First time printing with petg, problems.

jorgen.r

(@jorgen-r)

Eminent Member

First time printing with petg, problems.

hello

So its my first time printing with petg, and i read in the handbook to use window cleaner to clean the bed. I have done it but my first layers comes out really bad, i have also change the live z a bit(maybe wrong). but im too noob to figure out myself, hopefully someone can help. I put some picture below so you can see.

https://imgur.com/a/nRjI6
https://imgur.com/a/i4PUR
https://imgur.com/a/lZ6uA
https://imgur.com/a/t6pxT
https://imgur.com/a/9KeF6

Thanks in advance

Posted : 08/03/2018 10:15 am

stahlfabrik

(@stahlfabrik)

Honorable Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

First layer is too high. That could solve the problems IMHO

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:14 pm

Jbravo88

(@jbravo88)

Trusted Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

First layer is too high. That could solve the problems IMHO

Hello, you mean temperature or extruder speed?

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:16 pm

JoanTabb

(@joantabb)

Veteran Member Moderator

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

live Z height, too small a negative number

try reducing extrusion multiplier to say .95

try reducing first layer speed.

regards Joan

I try to make safe suggestions,You should understand the context and ensure you are happy that they are safe before attempting to apply my suggestions, what you do, is YOUR responsibility. Location Halifax UK

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:20 pm

jorgen.r

(@jorgen-r)

Eminent Member

Topic starter answered:

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

First layer is too high. That could solve the problems IMHO

i try that, thanks. should the nozzle be lower or higher than a good first layer with pla?

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:21 pm

stahlfabrik

(@stahlfabrik)

Honorable Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

First layer is too high. That could solve the problems IMHO

Hello, you mean temperature or extruder speed?

I mean "live adjust z" - the nozzle is too high. You see that by the split lines of your layer that SHOULD be welded together. There would weld if the material would be more squished. You must dial "live adjust Z" to more negative value. E.g from -0.820. to maybe -0.840. Of course I make these numbers just up.

Speed is also a factor IMHO. I did not print much PETG yet but reducing speed on the first layer increased my chances of getting the PETG to stick to the bed.

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:23 pm

stahlfabrik

(@stahlfabrik)

Honorable Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

First layer is too high. That could solve the problems IMHO

i try that, thanks. should the nozzle be lower or higher than a good first layer with pla?

Don't get me started:-) (aka. see my struggles to hunt down the problems I experience in other threads)

I guess in a perfect, bug free printer the live adjust z value should be exactly the same. Because in a manual bed leveling process the thickness of a sheet of paper is what you use to dial in your nozzle hight. Sadly, the PINDA currently makes live hard...

Posted : 08/03/2018 12:26 pm

Jbravo88

(@jbravo88)

Trusted Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

First layer is too high. That could solve the problems IMHO

Hello, you mean temperature or extruder speed?

I mean "live adjust z" - the nozzle is too high. You see that by the split lines of your layer that SHOULD be welded together. There would weld if the material would be more squished. You must dial "live adjust Z" to more negative value. E.g from -0.820. to maybe -0.840. Of course I make these numbers just up.

Speed is also a factor IMHO. I did not print much PETG yet but reducing speed on the first layer increased my chances of getting the PETG to stick to the bed.

Ah.. thanks stahlfabrik for that info, reason I asked cause I've also be experiencing petg issues but filament starts to stick to the sides of the nozzle and makes peaks and valleys on the layers. I placed a E3d sock on the block before the first print so clean up was easy I got temp to high maybe 250 where it's at. The rest is standard on generic filament settings on Prusa slic3r.

Posted : 08/03/2018 2:37 pm

Peter L

(@peter-l)

Honorable Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

I guess in a perfect, bug free printer the live adjust z value should be exactly the same. Because in a manual bed leveling process the thickness of a sheet of paper is what you use to dial in your nozzle hight. Sadly, the PINDA currently makes live hard...

No, not really. Different materials have different properties. PLA tends to be more forgiving of sloppiness with the Live Z than PETG, and I've found that PETG tends to like a slightly higher bed than PLA.

There will never be a day when you can change materials and not have to make any other changes. The best we can hope for is that the required changes will all be preset somehow and ready to go. But we're still a ways from that, too.

