get good quality. Then fit it together. If it is a bit too tight or too loose, adjust the size of the butterfly slightly and try again.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Wow, such a warm reception to Prusa and 3D printing, thank you all! Some great information here.
In response to ben.t7, thanks for your example on that 20x20x20 cube with what it actually produced. Though not on a Prusa, it seems (based on other comments) the Prusa would produce similar results with equally tight tolerances.
From georg.s2, good to know about the 0.4mm nozzle extruding 0.45mm by default. Leads me to another question, though. Does a 0.4mm nozzle always extrude at 0.45mm or can/will that be different when printing different layer heights? I'm not sure what your reference about 0.05 and 0.3 is regarding layer height and vertical detail. I definitely like the idea of leave a little gap between parts that need to fit together. Just so that I can have a tight fit, I might redesign the piece to have a larger butterfly that can afford to shrink a little. I will also definitely keep the degree of overhand in mind. That was another question I knew I would have eventually. Finally, I am definitely going to install Slic3r and see what it produces. I had not even thought to try that. Kind of neat that the software will show you actual extrusion path. I figured that was magic!
Thank you joan.t for the suggestion about inner/outer perimeter first. Great notes to add to my growing how-to document. I'm also going to try the different layer heights to see what can be achieved in terms of overhangs.
Last but not least, thanks paul.m27 for the tl;dr answer. My first print will be the model exact as I have and I'll see what it does. Same as georg.s2 mentioned, I'm definitely going to download Slic3r to see what it produces. I'm only just beginning with Fusion 360 but it looks like it is capable of parametric design so I'll have to take a look at that as I move forward.
Thank you all for the awesome tips and helpful information. I'm only slightly bummed that we need to wait a few months for these machines. I want to print tonight!
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
From georg.s2, good to know about the 0.4mm nozzle extruding 0.45mm by default. Leads me to another question, though. Does a 0.4mm nozzle always extrude at 0.45mm or can/will that be different when printing different layer heights? I'm not sure what your reference about 0.05 and 0.3 is regarding layer height and vertical detail. I definitely like the idea of leave a little gap between parts that need to fit together. Just so that I can have a tight fit, I might redesign the piece to have a larger butterfly that can afford to shrink a little. I will also definitely keep the degree of overhand in mind. That was another question I knew I would have eventually. Finally, I am definitely going to install Slic3r and see what it produces. I had not even thought to try that. Kind of neat that the software will show you actual extrusion path. I figured that was magic!
So, vertical surface detail is basically layer height, or the thickness of the lines you see on a print. Your layer height can only be as large as the nozzle, but is usually smaller. In the case of the stock 0.4 mm nozzle, the highest you could go is 0.3 mm.
Your resolution is gonna be between 0.05 and 0.3 mm.
As far as extrusion width, think of it like a mechanical pencil. If you have 0.8 mm lead in the pencil, than you can only draw a 0.8 mm line with it (at the thinnest) however, since an extruder is not a pencil, the filament gets squashed a tiny bit and becomes a little bit thicker.
The term for this is called "Thin Wall Behavior".
Also, this is a really good reference for troubleshooting or simply understanding these things.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/
I'd keep this page in your printing references, it's incredibly useful.
Jonathan Kayne
Virginia Tech Class of 2021 - Electrical Engineering
Thingiverse Profile: https://www.thingiverse.com/jzkmath/about "I am always thinking about making. My future begins when I wake up and see the light." - Miles Davis
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
your resolution is gonna be between 0.05 and 0.3 mm.
That makes sense now. I knew the layer height would differ, but just wasn't sure why georg.s2 had mentioned two different numbers. Now that I see it is a range it makes must more sense. The width of a given "line" (with regard to squishing the filament) makes sense as well.
Thanks for that great troubleshooting resource. I'm hoping I don't need it too much but I'll be glad to have it if I do!
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
My questions are as follows: 1) Is the MK3 capable of producing such small details?
you can try how your parts are printable also without the printer (at least theoretically). you import your model to a slicer, use setting that you would use with your printer and slice the model. when finished, inspect the details of simulated print.
in your case the model would be printer just fine but you must consider the tolerance. with my previous printer i used offset of 0.2 but with mk2 this was too much. 0.1 is ok for we with pla. other materials can have different numbers, but this is really down to testing and experience. you should also use "perimeter first" like it was stated above
this is the slice example of the parts by your dimensions in slic3r. everything looks ok
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
...
Also, this is a really good reference for troubleshooting or simply understanding these things.
https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/
I'd keep this page in your printing references, it's incredibly useful.
Absolutely! The Print Quality Troubleshooting Guide is definitely one of the most important bookmarks for a hobbyprinter. The informations from this site has helped me so many times to optimize my prints.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Another thing you might want to do, is print a tolerance test. I've linked one below that has a Make Muse video where he explains the how's and whys.
It will help tell you how accurate the printer is while removing some of the guess work.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Thanks, tomaz.z2, for the for the thoughts on tolerances. I didn't even think that different materials would have different tolerances. Since I need these pieces to fit together tightly I'll definitely start with the lower end (0.1mm) and can move up from there if needed.
