Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
I'm still not sure, if using HEPA filters does any good. On most places I read, that HEPA can't trap UFP-s, just bigger particles, like pollens, and maybe smoke. A carbon filter does sound good anyway.
This is how I've imagined my filtration "system" (allowing for inner circulation, and venting out)
The air is driven into a tube-like construction where it gets through the filters (two mask filters; a particle, and a carbon filter) , then the cleaned air just escapes back to the chamber through the holes on the side of the tube.
If I want to fan out the air I can push the exhaust pipe into the whole thing, blocking the aforementioned holes and letting the air out.
Maybe this week I'll visit a filter-shop nearby, and settle for a combined HEPA-carbon filter, and redesign the whole thing... 🙄
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
I'm still not sure, if using HEPA filters does any good. On most places I read, that HEPA can't trap UFP-s, just bigger particles, like pollens, and maybe smoke. A carbon filter does sound good anyway.
This is how I've imagined my filtration "system" (allowing for inner circulation, and venting out)
The air is driven into a tube-like construction where it gets through the filters (two mask filters; a particle, and a carbon filter) , then the cleaned air just escapes back to the chamber through the holes on the side of the tube.
If I want to fan out the air I can push the exhaust pipe into the whole thing, blocking the aforementioned holes and letting the air out.
Maybe this week I'll visit a filter-shop nearby, and settle for a combined HEPA-carbon filter, and redesign the whole thing... 🙄
Came to the same conclusion about the HEPA filter after some research.
Going for a combined filter certainly will not hurt, replacement filters from vacuum cleaners are affordable, just have to design around it, some come in funny dimensions.
I like your design, cool idea.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
Rather than filter toxic air, how about capturing it? If one made the enclosure air tight, could the toxic air be pump into an air container. You you could just periodically take the tank outside and release the bad air.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
I also like the Ikea based design:
http://hackaday.com/2016/12/05/breathe-easy-with-a-laser-cutter-air-filter/
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
My understanding is that you need both a HEPA filter and activated carbon to adequate address the particulates. The HEPA filter catches the ultra fine particles (size they catch depends on the HEPA filter class and amount of air flow through the filter; there are studies that show the efficacy based on filter class, particle size, and air flow) and the activated carbon catches the volatile organic compounds (VOCs).
A number of studies now show both ultra fine particles and VOCs released during 3d printing, the degree to which varies significantly based on material and printer used. Other studies have shown these compounds to be harmful or carcinogenic, but at what level I have not read enough through the literature to know this. However perhaps not surprisingly, the aforementioned studies showed ABS released significantly higher amounts of ultra fine particles and VOCs. More studies will be coming out and its good we are all addressing this now as a community as we become aware.
If anyone is interested, I believe 3dprintclean's website (a 3d enclosure filtration system) lists some of those studies.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
Well, I take my time to look at everything. I do not like HEPA and active carbon only, as they tend to saturate and you do not really know when it happens. I am now looking for ESP (Electrostatic Precipitator) approach.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_precipitator
Principle is to use a high tension generator, and to use a electrode grid to charge particle with electron, and a group of positive charge metal plate or tube to attract and conglomerate charged particles. This plate can then be simply washed with water to be reusable, and I'm looking to use cheap and common material like soda can.
There are several possible design for that but the challenge will be to have a small enough design to put that inside the printer enclosure and to ensure not to generate significative Ozone amount. I just ordered 20 000 V electrostatic generator from China, I have to wait for the long delivery time 🙂 Stay tune (and be patient !! 😉 )
I'm like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
I am currently printing this one: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2105113 for my work in progress enclosure (based on http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2012384 ).
I can let you know when everything is working how it performs...
Design, Print, Repeat
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
My ESP is on the way (design almost finished with several test print of it) but I'm looking for proper way to wire this without creating too much electrostatic filed outside of the filter, dealing with several kV make me cautious 🙂
This would looks like this:
And I put aside the PPD42 dust probe for now, I went back to a PMS5003 probe and will rely on a nodemcu to send the data to thingspeak, I now have a good plan but lacks a bit of free time, actual professional project doesn't let me breathe ...
I'm like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
How will you deal with VOCS using an electrostatic filter? Also make sure you screen it well or it will cook your electronics.
