PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues  

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

Honestly ... this kind of conversation you can have with any brand and any product... with any support member. The only thing it represents is your behavior.

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

Everyone is having the same problem? Let me look at my printer... Nope, no issues there.

If you explained your problem rationally you would have gotten more help.

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

I have been more irritated with this printer than most, but if I was that support rep I would have told you to buzz off. Being frustrated isn't an excuse for being rude and talking down to some support guy who is probably staffed just to fix simple issues. You should be ashamed of yourself for being a horrible person to him.

Better than Prusa Support, we have Prusa DEVS working with us on this issue here: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/1st-layer-problems-in-depth-look-at-software-pinda-t14815.html - look for the posts by Lukas, they are extensively detailed.

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

Of course they will try to minimize the problem and make thier image clean and say some generic anwsers, the support team on almost all cases are just normal people who are not responsible for firmware or hardware, sometimes they are aware of the real problems and some will not care either, most of the time they have scripts to follow etc. They have always to discard the user mistakes but i also fell that about support, because i have experienced the same, where i show some problems and he tell me to look arround and try find a solution without any other question, tip or advice, which is by the way what i have done all the time with the MK3 before contacting, and i can say i'm not new on 3d printing. So i fell like the they throw sand at my eyes, because all the problems i have or had was my fault and not otherway. My MK3 have no psu problems, no random crash, no severe bed skew, like many others the firmware lead me to loose tons of time to try get the first layer good. I have reprinted all mk3 parts to fix the align problems in a false hope that would fix the first layer but i have to agree there is a huge hole on firmware making MK3 acting like a crap 3d printer, it's like have the best car in the world but you can't pass the 90km/h limit (useless to have), like many "smart" features on this printer cause more problem than good so disable is the way to go.
You can't simply run and forget, you need to stay near printer for first two layer to get sure it will come out good, otherwise a disaster can happen.
It's hard to put the temp + pinda compensation right, there are many variables here but i really think they should come with a temporary fix to this util they fix, my best bet is ignore auto Z and put a menu to define 9 points for manual Z, that would print everytime good and not anymore pinda dependent, and as bonus they can use pinda as protection to prevent a bad manual value and hit the sheet. They are trying to have a very smart printer where plug & play is enought but they are failing, maybe due lack of real testing, one thing is test on one environment, other is test in every possible scenario. On some printers we have to ajust a tension screw under the bed to perfect ajust the height, i can't understand why they not allow us to do the same on software with a 9 point table and opt for user put Auto or Manual...
There are some customs firmwares out there trying to fix this, but again many variables, it may work for you or not, beside the amount of required steps to put it right where it should be auto.

So my alternative ideia for firmware is:

1) Pre heat pinda up to thier best value (Gcode or manual would work)
2) Run Mesh Bed Calibration and output the values for the terminal
3) User define that values on software or by gcode
4) User do some test prints to confirm the values are right and ajust
5) Forget about temp, pinda, abs or what ever, it will always work (Util you got a problem again or need to recalibrate)

** Before print start the PINDA should compare the read values with the user defined values to avoid noozle crash into sheet as a safe precaution, if out of safe parameters print should abort and warn user with a message on the LCD.

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

Got my printer working like a dream.
Had first layer issue's at first but once i dialed in my live-z and remember to pre heat then clean the bed with isoproply 99% and a good scrub no more first layer issues.

I normaly pre heat for about 5-10 min befor printing, turn on printer pre heat then i go slice my project come back load filament, clean bed with isopropyl alcohol 99% with paper towl and a good scrub, wipe nozzle clean and then i proceeded to print.

If you turn on printer and print right away your heat bed wont have time to stabilize the heat so your probe is reading different temps from spot to spot.

If you have your printer not on a solid/stable work surface you could run into issues since the printer does alot of sudden movements.

As for the live chat support I have had nothing but good experiences with them and find them very helpfull.

Asking about firmware progression from the live chat is just silly they are not the R&D department.
Also you might want to take firmware issues you might be haveing to https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware

If your printer is a kit are you 100% sure you have every thing assembled correctly?

