Might cancel order and get the MK2S  

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I wonder if some of the print issues are due to using the wrong slic3r settings?

The reason I say this is because I had trouble with a couple prints on my MK3 that I sliced myself. The sample codes (Nefertiti, Benchy, Triceratops, frog) printed great. Then I tried to print a couple propellers for my son's school project (last minute) and I installed the latest version of Slic3r PE on my PC. I wasn't paying attention and just went through the defaults. Sliced the STL and hit print. Needless to say I wasn't impressed with what came off my machine.

About a week later a new driver package came out with an updated Slic3r PE. While installing I noticed there were 3 options for the Slic3r PE that could be installed and the default was set to MK2/S/MMU Single Extruder. Sure enough that was what I had installed instead of the the MK3 version (settings). When I resliced the propeller and reprinted it the quality was significantly improved. Coincidence? Maybe, I don't know... but I think its something that everyone who are complaining about print quality should look at. Maybe uninstall their current version and install the newest version making sure they pick the correct Slic3r version/settings.

As stated throughout this and other threads, it's more than just a Slic3r error, it's faulty hardware/firmware, nonetheless thank you for the tip.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If it's firmware, then everyone would be having issues. Many are not having issues (including myself), so my take is the firmware is mostly good.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Are there any early adopters of the MK2S here? I'm curious to hear whether you experienced similar glitchiness with your MK2S at the start. It sounds like that was the case, but I'd be interested to hear someone tell their story of what the gradual improvement process was like. Were there a lot of hardware changes you had to make? Did you do a lot of tweaking on your own?

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Yet another similar thread ....
It's simple, You will find people complaining about MK3 and happy MK3 user.
Just keep in mind that MK2/MK2S/MK2.5 Prusa is also a KIT. Most of the issues described for MK3 do also apply to those old printer because of the same architecture. It's a tool which requires knowledge or at least a willing to learn.
So don't expect wonders either from MK3 or MK2S.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If it's firmware, then everyone would be having issues. Many are not having issues (including myself), so my take is the firmware is mostly good.

This is what I'm thinking.

There's no rhyme or reason to the problems. The only thing I can think is causing the issues is poor assembly, or a bad part that is being overlooked.

I don't understand why 99% of people don't have the PINDA probe bed leveling DISASTER. (oh it's a disaster, WHATEVER is causing it) But they can replace the PINDA probe and *NOT* fix it! If it was firmware it would effect a *LOT* more than 1% of people!!! (I say 1%, just becuase I only know of a few people that have the issue, and many of them are VERY vocal about trying to get it fixed so it seems like a more wide-spread problem.... and I don't blame them for being vocal, their problem truly breaks the printer!!! They can rule out firmware. The lions share of these printers do NOT have a problem that resembles theirs. That in my opinion leaves 3 things.
1. The printer was assembled wrong.
2. There is something else that failed, somewhere else, and it's being overlooked.
3. It's not a problem with the printer itself. (I still leave this as an option as before I stopped trying to help those guys, I suggested doing the First Layer calibration about 5 times, and not a single one of the guys having the issue would bite and show me 2 "first layer calibration" results in a row... (to rule out anything else)

The only problem that I think is a deal-breaker personally is the Z axis. It's so hard to work on, and the fact the extruder is completely defective, and needs every part re-printed to fix it... And it's the single hardest/most complex part on the entire printer.... This one upsets me... But as long as I print with "hard' plastics, It works perfectly... It was just advertised to print Flex. (and I only say a deal breaker, is, I bought the printer, for the ability *TO* print Flex. If I had known there was NO ability to print what I have, I would likely have not bought it, as I have a spool worth almost 150$ chilling in my dry box, with nothing to print it with. (There is a upgrade on the forums that would allow me to print it, except I'm not going to use that one, as it's such a major task to rebuild the extruder+Xaxis assembly... (Until a design I am interested in is finished)

As just mentioned Mk3, is a KIT... It's a PROJECT. Projects are something you are supposed to ENJOY working on, modifying, improving, etc.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Are there any early adopters of the MK2S here? I'm curious to hear whether you experienced similar glitchiness with your MK2S at the start. It sounds like that was the case, but I'd be interested to hear someone tell their story of what the gradual improvement process was like. Were there a lot of hardware changes you had to make? Did you do a lot of tweaking on your own?