Similarly, thanks patrick.d16 for the tolerance print. Most likely going to be one of the first things I print as I start working with my new printer. (Right after I print some filament clips)
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
One thing I noticed and maybe missed, is in regards to outside perimeter first. For tolerances, it is better. However keep in mind that if you have any overhangs in your design, outside first will fail miserably since the outside layer has nothing to bond to. By default, inside first is the way slicers are set up. I personally do not use outside first on any of my designs. I add clearance to the models. 0,2mm works for smooth connections with minimal friction, while 0,1mm works well for tighter connections.
Have fun playing around with difference tolerances and don't expect that your first try will be perfect. And save the failures instead of tossing them. If you keep the different filament types separated, you can work on making an extruder to reclaim the plastics. That is my future goal... just who knows when. 🙂
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Question: How/Why do you talk about .1-.2 clearance and other parameters below the actual Nozzle diameter? Isn't the nozzle diameter designate you smallest size for accuracy?
I see nozzle sizes of .4 to .6mm how can they provide accuracy any better than their opening size?
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Question: How/Why do you talk about .1-.2 clearance and other parameters below the actual Nozzle diameter? Isn't the nozzle diameter designate you smallest size for accuracy?
I see nozzle sizes of .4 to .6mm how can they provide accuracy any better than their opening size?
Because layer height and extrusion diameter are different functions.
Example:
A 0.40mm nozzle can print 0.05mm layer height or 0.35mm layer height with the width of the line determined by several factors but lets call it ~0.40mm wide for clarity.
A 0.60mm nozzle can print 0.05mm layer height or 0.35mm (or greater) layer height with the width of ~0.60mm
Depending on which axis you utilize the tolerance on, will make a profound diference in required clearance.
Did that answer the question?
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
Question: How/Why do you talk about .1-.2 clearance and other parameters below the actual Nozzle diameter? Isn't the nozzle diameter designate you smallest size for accuracy?
I see nozzle sizes of .4 to .6mm how can they provide accuracy any better than their opening size?
Because layer height and extrusion diameter are different functions.
Example:
A 0.40mm nozzle can print 0.05mm layer height or 0.35mm layer height with the width of the line determined by several factors but lets call it ~0.40mm wide for clarity.
A 0.60mm nozzle can print 0.05mm layer height or 0.35mm (or greater) layer height with the width of ~0.60mm
Depending on which axis you utilize the tolerance on, will make a profound diference in required clearance.
Did that answer the question?
Yes, very well thank you. I was looking at accuracy and wondered what the different size nozzles did to the end project.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
As someone has pointed out already, you should consider giving your design some tolerance. i.e parts to be joint together should not match 100%.
Either upsize the slot or down size the plug.
Are you using Autodesk fusion 360? You can use the offset function easily to modify your design.
Tricky part is, very often it is a trial and error process to find out the tolerance of individual printer/filament/design....
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
The same as your approach, chad.r, I'm planning on adding tolerances between the pieces and just trying it out. The short answer is that the MK3 is very capable of tight, accurate tolerances with the out of the box nozzle. Rather than printing the perimeter first (since my final price has over hangs) adding tolerances should give me the final result I'm looking for. Regarding the rest of that comment, I'm am suddenly very interested in the idea of reclaiming materials...
Yes, kawah.c, I'm using fusion 360 so I will definitely take advantage of the offset functionality. Good point about different tolerances based on different variables. For instance, the same piece in ABS and PLA will likely require different tolerances for a given desired clearance.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
The same as your approach, chad.r, I'm planning on adding tolerances between the pieces and just trying it out. The short answer is that the MK3 is very capable of tight, accurate tolerances with the out of the box nozzle. Rather than printing the perimeter first (since my final price has over hangs) adding tolerances should give me the final result I'm looking for. Regarding the rest of that comment, I'm am suddenly very interested in the idea of reclaiming materials...
Yes, kawah.c, I'm using fusion 360 so I will definitely take advantage of the offset functionality. Good point about different tolerances based on different variables. For instance, the same piece in ABS and PLA will likely require different tolerances for a given desired clearance.
Does anyone use threaded features in fusion 360?
My older version of solidworks doesn't do actual physical threaded features (believe it or not), they are simply aesthetic visualization...newer versions do, but mine you have to physically cut them by constructing a helix and building in all the drafts and tolerances by guesswork....
Wondering if it might be possible to construct a model in solidworks, as I am very comfortable there, and perhaps move a model over to fusion360 simply to add Real mechanical threaded features "easily" I think I have seen they have this seemingly fundamental ability.
Re: "Resolution" of the MK3 nozzle
I’ve done threads in 360 a few times. Pretty straightforward for a number of standard thread standards/sizes.
You can also use a coil tool to create non-standard threads if you want big threads,
One thing I’ve noticed is that the threads tend to be pretty tight when printed. Haven’t looked for a way to tweak that yet.