Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..  

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

I am currently printing on my Dawn washed sheet with NO IPA. It is printing perfectly.

I have run through maybe half a dozen objects that I was unable to print before. No lifting now - at all.

No cleaning between prints either. I don't want to mess with what is working...

My current candidate for culprit: contaminated IPA.

This was an old bottle I use for swabbing cuts. I think skin oils from my fingers transferred to the IPA.

So this is a suggestion for those having problems: Make sure your IPA is fresh. I am going to put mine in a squirt bottle to keep my fingers away.

And take Prusa's "No Dawn" with a grain of salt. I prefer "Moderation in all things". And NO Acetone.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

and 99% IPA is much better than 91%

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: david.a66

and 99% IPA is much better than 91%

Until you add oil either strength sucks off your fingers... or dilutes off the bed.  You still end up with a film of oil that requires a lot of volume to clean properly.   And water in the 91% strength is also just water, so it really doesn't cause much problem, just takes a bit longer to evaporate. 

The issue I have with alcohol is if you use bare hands and a paper towel, it wicks onto your fingers picking up oils it then redistributes to the bed. I can reduce the effect by thoroughly washing my hands under running water just prior to cleaning the bed; but at that point I already have hot water and it's just easier to wash the bed in the running water.  

And the simple fact 3 gallon/min water flow will rinse much better than a paper towel dampened with maybe a gram of alcohol.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

I do not understand the fixation with what is bottom line an inferior product..

You can wash it/ not wash it, IPA it or not, Dawn it or not Dawn it, sacrifice the neighbors cats or not ..

Too many of the powdered sheets do not hold  properly for too many people, at least for PLA, and we should simply stop buying them .. 

That sends the strongest message .. 

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: gary.s4

[...] Too many of the powdered sheets do not hold  properly for too many people, at least for PLA, and we should simply stop buying them .. 

Well, I waited 14 months for mine, so there wasn't a lot of data at the time. The initial batches seemed to work quite well. Mine's still got one cranky side, but the other (oddly enough, the unevenly-coated one) seems to have found its purpose in life and I'm printing 10x15mm parts with no brim or skirt without issue.

I think the answer to your suggestion is that there's simply nothing quite as good once you get it working. I've used BuildTak (sandy appearance) and textured vinyl (PLA only) as alternatives and they certainly work, just not as well. Others here have reported that the Prusa surface is superior to all the others that claim to be the same. Like to many other things in the 3D printing experience, you have to work with it a bit it seems.

Until now, I've been only swapping in the textured sheet selectively, but it's getting dependable enough I may just leave it on as my primary sheet and swap it out when I need a smooth 1st layer finish or want to print nylon and other exotics.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

once cleaned most PC sheets work wonderfully, otherwise there would not be the demand for them. almost every part prusa prints is printed on a PC sheet. I tend to us more parts on a flat sheet because i want/need the flat face as part of the design of the part. I understand you've had a tough time with your PC sheet, but 2 months ago they were going for over list on Ebay because of demand. just because you had issues with yours doesn't mean others have the same issues

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: david.a66

[...] 2 months ago they were going for over list on Ebay because of demand. 

Apparently some sold for $250+. Madness. I am increasingly liking mine, but not that much.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: gary.s4

I have never had any problems on any  of my machines with the steel sheets. PLA and PETG adhere well enough .. no first layer problems. but PETG does raise a bit of havoc with wear and tear on the sheets .. actual all of my sheets are showing their age .. still adhere fine but it will soon be time to start replacing them..

Will give the cleaning a chance .. I would love an easy to remove PETG sheet that wears better than the steel .. How have they been wearing with usage?

Right now they list for 37 E vs 28 E for  the steel.. 

As I said at this point, I have no complaints about the steel .. just wish fro a little less wear from the PETG.. (but honestly have been printing with less and less of that lately) ..

Thanks  for the input ..

Gary,

I have over 50 days of printing on 2 Steel PEI sheets with some dabbling (2 days or so), with the PC sheets.  The Steel sheets with PEI hold up REALLY well if you don't touch them with bare hands and my clean up has been almost exclusively Windex for PETG and the same for PLA.  Great release.  I use the clean and flip method and rotate between 2 different sheets.  I number the sheets and the sides.  I have had no cracks, nicks, or issues with the smooth PEI sheets.