The Mk2s did NOT have similar glitches, as it was a minimal upgrade from the MK2. The mk3 has some MAJOR changes in the driver board. The Original Mk2, from my understanding was rather rough. The Mk2s, had issues with almost EVERYTHING NEW. And the Mk3, is suffering similarly. (there's just a lot more changed)

I just started a 13 hour print, on my Mk3, and I didn't even watch the first layer. I'm using 5 month old super cheap filament that you can barely touch without breaking... (It's clear so I turned the filament sensor off) Am I worried about a failed print? Nah. It's good. No worries at all!

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If it's firmware, then everyone would be having issues. Many are not having issues (including myself), so my take is the firmware is mostly good.

Everyone IS having issues, just browse the forum, other forums, youtube- hundreds of people have issues.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If it's firmware, then everyone would be having issues. Many are not having issues (including myself), so my take is the firmware is mostly good.

Everyone IS having issues, just browse the forum, other forums, youtube- hundreds of people have issues.

If you're looking for issues, you will find issues. If you are looking for happy MK3 customer, you will find MK3 customer. Just browse the forum, other forums, youtube ....

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If it's firmware, then everyone would be having issues. Many are not having issues (including myself), so my take is the firmware is mostly good.
As just mentioned Mk3, is a KIT... It's a PROJECT. Projects are something you are supposed to ENJOY working on, modifying, improving, etc.

Just because it's a kit doesn't mean it automatically writes off anybody having issues; it just sounds fanboyish to say "kits are supposed to not work!".

I get it, your unit works, so please tell the hundreds of other people on this forum and others, why they are ALL having the same issues.

Respectively, Beau.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I get it, your unit works, so please tell the hundreds of other people on this forum and others, why they are ALL having the same issues.

Respectively, Beau.

I used to be a maintenance engineer with a company that had over 200 CNC lathes, and about 20 massive CNC drilling machines, and we had around 10 robotic arms peppered around the building. My job was to fix the machines no matter what broke. I was good at my job. Only twice did I fail at doing that.

90% of my problems, were "OE" Operator Error. I simply had to go and DO THEIR JOB FOR THEM. 5% of my problems were caused by "OE"... For example when they ram the lathe's table into the chuck, or ram the part clamed in the chuck with a tool holder... Oh the misery... Ever hear a 20mm solid tungsten rod snap? It's a wonderful sound similar to a gunshot. Another 3% was caused by maintenance neglect... the machines not getting the love that they actually needed. And only about 2% were legitimate machines having random failures on their own!

My point is, being a maintenance engineer for a few years, taught me many things about humanity. And how MOST people are *NOT* engineers.
After going to the MRRF2018, I learned the true meaning of a few things.
1. RepRap. It's mean's it's a toy. It's a concept, on how to do something stupid. Self Replicating printers. They are *NOT* practical. They are *NOT* optimal. All Prusa's are in the RepRap family of devices. There are other VERY expensive printers as well. My opinion on the Mk3 has COMPLETELY changed after going to that event.
2. The meaning of owning a Prusa has changed to me. I bought the Mk3, because it was open source. I however did not really know what to think of the company itself. Jo is a GREAT guy. And even more than that, is is a GENEROUS guy. But it's not just Jo. The other "bigs" at the RepRap festival were the same way. It's a COMMUNITY, it's not about the "one" it's about the "whole". You might think Prusa and the Green one that looks similar made in the USA, are in competition... but they ARE NOT. They are THE SAME. (Totally different owners, designers, and even ideas...) but the core foundation is the SAME, which I think is to create better 3D printers.

I can print a "Marshmallow Chick" at 0.05mm layers, with a 0.25mm nozzle, and it come out flawless. I can print a test cube with the same nozzle/layer, and keep within 0.03mm of 10mm, XYZ, all day long.

