Re: Am I the only one
Here's a thought, how about if you guys stop acting like spoiled little children.
The Power Coated PEI Sheet is delayed, S--T happens, Get over it!
Rather than delay shipments of the printers, they are sending out different sheets with PEI. The majority of the people would rather get a printer earlier with the Power Coated PEI later. If you don't like it, get in touch with Customer Service and have them hold your shipment until the Power Coated sheet is available or get a refund.
Re: Am I the only one
People are entitled to their opinion just as you are, that theirs is somehow different to yours doesn't make them children.
Re: Am I the only one
People are entitled to their opinion just as you are, that theirs is somehow different to yours doesn't make them children.
No what makes them children is that they are crying despite the available options.
- You want a Power Coated sheet, contact Customer Service and tell them to hold your order until it's available.
- You don't want to wait, pay extra shipping in the future or are not happy, request a refund.
Instead all I'm hearing is a 4 year olds response to being told they can have one dessert today and another tomorrow
Re: Am I the only one
I'm not that sure about Prusa anymore, looking at the current situation customer service is not really kind and helpful, public informations are a big mess, product is changed 1day before shipping....mh...prob I'll wait next 18 days to have (almost) the product I paid 2 months ago but to say I'm happy it's not true. I understand they prefer to have money before but I'm pretty sure they can risk a little bit more and sell a lot more products prepared in advance with a lot better quality (especially from customer and support point of view). A customer waiting 2 months for a product paid in advance is expecting clear information, quick updates and reliability.
I just hope I'll not be more disappointed in a couple of weeks if shipping e-mail will not be in my mailbox
Re: Am I the only one
@ Joe: i really think it´s great how you proof who is the child here 😉
In a legal view the powder coated sheet is a "guaranteed property" of the printer, because it was advertised and sold as that. And as the printer is not sold as advertised, this would legally constitute a serious deficiency.
And there is no problem in delivering the printer ASAP to all customers with another print sheet when the manufacturing does not keep up. It would most probably be also no problem if the glued PEI plate is a direct equivalent of the powder coated plate... but it is not. It will surely be not as durable (which was advertised), and no textured finish.
It would also be no problem if the sheet gets backordered and is sent by Prusa automatically upon availability.
But there is a problem when you then have to pay again for shipping and even the part itself. Funny sidenote is that Prusa is not able to deliver a part and then even earns money on the backorders 😀
And the sheet, i´m almost sure, is not powder coated by Prusa themselves. So Prusa has a supplier, who guaranteed a delivery datum to prusa, which they were not able to hold. Do you really think Prusa will pay for the sheets? There is a legal process called regress.
As was said in another thread, their behaviour is unethical and does not increase trust by the customers. Good thing for them is they have a great product...
But i understand that all of you wanna have everything now, to hell with rights and money. I´m sure that Prusa could make a lot of money by introducing an priority line which is double the price, but gets delivered within one week.
Hmm, thats actually a good idea. With the MK4 we should by the first 1000 units and sell them to the highest bidder.... 😀
Re: Am I the only one
The reason people are upset is that the only options they're being offered are to either pay more money for the correct sheet at the end of January or to delay the shipment date. Neither options sits well and Prusa should reconsider the options they provided us. I'd feel much better with either a free shipping voucher in addition to the $10 voucher, a discount on the original purchase price that would cover the cost of the new sheet, or Prusa sending the sheet for free when they're available.
Re: Am I the only one
I'd feel much better with either a free shipping voucher in addition to the $10 voucher, a discount on the original purchase price that would cover the cost of the new sheet, or Prusa sending the sheet for free when they're available.
Thumbs up!
Re: Am I the only one
I think there are multiple sides here.
I think Prusa could have done better:
What many people here could have done better is to act a bit more mature about it. Reading the thread, I get a definite feeling from many of "entitlement". They paid for something, it was clearly stated that it was pre-production with an estimated release schedule, it slipped, and now they are talking about ethics and "legal issues".