My PC sheets had originally been fantastic for both PETG and PLA but have since given me trouble.  So I put them aside for some serious production of parts for my new enclosure.  I may have to use Bobstro's clean and test method to see if I can bring back the GREAT texture and adhesion of the PC sheets.  I really miss it.

RAH

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

I am completely dumbfounded .. I believe that may be a need for some type of intervention as a cult has obviously formed that I hadn't noticed..I looked in the EShop but didn't see any any robes ?  Do Travolta or Cruise own any of these?  Should I be afraid??? 

Half the comments I have read detail initial and or ongoing problems with these sheets .. Perhaps they should come with a warning label?

CAUTION: Printing on these sheets can be hazardous to your mental state.  Usage of these sheets may have you banging your head against the wall as you try and figure out what magic is required to actually get them to hold through an entire print.

Seriously.. This is bordering on the absurd.. 

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: gary.s4

[...] Seriously.. This is bordering on the absurd.. 

Only because delving into 3D printing at the current state of the art itself is absurd. The Mk3 is among the best going, but we're at a primitive state. It's not a cult. It's the way things are. This isn't all that much different than getting started with 8 bit computers back in the 1980s. Lots of hype, lots of excitement, but you had to expect to rip the cover off now and then. 5-10 years later, they were being sold in supermarkets. Your options are to sit it out for a few more years, or dive in and figure out stuff as you go along.

Forgive us for not grabbing torches and pitchforks and joining your lynching party, but this is how things go with tech. If you're out to create a riot of anti-Prusa sentiment, I'd suggest that a Prusa support forum is not a place you're likely to find satisfaction. Do the thing, call us fanboys and leave in a hissy fit, or figure things out and move forward. I've been through several of these hype cycles and don't get too worked up about things.

As to the sheets, they do seem to improve if you follow a few suggestions. I'm not happy about it, but I've got a working solution. I've gone from mildly pissed off to increasingly impressed now that I can get 3mm cylinders to print free-standing. If you find it all interesting, dive in and join the fun. If not, feel free to sit out for a bit. Just please don't start calling the group that has tried so hard to help you names.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: bobstro

Posted by: gary.s4

[...] Seriously.. This is bordering on the absurd.. 

Only because delving into 3D printing at the current state of the art itself is absurd. The Mk3 is among the best going, but we're at a primitive state. It's not a cult. It's the way things are. This isn't all that much different than getting started with 8 bit computers back in the 1980s. Lots of hype, lots of excitement, but you had to expect to rip the cover off now and then. 5-10 years later, they were being sold in supermarkets. Your options are to sit it out for a few more years, or dive in and figure out stuff as you go along.

Forgive us for not grabbing torches and pitchforks and joining your lynching party, but this is how things go with tech. If you're out to create a riot of anti-Prusa sentiment, I'd suggest that a Prusa support forum is not a place you're likely to find satisfaction. Do the thing, call us fanboys and leave in a hissy fit, or figure things out and move forward. I've been through several of these hype cycles and don't get too worked up about things.

As to the sheets, they do seem to improve if you follow a few suggestions. I'm not happy about it, but I've got a working solution. I've gone from mildly pissed off to increasingly impressed now that I can get 3mm cylinders to print free-standing. If you find it all interesting, dive in and join the fun. If not, feel free to sit out for a bit. Just please don't start calling the group that has tried so hard to help you names.

Woo .. Relax .. I have 6 Prusas (mk2.5 THRU mK3S)  online and love em .. They are my goto machines form under 200 height .. Have been 3d printing for a long while and understand the pluses and minuses ..

My complaint has been the non-addressing what is obviously a problem .. and trying to have some fun with it .. if the posts offended you I apologize and will run right out and buy a robe!.. heh..heh ..

That said .. The powdered sheets have 

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: gary.s4

Woo .. Relax .. I have 6 Prusas (mk2.5 THRU mK3S)  online and love em .. They are my goto machines form under 200 height .. Have been 3d printing for a long while and understand the pluses and minuses ..

No worries. We've had a few instances of people starting with the cult stuff and things going downhill from there. 

My complaint has been the non-addressing what is obviously a problem .. and trying to have some fun with it .. if the posts offended you I apologize and will run right out and buy a robe!.. heh..heh ..

I think Prusa is getting into difficulties transitioning from a hobby-focused firm to a big business. Some of their moves lately have felt a bit more like CYA than their old support. I was surprised when I was told within seconds of contacting online chat that my (14 month waitlisted) powder-coated sheet was a consumable. That said, it does seem to have improved to where I can now depend on it. I'm just not sure what abuse, if any, I inflicted on it actually improved things. It seems to have improved markedly when I quit caring about the warranty.