You say "You are lucky your unit is not having problems."
After working on 100+ machines made exactly the same over my two years, I learned... Every machine is *UNIQUE*. You can't treat your machine like mine. You need to be able to be the maintenance engineer. You can't diagnose a machine over the phone. A true engineer needs to look, feel, touch, hear the machine to diagnose the issues. If you can't be the Maintenance Engineer for your machine, I would advise you to look into the printers that come with a service plan, where you pay them to fly an engineer to fix your printer(s).

Despite this being a 750$ "toy" compared to the 200,000$ machines I used to work on... the complexity is nearly exactly the same... if anything the printer is MORE complex in some ways.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I get it, your unit works, so please tell the hundreds of other people on this forum and others, why they are ALL having the same issues.

Respectively, Beau.

I used to be a maintenance engineer with a company that had over 200 CNC lathes, and about 20 massive CNC drilling machines, and we had around 10 robotic arms peppered around the building. My job was to fix the machines no matter what broke. I was good at my job. Only twice did I fail at doing that.

90% of my problems, were "OE" Operator Error. I simply had to go and DO THEIR JOB FOR THEM. 5% of my problems were caused by "OE"... For example when they ram the lathe's table into the chuck, or ram the part clamed in the chuck with a tool holder... Oh the misery... Ever hear a 20mm solid tungsten rod snap? It's a wonderful sound similar to a gunshot. Another 3% was caused by maintenance neglect... the machines not getting the love that they actually needed. And only about 2% were legitimate machines having random failures on their own!

My point is, being a maintenance engineer for a few years, taught me many things about humanity. And how MOST people are *NOT* engineers.
After going to the MRRF2018, I learned the true meaning of a few things.
1. RepRap. It's mean's it's a toy. It's a concept, on how to do something stupid. Self Replicating printers. They are *NOT* practical. They are *NOT* optimal. All Prusa's are in the RepRap family of devices. There are other VERY expensive printers as well. My opinion on the Mk3 has COMPLETELY changed after going to that event.
2. The meaning of owning a Prusa has changed to me. I bought the Mk3, because it was open source. I however did not really know what to think of the company itself. Jo is a GREAT guy. And even more than that, is is a GENEROUS guy. But it's not just Jo. The other "bigs" at the RepRap festival were the same way. It's a COMMUNITY, it's not about the "one" it's about the "whole". You might think Prusa and the Green one that looks similar made in the USA, are in competition... but they ARE NOT. They are THE SAME. (Totally different owners, designers, and even ideas...) but the core foundation is the SAME, which I think is to create better 3D printers.

I can print a "Marshmallow Chick" at 0.05mm layers, with a 0.25mm nozzle, and it come out flawless. I can print a test cube with the same nozzle/layer, and keep within 0.03mm of 10mm, XYZ, all day long.

You say "You are lucky your unit is not having problems."
After working on 100+ machines made exactly the same over my two years, I learned... Every machine is *UNIQUE*. You can't treat your machine like mine. You need to be able to be the maintenance engineer. You can't diagnose a machine over the phone. A true engineer needs to look, feel, touch, hear the machine to diagnose the issues. If you can't be the Maintenance Engineer for your machine, I would advise you to look into the printers that come with a service plan, where you pay them to fly an engineer to fix your printer(s).

Despite this being a 750$ "toy" compared to the 200,000$ machines I used to work on... the complexity is nearly exactly the same... if anything the printer is MORE complex in some ways.

Well I guess I didn't do my research enough, so I'm basically screwed if I'm supposed to take hours to fix this myself; work prevents me form any private time as is.

Thank you for the reply.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Are there any early adopters of the MK2S here? I'm curious to hear whether you experienced similar glitchiness with your MK2S at the start. It sounds like that was the case, but I'd be interested to hear someone tell their story of what the gradual improvement process was like. Were there a lot of hardware changes you had to make? Did you do a lot of tweaking on your own?