I very much want Prusa to continue to act like Prusa: being on the bleeding edge, pushing the limits of what these printers can do, pioneering cool new features. Doing that takes risk taking and means production will slip sometimes. However, if they need to start hiring lawyers and PR people because of a backlash in the forums, that is fewer people available to research/build cool new features (32 bit Marlin boards!)
Re: Am I the only one
I worked on new product launches for my company and I guarantee you that this is normal for most products when you pre-sell them. When companies first announce they have a new product and it is not already in full production and tested is hey are doing this with a lab prototype where parts are custom made and instruments are all hand built and may not be in final design form. When you go to full productions you find out all your production problems with vendors, your process, Material issues etc. What worked on the prototypes that were all hand built and customer made parts may not work on a full production model because you are now finding issues with parts that are mass produces and purchased.
Ok, Your Prusa or any other company and you took pre-orders and you announced a launch date and your product is 90%ish percent their what do you do? Depends on what the issue is. You could push back the entire launch of the product, you could give people a work around with a promise of a fix sometime in the near future, you could offer to ship "As Is" with reduced capabilities with some kind of compensation, etc etc etc.
I think what Prusa is doing is more than acceptable in compensating their customers. You have the option of waiting or getting a product with a work around until they fix their production issue.
My 2 Cents.
Richard
Re: Am I the only one
I wonder how much of a snow ball effect this will have on the 2.5 and 3.0 upgrade kits. Or will they offer the same two sided sticky sheets on flexible plates?
Re: Am I the only one
I wonder how much of a snow ball effect this will have on the 2.5 and 3.0 upgrade kits. Or will they offer the same two sided sticky sheets on flexible plates?
I would not think so. The whole point of the upgrade is to get the powder coat plate. I would think these orders are pushed back until they are ready to ship.
Re: Am I the only one
@ Joe: i really think it´s great how you proof who is the child here 😉
In a legal view the powder coated sheet is a "guaranteed property" of the printer, because it was advertised and sold as that. And as the printer is not sold as advertised, this would legally constitute a serious deficiency.
And there is no problem in delivering the printer ASAP to all customers with another print sheet when the manufacturing does not keep up. It would most probably be also no problem if the glued PEI plate is a direct equivalent of the powder coated plate... but it is not. It will surely be not as durable (which was advertised), and no textured finish.
It would also be no problem if the sheet gets backordered and is sent by Prusa automatically upon availability.
But there is a problem when you then have to pay again for shipping and even the part itself. Funny sidenote is that Prusa is not able to deliver a part and then even earns money on the backorders 😀
And the sheet, i´m almost sure, is not powder coated by Prusa themselves. So Prusa has a supplier, who guaranteed a delivery datum to prusa, which they were not able to hold. Do you really think Prusa will pay for the sheets? There is a legal process called regress.
As was said in another thread, their behaviour is unethical and does not increase trust by the customers. Good thing for them is they have a great product...
But i understand that all of you wanna have everything now, to hell with rights and money. I´m sure that Prusa could make a lot of money by introducing an priority line which is double the price, but gets delivered within one week.
Hmm, thats actually a good idea. With the MK4 we should by the first 1000 units and sell them to the highest bidder.... 😀
Tell me what in your response doesn't fall under one of these two options?
- You want a Power Coated sheet, contact Customer Service and tell them to hold your order until it's available.
- You don't want to wait, pay extra shipping in the future or are not happy, request a refund.
You are basically crying that "I WANT IT AND WANT IT NOW" over the fact of the situation and the options to deal with it.
Re: Am I the only one
I'm not sure that having a feeling of entitlement really reflects on the maturity of a poster when the context of it is that of a consumer.
I guess that it comes down to which part of the definition of 'entitlement' is being referred to.
Personally, I do feel entitled to receive what I've paid for as everyone should. I don't think it's wrong for any customer to feel entitled in that instance, it's a basic right of a consumer.
