Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
Before I printed with PETG for the first time I read section 11.3 on PETG on page 54 of the manual:
"Heatbed:
Make sure the surface is clean, as described in
6.3.2 Flexible steel sheet surface preparation chapter.
Do not use isopropyl alcohol to clean the bed, or the
adhesion may be too strong, if you do not have anything else on hand, use the
bundled glue as a separator after cleaning it. Windex or similar windows cleaner is a
great option for PET and you don’t need to use the glue after the cleaning. Pour a
little amount on an unscented paper towel and wipe the print surface."
Following the clear advice in the manual I used Windex on the sheet. The prints came out well. The adhesion was not too strong and the prints came off with no problem.
Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
In my opinion, the OP came here ONLY to try and create pressure on Prusa to send him a new bed even though it was his own fault due to NOT reading the manual. I hope Prusa sicks to there guns on this one. As a few others have said in the thread the PC mindset is sickening.
Just calling it the way I see it.
Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
I have been printing, on my mk2S MMU and my MK3:
- PLA
- PETG
- ColorFabb XT
- ColorFabb Ngen
- ColorFabb Ngen_Flex
Never had any adhesion issues.
I only clean my heated bed with high quality glass cleaner from a car detailing shop (I use Autofinesse Crystal Clear). I used cheap glass cleaner before but that left all kinds of crap on my heated bed.
Check my comparison video here:
Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
I think one misconception and frankly I feel miscommunication is that the mentioned necessity for the "cleaning" of the heated bed when printing the above mentioned filaments is not to clean the print bed, but instead to create a film on top of the sheet to prevent the printed filament to touch the sheet.
1. I tried Windex, Sidolin, Window cleaner now and it is indeed improving the releasability of the printed objects.
(Before the print spray some window cleaner on the heated bed and wipe it softly away with a paper towel)
Parts come off more easy with Ngen now.
BUT: The PEI flexible steel sheet is still throwing bubbles, sometimes like crazy on certain areas where the Ngen touched the heated bed.
The bubbles are so plentiful that I can touch the area with my finger and feel the unevenness like little hills on the sheet. It does that even though the parts come off easy now. It is a chemical reaction I guess.
To get the sheet more smooth again I do the following: After removing all the parts and cleaning the sheet, I preheat the bed to a setting with 100°C and let the heated bed just sit there for half an hour or more. The sheet is smoothing itself out after some time altough its not perfect.
Then I can do the next print.
2. Since I also have an MK2S and my friend even has 2 x MK2s and one MK3 we have some comparison how the printers behave with these materials.
It has actually not been any problem on the previous printers to print PET, Ngen, XT an other filaments. I almost never cleaned my MK2S and I never used Window cleaner or even the glue stick. Only now with my MK3 im am experiencing these problems.
I think the fact that Prusa cannot deliver any reorder sheets as of now and also the mentioning of quality issues in the blog etc. leads to the conclusion that at least my sheet here on my MK3 is slightly different from what it should be.
According to some of the comments here it seems that not everyone has the same behaviour / problems, so maybe there are still material fluctuations in this early generation of MK3 PEI sheets.
3. I advise people to spray at least Window cleaner on their heated beds before a print with Ngen (havent tested the XT with it).
And understand that it is not about cleaning, but about protecting the sheet.
Maybe this helps for someone.
Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
Colorfabb XT is a PET variant, if I’m not mistaken...
Not sure how I might determine this ...
ColorFabb identifies XT as Eastman Amphora AM1800. The PRIS, SDS, and PDS from Eastman for AM1800 are silent on what AM1800 is exactly, other than a "copolyester" and citing "proprietary" as the mixture. They have (understandably, for competitive reasons) broken the "is a" chain (eg. "dog is a canine is a carnivore is a mammal is a vertebrate is an animal" which allows statements like "don't try printing a mammal on your Prusa" to tell you what not to do with your dog).
So ... how would a person - even one versed in organic chemistry - know what class a particular proprietary filament belongs?
-- Clint Goss
Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
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I am waiting for the powdered metal sheet to become available from Prusa to use for these kind of materials.
There is no difference in handling stickered or powdered sheets. If you print PET without glue stick (or another release agent) you will destroy the powdered sheet too.
Re: PEI Steel sheet problems - not suitable for (some) non PLA materials - Colorfabb XT, Ngen
Not sure how I might determine this ...
ColorFabb identifies XT as Eastman Amphora AM1800. The PRIS, SDS, and PDS from Eastman for AM1800 are silent on what AM1800 is exactly, other than a "copolyester" and citing "proprietary" as the mixture. They have (understandably, for competitive reasons) broken the "is a" chain (eg. "dog is a canine is a carnivore is a mammal is a vertebrate is an animal" which allows statements like "don't try printing a mammal on your Prusa" to tell you what not to do with your dog).
So ... how would a person - even one versed in organic chemistry - know what class a particular proprietary filament belongs?
As it states, it's a Copolyester
Tom has a video on it that tries to sort out some of the confusion https://toms3d.org/2018/02/05/things-know-petg/