I am just starting to experiment with an enclosure and so far I'm going with a recirculating system using a HEPA /carbon combination. I am going 100% recirculating with a low surface velocity for the inlet and outlet so as not to create any drafts. I will see how it goes and if the temps in the enclosure get to high I will power supply outside. My current thinking is a warm environment is best for ABS and the like so I don't want to extract any air just clean it up whilst it goes around.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
Well, for now I don't deal VOCS, I just focus on particules (for now), step by step.
Regarding the shielding I'm not sur yet, I'm considering several options.
For the recirculation, that's exactly what I'm planning, with a deflector on the outlet to minimize drafts.
I'm like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
What about overheating inside with using recurcilation ? ABS maybe could be ok, but with PLA ?
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
This noxious material will be abandoned soon. New less toxic materials are coming with the same physical properties, without the noxious fumes.
Nigel
Life is keeping interested and excited by knowledge and new things.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
I k now it's your opinion, but the subject of this thread is not "should I move away from ABS" but "how to deal with ABS fumes" 🙂
I'm like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
Juan V, sorry I haven't replied sooner. I hadn't really thought about that. For now I'm more interested in ABS/ASA as I have some specific parts I want to make for various bike and motorbike projects. I will worry about over heating PLA if and when it becomes an issue.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
I noticed this thread and thought I would chime in.
I have my printer setup in a near sealed enclosure that I typically hold at 35C. The unit is setup to suck the fumes through a high grade furnace filter at the top and a hydroponics carbon filter on the side. The air is the recirculated beneath the subfloor where it is heated by a reptile heat lamp controlled by a thermostat. The hot air is then pushed into the main chamber vertically by 3 fans.
Note electronics and power supplies do not like high temp so I created an air intake that directly pushes cold air into the PCB and power supply. I will do the same with my Prusa.
Note this enclosure serves two purposes: temperature stability and fume reduction
I am very passionate about not killing myself 3D printing. Since I use ABS and rubbers I thought it prudent to have some type of filtration in place. The system works well and you would never know by the smell that I was 3D printing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
In order to qualify filter efficiency, I built a particule sensor that push the data on Thingspeak. I begin to have some measurment and made some interesting findings.
The Plantower PMS5003 sensor I use measures particules with a minimum size of 0.3 µm.
First interesting data, when I look at the at the particules size breakthrough, during ABS print, I can see that the size between 0.3 to 0.5 have the highest level, with slighly less from 0.5 to 1.0. There are almost no particules bigger that 2.5 µm.
Another interesting fact is that all ABS are not equivalent.
I tested two different brands. One from Prusa, one from a french producer (SOVB).
The PR produce a peak with a AQI value up to ~450 on the early stage of the print, then decrease to lower level.
The SOVB produce a peak with a AQI value up to ~200 on the early stage of the print, then decrease to lower level.
The good news is for any ABS brands, after some time after the print the particule level goes down to unnoticeable level, with AQI oscillating between 10 to 40.
I still have to make measurement outside of the enclosure to see is significant level of matters leak outside of the enclosure during the print, but the high level inside the small volume of the enclosure during the print will not be the same in the room volume.
I'm like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
Just checking to see if there was any further process? Thanks to all the contributors. Very good info.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
Would it not be possible to use a filter from a gasmask rated for ufps? Like the ones used by people working with asbestos removal, or perhaps a filter rated for gasses instead of particles.
There are replacment filters available for these masks and they should not be too expensive. Also you shouldn't require to much airpreassure as they usually are "lung-operated".
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
For the record regarding my electrostatic precipitator here is my work in progress:
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2367044
For now I'm quite not pleased by the result, I have to find a good shielding way to prevent eletrostatic field to interact with close electronic device.
I'm like Jon Snow, I know nothing.
Re: Filtering ABS fumes options for enclosure ?
These guys form http://box3d.eu are making a 3d printer enclosure which keeps your printing environment at a stable temperature, while extracting ABS fumes.
They have 2 versions: 1 for an air tube, to hang outside your window or connevt to central extraction system, or 1 with a hepa filter, which you can run as is on your desk.
nice detail is the Arduino controllor and they wil make it open source, so I guess controlling the printer from outside the box is a possibility.
They are now on kickstarter, where you can get an 3d printer enclosure for your prusa for 199. (169 first day early bird)
See the kickstarter project here bit.ly/box3d