I can tell you my way in the last two years from MK2 to MK2S in short steps.
1. Assembled the KIT, was able to print right away the provided gcode files
2. Got sometimes warping issue with PLA, realizied and adjusted the correct Z-height. Also correct bed cleaning.
3. Printer was rattling loud. Build an enclosure to keep the printer quiet.
4. Replaced the Y-holder with more robust one
5. Started to print ABS. Z-Height was always random. Found in the forum a solution by raising the nozzle top left and move the bed to the front. Z-Height got reliable again.
6. Bought MK2S upgrade hoping to reduce the rattling issue
7. Realized rattling is caused by the X/Y frame alignment. Readjusted this during MK2S rebuild -> rattling was gone
8. Heater failed from time to time. Contacted support, figured out the issue was broken cable for the heater. Soldering helped, no replacement required
9. Heat bed cable broke/melted. Due to the hard bending by touching my build case sometimes, the cable broke. Found the place and after soldering and adjusting my case, no issues again
10. PINDA cable broke. Didn't find the place where exactly. Bought a replacement, no issues since then.
11. Started to print PTEE and PETG. No hardware adjustments required.

Update: After one year printing the PEI sheet required replacement. Done.

My x-belt is still squishing a little bit and my y-belt is still rubbing a little bit. Still no replacement required, printing fine.
In total I would say I spent 90% on fiddling with the slicer settings and understanding filaments and 10% on maintaining the printer.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Well I guess I didn't do my research enough, so I'm basically screwed if I'm supposed to take hours to fix this myself; work prevents me form any private time as is.

Thank you for the reply.

Sorry if I offended. That was not my intention. I was generalizing people buying 3D printers, not specifically you.
All I'm saying is, MANY people are buying 3D printers, expecting them to work like a printer. You push print, and out comes your picture on a piece of paper. The issue is, with a 3D printer, there are so many variables that can make huge differences. The entire concept of FDM is non-optimal.

THIS CNC lathe, that costs around 100,000$ (I think) has 1 LESS MOTOR than a Prusa Mk2 or Mk3. It is honestly easier to work on, calibrate, and get to do what it is designed to do. On this 2 ton lathe, you simply punch in your tool dimensions, tell the machine to make a cut, and if your cut depth is too deep, you break your 500$ tool. If it's too shallow, you end up with the wrong sized part. But it's simple. A cutter at ___ position will always work. With FDM... is the heat bed the right temp? Is the nozzle right? Was it put together right? Is anything bent? (They are light. 10lbs vs ~5000lbs) Are you extruding too much? Nozzle too fast? Tuning a 100$ 3D printer, is HARDER than tuning a 100,000$ lathe.

I do agree there are issues with the Mk3. Some really upset me. But I still think the Mk3 is a better buy than a Mk2 for someone on a budget.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Well I guess I didn't do my research enough, so I'm basically screwed if I'm supposed to take hours to fix this myself; work prevents me form any private time as is.

Thank you for the reply.

Sorry if I offended. That was not my intention. I was generalizing people buying 3D printers, not specifically you.
All I'm saying is, MANY people are buying 3D printers, expecting them to work like a printer. You push print, and out comes your picture on a piece of paper. The issue is, with a 3D printer, there are so many variables that can make huge differences. The entire concept of FDM is non-optimal.

THIS CNC lathe, that costs around 100,000$ (I think) has 1 LESS MOTOR than a Prusa Mk2 or Mk3. It is honestly easier to work on, calibrate, and get to do what it is designed to do. On this 2 ton lathe, you simply punch in your tool dimensions, tell the machine to make a cut, and if your cut depth is too deep, you break your 500$ tool. If it's too shallow, you end up with the wrong sized part. But it's simple. A cutter at ___ position will always work. With FDM... is the heat bed the right temp? Is the nozzle right? Was it put together right? Is anything bent? (They are light. 10lbs vs ~5000lbs) Are you extruding too much? Nozzle too fast? Tuning a 100$ 3D printer, is HARDER than tuning a 100,000$ lathe.

I do agree there are issues with the Mk3. Some really upset me. But I still think the Mk3 is a better buy than a Mk2 for someone on a budget.

Oh no don't apologize sir haha, I'm just sad that I can't get my printer working fr more than 1 print.

I was hoping i could leave it alone and go work and come back and have something done with little chance of failure, and so far I've gotten the exact opposite of that experience, so forgive my frustrated tone.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

All I'm saying is, MANY people are buying 3D printers, expecting them to work like a printer. You push print, and out comes your picture on a piece of paper. The issue is, with a 3D printer, there are so many variables that can make huge differences. The entire concept of FDM is non-optimal.