I wouldn't even consider heading down a legal route as it'd be a pointless exercise in my view. If the legal side is a concern then a refund request would make the most sense. I still want my printer and will decide what path to take when it gets around to me. With any luck, Prusa will read into people opinions on these matters and hopefully offer a more amicable solution by then.
As it stands today, yep, i'm an unhappy customer. I'm unhappy with the solution put forward and believe that there are other way they could handle it which would minimise the number of unhappy customers out there. Examples given in mine and others posts on here. We can all take a guess at whether that's a majority of people or a minority but realistically none of us know as we don't have the data and posters on here are likely to be only a fraction of the customer base. It may be that there's many people out there that have no idea that this solution is even being offered (forced?) as they don't frequent the site checking for updates. There's been no email notification regarding it so maybe complaints will only come in once (or if) it's pointed out in a shipping notice or maybe worse, when the actual product turns up. If that were the case then that would obviously change the situation.
For me personally, I'll see how it gets handled and I'll see what choices I have to make at the time. That will then influence whether I decide to buy from Prusa again or look elsewhere. It's in their interests to keep us as happy customers so i'm sure they'll make up their minds on how to deal with it in the long run based on feedback from a much larger collection than we'll see.
None of that should prevent me from being able to voice my thoughts and experience on it from the position of being a customer as I did in an earlier post.
Re: Am I the only one
Up until November Prusa advertised that shipping "would start" in November though maybe not a lie was certainly misleading so the "whining" it could be argued is somewhat justified.
Prusa surely had to know they couldn't meet delivery for a while, my guess is at least month and maybe even from the beginning. Prusa failed to communicate realistic delivery dates to the customer, us, so a decision could be made as to stay the course or get a refund. If I were in their shoes I would have started laying the groundwork for missed deliveries as early as possible to minimize the outrage that is occurring now, at least that's how I handle late deliveries on my end, yes Prusa I can regretfully empathize with you, however I handle missed deliveries much differently than you are. From what I can glean from order numbers Prusa looks to have sold around $1m worth of printers during the pre order. A recent expansion probably ate in to their capital so they used the money from pre orders to fund the initial run with a pretty good idea of what actual deliveries would be from the get go. A decent critical path analysis should have gotten them close with delivery dates... My guess again is that the 3D printed parts are the bottle neck with the main board being second all other parts look to be somewhat off the shelf. The cost of purchased parts should get cheaper with increasing quantities so it wouldn't be in their best interest to purchase smaller lots.
Right now Prusa has a solid product in a niche market so they'll get the business but without improved customer service will not do well if the market ever goes mainstream. The acrid taste of this experience will linger on the interwebs for a long time to come and may play into future orders. Lesson to Prusa the best companies tend to have the best customer service, eg Amazon, Costco, Apple if you truly want to be around for the long term you need to reevaluate your CS department...
richard.p16 out of curiosity, what kind of product launches have you been involved in? I agree with much of what you say but surely when you had your issues you knew well in advance of release day that you wouldn't be able to meet delivery. I do mostly one off heavy industrial equipment and with the exception of catastrophic issues have a pretty good idea where my delivery will be months in advance.
Re: Am I the only one
Gosh,
To me the fact that the build plate was powdercoated was nice but not critical. The fact that we instead get a PEI sheet/glued coated is perfectly fine with me. I was going to order some spare printsheets anyhow, so I will just add another one to the ones I was going to order. Looking at all different printer I have used in the past and am currently using, I am perfectly happy with the offered option.
As for the delivery times, I hoped to get mine somewhere mid january, but if it shifts oh well, thats fine too. I am currently a backer on kickstarter and have been waiting for one item for 2 years already. Does this annoy mne, sure a bit but I do understand. Prusa is not a mega company and they too depend on their suppliers. Delays happen, no question about it.
Re: Am I the only one
It's not a big deal to me, I'm okay with the other sheet if I can get my order faster. I'll probably order the other one too once it's available. Sometimes when you're an early adopter you need to be a little flexible.