Posted : 08/03/2018 6:12 pm

stahlfabrik

(@stahlfabrik)

Honorable Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

I guess in a perfect, bug free printer the live adjust z value should be exactly the same. Because in a manual bed leveling process the thickness of a sheet of paper is what you use to dial in your nozzle hight. Sadly, the PINDA currently makes live hard...

No, not really. Different materials have different properties. PLA tends to be more forgiving of sloppiness with the Live Z than PETG, and I've found that PETG tends to like a slightly higher bed than PLA.

There will never be a day when you can change materials and not have to make any other changes. The best we can hope for is that the required changes will all be preset somehow and ready to go. But we're still a ways from that, too.

Hi Peter,

to be honest I just have the experience of the MK3 and its PINDA probe is software wise buggy. So I could not collect the experience of having a manual calibrate bed. Maybe my expectations of manual bed leveling (which does not change from centigrade to centigrade) are too romantic:-)

We will see how the MK3 performs when the bug is fixed and the temperature calibration can be fine tuned... soon...

Posted : 08/03/2018 10:20 pm

OneThou

(@onethou)

Member Moderator

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

After having real problems with Prusa PETG during my first row of prints, I've finally managed to tune this in Slic3r so that print quality and performance matches Prusa PLA on my printer, which by my definition means virtually string-free, smooth finish prints which stick to the bed.

Here's what works for me when printing with layer height 0.2mm.

General Notes:

My printer is a MK3 with the golden steel print sheet. No printer enclosure.

Currently using Slic3r 1.39.1

Windex or any other ammoniac-based cleaners are not available in my country. I use "Frosch Spiritusreiniger" instead, which is a window cleaner made up of alcohol and detergents. Window cleaners containing detergents (tensides) only did not work for me.

I print in a very cool environment (workshop temperature is around 10-15°C)

Filament settings:

Extruder multiplier: 0.85 (the Prusa preset of 1 would cause massive stringing and buildup on the nozzle)

Extruder temp.: 230° / 240°

Bed: 85° / 90°

Print Settings (Layers and Perimeters):

Layer height: 0.2mm

First layer height: 0.35mm (the Prusa preset of 0.2mm would squeeze the filament onto the bed and cause it to not stick)

Perimeters: 2

All "Quality" options checked

Print Settings (Skirt and Brim):

Skirt: 1 loop (a second loop would sometimes catch on the tiny blob on the start of the first loop, so I kept it at 1)

Distance from object: 10mm (further away from the model than the Prusa preset in case a string does manage to make it from the skirt to the object)

Sklrt height: 1 layer

Print Settings:

Infill speed: 50mm/s (Prusa preset of 200mm/s was way too fast and would cause stringing)

Solid infill speed: 50mm/s

First layer speed: 40% (this considerable speed reduction plus the first layer height were vital for making the first layer stick)

Printer Settings:

Retraction Length: 1 mm

Posted : 09/03/2018 2:41 pm

RH_Dreambox

(@rh_dreambox)

Prominent Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

With that ambient temperature, you really have to preheat the printer before printing.

Bear MK3 with Bondtech extruder

Posted : 09/03/2018 6:24 pm

OneThou

(@onethou)

Member Moderator

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

With that ambient temperature, you really have to preheat the printer before printing.

Yes, I agree, if only to preheat myself too 😀

It fits quite well into the routine though: while the printer heats up, I can clean the bed, load the STL into Slic3r, check everything without hurry, write the G-Code to the SD card, and by then the printer is almost ready to go.

Posted : 09/03/2018 9:11 pm

Jbravo88

(@jbravo88)

Trusted Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

After having real problems with Prusa PETG during my first row of prints, I've finally managed to tune this in Slic3r so that print quality and performance matches Prusa PLA on my printer, which by my definition means virtually string-free, smooth finish prints which stick to the bed.

Here's what works for me when printing with layer height 0.2mm.

General Notes:

My printer is a MK3 with the golden steel print sheet. No printer enclosure.

Currently using Slic3r 1.39.1

Windex or any other ammoniac-based cleaners are not available in my country. I use "Frosch Spiritusreiniger" instead, which is a window cleaner made up of alcohol and detergents. Window cleaners containing detergents (tensides) only did not work for me.