Be that as it may, this is not a unsolvable problem. I have friends with Lulzbot printers that are happily printing with their machines right out of the box. On top of that, when I talk to them, they don't have even a third of the knowledge of FDM that I have (and I have barely any). Yet, they keep telling me how easy it is.

I am not saying that Lulzbot printers don't have issues. What I am saying is that you don't need advanced degrees in FDM processes. All of those issues are solvable and one could produce a FDM printer that is like a normal printer. Of course, you end up paying for it. Lulzbot printers start at $1500.

When a product has a certain price tag and is marketed a certain way, it generates a certain perception of quality and operation in people's minds. It seems that the MK3 is not meeting those perceptions. In other words, if a user is expected to have to change, and tinker, and debug, what is the incentive to spend $800 rather than $500 or less?

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Be that as it may, this is not a unsolvable problem. I have friends with Lulzbot printers that are happily printing with their machines right out of the box. On top of that, when I talk to them, they don't have even a third of the knowledge of FDM that I have (and I have barely any). Yet, they keep telling me how easy it is.

I am not saying that Lulzbot printers don't have issues. What I am saying is that you don't need advanced degrees in FDM processes. All of those issues are solvable and one could produce a FDM printer that is like a normal printer. Of course, you end up paying for it. Lulzbot printers start at $1500.

When a product has a certain price tag and is marketed a certain way, it generates a certain perception of quality and operation in people's minds. It seems that the MK3 is not meeting those perceptions. In other words, if a user is expected to have to change, and tinker, and debug, what is the incentive to spend $800 rather than $500 or less?

The Lulzbot mini, the printer you are referring to, requires a computer (octoprint works) to even get it to print. It has a 152x152x158 build volume. This places it in the "mini" printer category, which Prusa is not in. To compare a 1250$ MINI printer, to a 750$ (large) Full size printer, is not fair. I myself would have likely gotten a lulzbot if the Lulzbot Taz6 was 1250$. Except it's not. It's 2500$. It's a touch bigger than the mk3, but that's the one that compares to the mk3... Except I can buy 3 Mk3's, for the price of *ONE* of those.

BEGIN RANT ABOUT CONCEPTS
Lulzbot, uses 3mm fillament. It ships with a 0.5mm nozzle, and it's DEFAULT first layer height is 0.4mm. Lulzbot only reccomends to print AS LOW AS 0.2MM LAYER HEIGHT. (I know, you can get it lower). The lulzbot is *NOT* a printer for printing your BEAUTIFUL hobby art prints. (can it do it, yes, but it's non-optimal)

Personally, I'm looking into saving and picking up a Lulzbot Taz used... Just not for the reasons anyone would think. I want to go backwards. I want to use 3mm filament. (I'm also looking into the concept of scrapping one of my old printers, and rebuilding it into a 3mm printer)

The Prusa has a default 0.2mm first layer. This is a VERY nice layer. The issue is, if bed leveling, Live Z, etc, are not PERFECT, it can VERY quickly lead to disaster! My point is... the bigger the fatter, the thicker the layers, the less "critical" perfection is. a .5.7mm wide extrusion on a perimeter that's 0.3mm thick, say it under extrudes 5%... you won't even notice it. On the Mk3, with a 0.45 wide perimeter layer that's 0.05mm thick... a 5% under extrusion will be HIGHLY visible, and completely destroy any strength of your print.
Take the Part Daddy. (the world's largest delta printer) It can't even do retractions, it oozes EVERYWHERE... Yet on the outside perimeters, you can't see a single hint of over/under extrusion! Why? Because on that monster even a 10% over/under, isn't even visible.

The concept of the Prusa is different than the concept of the LULZ bot. That's why the Lulzbot works so well. Essentially the Lulzbot, is the Pinnacle of 3D printers from 5 year ago. (revised, revised revised revised)
The Prusa is... more forward looking, but the breaking new CONCEPTS, are not yet perfect.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

If it's firmware, then everyone would be having issues. Many are not having issues (including myself), so my take is the firmware is mostly good.