Some of the finish does seem to come off on prints, and is especially visible on lighter filament. I did some Prusa-orange PETG prints and had to sand the nice texture off to get rid of the discoloration. The sheets are definitely not perfect, yet worlds better than what I see the poor souls using glass, blue tape or even BuildTak suffering through.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: gary.s4

I do not understand the fixation with what is bottom line an inferior product..

You can wash it/ not wash it, IPA it or not, Dawn it or not Dawn it, sacrifice the neighbors cats or not ..

Too many of the powdered sheets do not hold  properly for too many people, at least for PLA, and we should simply stop buying them .. 

That sends the strongest message .. 

Well - except for the vague definition of too many people.   You and a few others versus at least 25,000 shipped.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Add me to the list of dissatisfied powder coated sheet users.  I've spent countless hours trying to get prints to stick.  Tried washing the plate with dishwasher soap (twice), wiped down the surface with 91% IPA, adjusting z-live ridiculously low, messing with temps and extrusion rates. The only way I can reliably get PETG or PLA to stick is to add a brim to all objects or set the z-live really low - both of which are undesirable.  Meanwhile, I've never had adhesion issues like this with my knock-off FFCP printer when using either PEI, Buildtak, and whatever questionable print surface that printer came with.

I ordered a Buildtak spring plate and sheet.  Looking forward to being able to reliably print with my MK3S!  The print quality of the few objects I've printed is phenomenal.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Well I have gone from simple objects being unprintable on PC to being very happy - everything prints on PC.

And the only thing I changed was my cleaning method - and a new bottle Of IPA.

Does that make the PC an inferior product? Not by my definition. Does it have a personality? Yes.

Would I scrap my PC sheet? You would have to pay me a lot.

Does that qualify me for a robe? It is a bit chilly in here.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

I was just able to get some small PETG parts to stick without a brim or extremely low z-live setting by using the included glue stick.  It's been years since I've had to use glue on a print surface.  Oh well, this will get me by until my Buildtak gets in.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: G_Loc

Add me to the list of dissatisfied powder coated sheet users.  I've spent countless hours trying to get prints to stick.  Tried washing the plate with dishwasher soap (twice), wiped down the surface with 91% IPA, adjusting z-live ridiculously low, messing with temps and extrusion rates. The only way I can reliably get PETG or PLA to stick is to add a brim to all objects or set the z-live really low - both of which are undesirable. 

I know this sucks, but stick with it. Mine was really bad with PLA initially. After doing the treatment you described (with a splash of acetone thrown in) I printed some large PETG pieces. Not long afterwards, some full-bed PLA prints with brim seem to have completed the "seasoning" process, and I'm now able to print 15mm PLA parts without a brim or raft.

Meanwhile, I've never had adhesion issues like this with my knock-off FFCP printer when using either PEI, Buildtak, and whatever questionable print surface that printer came with.

I ordered a Buildtak spring plate and sheet.  Looking forward to being able to reliably print with my MK3S!  The print quality of the few objects I've printed is phenomenal.

Sounds like you've worked with BuildTak before, so take this with a grain of salt, but I trashed a BT sheet trying to print higher-temp PETG. I'm now using it only for PLA prints. 

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Well, I hope you're right about the "seasoning" process!  Just completed another small batch of parts with the glue stick prepped surface.  Going to clean the residue off completely later on today and try again.

As for BT, yep, I've been using it for a while now.  No issues with it, other than - as you said - it can be easily damaged and does eventually require replacement.  PETG is my material of choice and some of my parts get REALLY stuck on there.

RE: Powdered Sheet .. PLA .. Marvin goes for a walk ..

Posted by: G_Loc

[...] As for BT, yep, I've been using it for a while now.  No issues with it, other than - as you said - it can be easily damaged and does eventually require replacement.  PETG is my material of choice and some of my parts get REALLY stuck on there.

Do you use any sort of release agent (Windex, glue stick) with PETG on BuildTak? The BT is really grippy, low-maintenance stuff. Before my Prusa textured sheet got its act together, I was seriously thinking about switching to BT on a spring steel sheet until I introduced it to 3DXTech PETG at 270C. To be fair, that same filament did in my 1st PEI sticker sheet.