I print in a very cool environment (workshop temperature is around 10-15°C)

Filament settings:

Extruder multiplier: 0.85 (the Prusa preset of 1 would cause massive stringing and buildup on the nozzle)

Extruder temp.: 230° / 240°

Bed: 85° / 90°

Print Settings (Layers and Perimeters):

Layer height: 0.2mm

First layer height: 0.35mm (the Prusa preset of 0.2mm would squeeze the filament onto the bed and cause it to not stick)

Perimeters: 2

All "Quality" options checked

Print Settings (Skirt and Brim):

Skirt: 1 loop (a second loop would sometimes catch on the tiny blob on the start of the first loop, so I kept it at 1)

Distance from object: 10mm (further away from the model than the Prusa preset in case a string does manage to make it from the skirt to the object)

Sklrt height: 1 layer

Print Settings:

Infill speed: 50mm/s (Prusa preset of 200mm/s was way too fast and would cause stringing)

Solid infill speed: 50mm/s

First layer speed: 40% (this considerable speed reduction plus the first layer height were vital for making the first layer stick)

your a god send I used these settings and my Petg problems went away did a test on a batman logo using prusa slic3r and did an amazing job. I'm starting the pi easy access case for the einsy and 2 hours in still doing well. thank you the ambient temp in the room is 24'C I also found that by slowing the speed on the knob to 85-50 the gaps near the outline edge of the lair closes up a bit more blue is petg

Posted : 10/03/2018 8:14 pm

Jeff Bartig

(@jeff-bartig)

Active Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

I've found that with both ABS and PETG, an enclosure really helps when the air temperature is low. My office isn't as cold as your space, normally 15-20C, but it still seems too cold to get reliable prints. Using the Generic PETG setting in slic3r-PE, my print looked OK, but it had poor strength. The layers easily broke apart. I made a crude enclosure out of a large, clear trash bag for testing. It is enough to retain the heat and keep away cool drafts. Now the PETG filament I have prints well and the layers are strong. When I have more time, I'm planning on building an enclosure for the MK3.

Posted : 11/03/2018 3:35 am

jorgen.r

(@jorgen-r)

Eminent Member

Topic starter answered:

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

i resliced the part in prusa controll(used s3d before) and i got out a part. but it doesnt look nice, so hopefully someone can give me some more tips.

https://imgur.com/a/vQcuU
https://imgur.com/a/UfBrT
https://imgur.com/a/GpoHB
https://imgur.com/a/VdVBr

thanks

Posted : 11/03/2018 6:42 pm

stahlfabrik

(@stahlfabrik)

Honorable Member

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

I had big problems with PETG in the first layer - I increased the first layer temp by 7 degrees (5 were OK, 10 too much). Problems gone!

Posted : 11/03/2018 6:53 pm

OneThou

(@onethou)

Member Moderator

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

Filament settings:

Extruder multiplier: 0.85 (the Prusa preset of 1 would cause massive stringing and buildup on the nozzle)

Extruder temp.: 230° / 240°

Bed: 85° / 90°

With a recent "large" build (100x80mm), I had some problems with first layer adhesion. During the second and subsequent layers, the nozzle would partially shear off individual strings of the first layer from the bed in some spots.

This problem disappeared after increasing bed temperature to 90°C and extruder temp to 240°C for the first layer (= same values as for the subsequent layers). Again, I was printing at a low ambient temperature of 13°C and without enclosure.

Posted : 23/03/2018 11:05 pm

OneThou

(@onethou)

Member Moderator

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

I had big problems with PETG in the first layer - I increased the first layer temp by 7 degrees (5 were OK, 10 too much). Problems gone!

Same experience here.

Posted : 23/03/2018 11:07 pm

OneThou

(@onethou)

Member Moderator

Re: First time printing with petg, problems.

When I have more time, I'm planning on building an enclosure for the MK3.

I realize that building an enclosure would probably be beneficial for cold workspaces like mine, and would offer other advantages as well (e.g. mounting possibilities for LED lighting and a webcam). However, I first need to find a solution to the "when I have more time" problem as well…

Posted : 23/03/2018 11:13 pm