Everyone IS having issues, just browse the forum, other forums, youtube- hundreds of people have issues.

Everyone IS NOT having issues. How many MK3 kits/assembled printers have been sold/shipped? Over 5,000 shipped from what I read some place. I haven't seen over 5,000 different users complaining about the same issues. From the prints that I have printed so far on my MK3 the quality is approximately the same as the 2 MK2S that I have. Am I the only person that hasn't had issues? I doubt it. The people that don't have issues generally don't come to the forums, and if they do come here, they generally just read the forums and don't respond.

I finished a 45 hour print the other night, using really cheap PLA ($14 KG). Were there some defects, yes, but that was due to the pre-processing I had to do to it because of the ultra thin walls on certain pieces, and loose pieces (drawing was made for manufacturing not 3d printing) and due to some of the support structure.

Note: my MK3 was prebuilt by PRUSA, received it mid-Feb. I have not done any fine tuning to it - no Z adjust, no flow adjustments, etc. Straight out of the box. I ran prints with the original firmware that came with it and then upgrade to the latest firmware.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that it was concerning that there was almost no interaction from Prusa admins on these forums when dealing with questions about firmware and parts, it seems you need to rely on other users rather than help from official Prusa support (the one time I sent support a message I got no response, and that was over 3 weeks ago). I am thankful for this amount of unofficial support, but I would feel more secure in solving my printer's existing issues if every week or so someone at Prusa would just chime in on what's currently being worked on, and that they are putting some sort of urgency and time into it, knowing that some of us rely on these printers for more than just a hobby.

I have a small prototyping business focusing on producing IOT devices and functional prototypes of products for entrepreneurs, previously using Ultimaker machines in a shared space for cheap custom parts. If I could go back in time I would probably invest in something more user friendly and reliable than the MK3, but at this point, after about a month of constant tinkering and trial and error tests (using about 1kg of material) I am comfortable enough to reproduce multiple copies of custom parts without worrying about catastrophic, irreversible failure. This definitely isn't a plug and play machine (even if you buy it pre-assembled as I did) and requires a good amount of patience and work. I'm definitely wary about the reliability and trustworthiness of Prusa as a company from my personal issues with my pre-assembled printer and my customer service experience, but I've put in enough bonding time with my printer that I do see it as more of a helping hand than a hindrance. I may cover up the "prusa" logo on the top and just give it a cute name so I like it more.

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

I got my printer last week and i am happy with it
This is my first printer and i actually works better then i expected. I press print and a few hours later i got a part.
Well atleast for the stuff that are provided with the memory card, had some failed prints with stuff i sliced myself. But that probably because i not know how to use slicer correctly.

I got kids so i dont hava alot of time so i rushed the assembly making many mistakes. somethings i noticed in time. I put to much tension on the berings holding the hotplate assembly i fixed that. i actually put the frame backwards so i couldnt put the moderboard in its correct place. so know its on the table. but it still works.
I think i overthightend the filament pusher things because its sqeeks and leaving marks on the filament, will try to loosen that.
I have oiled almost all moving parts with gun oil to make them run smothly.

I think if you dont enjoy building things and thinker with them. order a pre build the hours you put into assembly is not worth it if you not think its fun.

I will probably put everything apart and rebuild it again. I see some possible upgrades you can make.

will it print better than a cheap chinese copy. i really dont care. I may be wrong here but i think Prusa is one of the people making the cheap Chinese copies good because he is releasing everything open source. And i got the money to sponsor that. To me i bought something more than the printer.

I dont really know what i want to say with this. But if you think its something wrong with the firmware it is open source. so stop whining start hacking maybe 🙂

Re: Might cancel order and get the MK2S

The Mk3 is a leading edge machine with many features that are yet to reach their final form and potential. It is a tinkerers machine and a great deal of time and effort can be put into optimising its output both in the hardware and software aspects, and anyone who takes part in this is having in some small way a part in its development.

It has been noted elsewhere that the Mk3 is a machine barely out of prototype stage. It is not a finished "press button to operate" appliance. Perhaps come back in a year or so when Prusa and the community have polished it to its peak.

No, its not, tell me on the web where its stated that this is a prototype machine and not a finished product, please...