Re: Am I the only one
Personally, I do feel entitled to receive what I've paid for as everyone should. I don't think it's wrong for any customer to feel entitled in that instance, it's a basic right of a consumer.
Simply email Prusa and tell that and finsih with "so with that said, please delay my shipment until the PC sheet is available"
I wouldn't even consider heading down a legal route as it'd be a pointless exercise in my view. If the legal side is a concern then a refund request would make the most sense. I still want my printer and will decide what path to take when it gets around to me. With any luck, Prusa will read into people opinions on these matters and hopefully offer a more amicable solution by then.
There is no legal avenue because you have to option of a refund
As it today, yep, i'm an unhappy customer. I'm unhappy with
the solution put forward and believe that there are other way they could handle it which would minimise the number of unhappy customers out there. Examples given in mine and others posts on here. We can all take a guess at whether that's a majority of people or a minority but realistically none of us know as we don't have the data and posters on here are likely to be only a fraction of the customer base. It may be that there's many people out there that have no idea that this solution is even being offered (forced?) as they don't frequent the site checking for updates. There's been no email notification regarding it so maybe complaints will only come in once (or if) it's pointed out in a shipping notice or maybe worse, when the actual product turns up. If that were the case then that would obviously change the situation.
They have sent out emails and should continue to do so
For me personally, I'll see how it gets handled and I'll see what choices I have to make at the time. That will then influence whether I decide to buy from Prusa again or look elsewhere. It's in their interests to keep us as happy customers so i'm sure they'll make up their minds on how to deal with it in the long run based on feedback from a much larger collection than we'll see.
A very mature thought process
None of that should prevent me from being able to voice my thoughts and experience on it from the position of being a customer as I did in an earlier post.
No but no one should have to listen about others crying over spilt milk either 🙂
Re: Am I the only one
Gosh,
..........
As for the delivery times, I hoped to get mine somewhere mid january, but if it shifts oh well, thats fine too. I am currently a backer on kickstarter and have been waiting for one item for 2 years already. Does this annoy mne, sure a bit but I do understand. Prusa is not a mega company and they too depend on their suppliers. Delays happen, no question about it.
You are correct, delays from suppliers happen, however, a supplier delay disrupts the entire workflow. If Prusa were having supply side issues it was known about earlier and open communication with regard to supply issues would have alleviated a lot of the hostility that is presently occurring...
As for Kicksarter, I've never been a fan so won't comment, but Prusa is an established business at this point not an upstart and they really need to act like one if they want to dominate the market in the future. I'm new to 3D printing and this is little more than an experiment for me and other than the desire for instant gratification am missing nothing by having my shipment delayed. In the past few weeks I've scaled and printed a few of my presently running jobs at shapeways for grins and mocked-up a few other ideas for fun, but overall doing so has gotten kind of spendy. If I'm going to continue playing on shapeways I'll need to find a way to monetize my ideas.
What really piqued my interest with regard to 3D printing is that my kid was telling me about how the school uses an MRI to 3D print fractures in animals and use the model to form surgical mesh and set pin locations prior to performing surgery. I realized I'm starting to become a dinosaur and began looking at 3D printers in September with a budget of 3K and the Prusa really seems to be the best for the $$ so here I sit.
Re: Am I the only one
No but no one should have to listen about others crying over spilt milk either 🙂
No one is forced to 😀
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Re: Am I the only one
@Incalculable :
i agree 100%
It is one of the major advertised features. An Mr. Prusa himself said so...
I will wait what happens. If it is delivered without asking me before shipping whether i want to wait or with the f...ing useless Voucher - i will not accept this.
That would be no option.
i orderd 29.9 - so hopefully i will get it before christmas. ( https://shop.prusa3d.com/en/order-history )
if i only get a Voucher (10$ ??? and 30$ shipping...) i will personally drive to them an put it up their A.