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

My first impression of this conversation is that the person seeking "help" is a bit of an asshole.

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

Honestly ... this kind of conversation you can have with any brand and any product... with any support member. The only thing it represents is your behavior.

Everyone is having the same problem? Let me look at my printer... Nope, no issues there.

If you explained your problem rationally you would have gotten more help.

I have been more irritated with this printer than most, but if I was that support rep I would have told you to buzz off. Being frustrated isn't an excuse for being rude and talking down to some support guy who is probably staffed just to fix simple issues. You should be ashamed of yourself for being a horrible person to him.

Better than Prusa Support, we have Prusa DEVS working with us on this issue here: https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3-f30/1st-layer-problems-in-depth-look-at-software-pinda-t14815.html - look for the posts by Lukas, they are extensively detailed.

My first impression of this conversation is that the person seeking "help" is a bit of an asshole.

I just want to say I love all of you guys for blindly supporting Original Prusa.
My printer does NOT have any issues.

I would honestly love to know what is causing this issue.
If it's firmware, why are 90%+ of people not having it?
If it's hardware, why is it so "random"? It makes no sense that a "bad batch" would be so spread out. (That, and at least one of the guys has replaced his PINDA, which made no differnece)

Actually I stand corrected. My printer does have an issue.
I can NOT print 90A TPU.
At all. 🙁

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

I just want to say I love all of you guys for blindly supporting Original Prusa...

There is no blind support from my side. I like the open source community and I like the Prusa concept. Having issues and trying to solve them together, trying to create better product is what keeps me at Prusa printer.
OP is just one of the "I paid X dollars, Company Y owns me now ..." - customers. They just cost money. Neither helping the community or helping the company.

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

There is no blind support from my side. I like the open source community and I like the Prusa concept. Having issues and trying to solve them together, trying to create better product is what keeps me at Prusa printer.
OP is just one of the "I paid X dollars, Company Y owns me now ..." - customers. They just cost money. Neither helping the community or helping the company.

I was just trolling with that comment.

I see Prusa as more of a DIY kit, than a proper "3d printer". Yes, you can order them pre-assembled... But it's still a kit.

Just becuase you paid someone to build you a kit car... it's still a kit car. You just didn't make it.

The support behind the Prusa brand. (community specifically) is second to none. This is the main reason I bought mine. If I had owned a perfectly tuned mk2, and got my mk3... I would have been super disapointed when I first got it... but where I am now, I have no regrets. (besides the fact I can't print that blasted TPU... pure evil stuff... but there's CURRENTLY 2 community mods to fix it, and more on the way)

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

How do you say "the tone makes the music"?

The support is correct, not every one has this problem! I know a guy who is just super happy with his first layer - never has to adjust live Z.

Both my MK3s (that I had/have) had/have this problem.

I know now how to fix the issue for me - see the link a few comments above. So for me, the issue is gone.

I cannot wait for an official firmware that makes the problem manageable for everyone (who is interested in getting this sorted out).

Re: PRUSA Chat Support WORTHLESS concerning Firmware PINDA, Mesh Bed Leveling and first layer issues

I’ve always said, everyone should be required to work some sort of customer service job in their life. I worked in a shop through my teens, and tech support in my 20’s. I didn’t have the chops to wait tables; that job was too hard. God bless excellent wait staff.

Working customer service teaches you how to deal with asshole customers, and most importantly it teaches you not to BE an asshole customer. Two hugely needed life skills, (at least here in the USA.)

I very much doubt that the Prusa chat reps have detailed information on the Firmware release schedule, definitely not down to the level of which bugs are on the roadmap for which release. So it was a slightly unfair question from the start. It also seems as though the CSR might not have been the most fluent in English and missed that the inquiry was about a very specific issue. I blame the OP for not being clear on that point. I think that’s why it seems like the CSR is talking past the question.

And before anyone thinks I am complaining about Prusa’s English-language support, I am not. They are excellent; better than some of my recent experiences with Amazon, UPS, Dell, ...