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What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.  

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Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Well I went to bed last night thinking I was going to have a good first print of the Castle, but seems like I still need to do some tuning. Two things I need to research. One is layer shifting, but I may have other issues contributing to that.

The second is the belt residue showing up on my "Y axis" smooth bars. I've got an alignment problem on the belt to fix.

One more addition. While grabbing the shipping box that my replacement parts came in from PRUSA this fell out when I moved it. I didn't see it a few days ago when I received the package.
I've looked on my order and I didn't order this, what is it and what is it used for?

Posted : 08/04/2018 5:34 pm
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Ok, forget about the last question. I just looked it up and found it to be a nozzle cleaning needle. DIDN'T KNOW....

Posted : 08/04/2018 5:38 pm
darKing
(@darking)
Trusted Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

The Castle:

How many prints have you done with this printer?
Can you take look at your Printer Menu -> Support -> FailStats -> All?

Looks like a crash or a temp. nozzle Jam to me.

The belt:

Is the belt rubbing somewhere? You're sure it'f from the belt?

3rd... you already found out.

Posted : 08/04/2018 5:43 pm
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.


The Castle:

How many prints have you done with this printer?
Can you take look at your Printer Menu -> Support -> FailStats -> All?

Looks like a crash or a temp. nozzle Jam to me.

The belt:

Is the belt rubbing somewhere? You're sure it'f from the belt?

3rd... you already found out.

1. The castle is my seventh print.
2. FailStats is in the main list so that's why Ididn't see it under Support. Shows no failures.
3. Belt rubbing. I've read how a misalignment of the belt could cause this, but I'm also thinking I"m having a problem with the bearings.
On the right side pulley the belt rides against the front wall and is centered on the left side where the motor is.

Posted : 08/04/2018 6:27 pm
darKing
(@darking)
Trusted Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.


3. Belt rubbing. I've read how a misalignment of the belt could cause this, but I'm also thinking I"m having a problem with the bearings.
On the right side pulley the belt rides against the front wall and is centered on the left side where the motor is.

Right side = where the motor is NOT? I don't think there's a way the misalign the bearing? ❓

Maybe something went wrong here? -> http://manual.prusa3d.com/Guide/4.+Z-axis+assembly/509?lang=en#s9978

Are both sides rubbing againg the Idler, or just top / bottom side of the belt?

Posted : 08/04/2018 6:58 pm
JuanCholo
(@juancholo)
Reputable Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

if you made the gcode for the castle yourself, double check the model and the sliced version in your slicer preview look at the areas that failed and check for missing layers. zoom in and check the preview.

i had a situation with a damaged model causing skipped layers. just rule that out as a possible issue.

“One does not simply use a picture as signature on Prusa forums”

Posted : 08/04/2018 7:07 pm
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.


if you made the gcode for the castle yourself, double check the model and the sliced version in your slicer preview look at the areas that failed and check for missing layers. zoom in and check the preview.

i had a situation with a damaged model causing skipped layers. just rule that out as a possible issue.

The castle was the one on the SSD that came with the printer. I can see if the model can be downloaded somewhere else.

Posted : 09/04/2018 12:23 am
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.



Are both sides rubbing againg the Idler, or just top / bottom side of the belt?

The right side has the belt touching the forward side of the roller bearing. It might be just touching and not pressing heavily. Just wanted to include all information.
Now that I look at this picture close up, if it was rubbing bad here there would be more residue. So where would the belt be affected?

From the left side the belt is closer to the back edge, on the right side it is the front roller wall.

All settings are default that came with it. I'm still reviewing posts to see what to modify for myself. I do remember some setting affect layer shifting and it's said they should be turned off until they are fixed. I think one was LA...
The following are setting I think are pertinent.

Fil Sen off
fan check on
mode normal
Crash det on
Best status X = 270, Y = 285

Posted : 09/04/2018 12:51 am
sean.r7
(@sean-r7)
Trusted Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

I printed this castle using some old green hatchbox filament that I had lying around as scrap and it has to be one of the best prints that I have ever seen come off of a printer that I own. This mk3 is my 3rd. The first 2 were clones of Prusa designs and couldn't come close to what this thing is putting out.

It looks like an extrusion problem imo... but then you can see the layer lines and I don't know what to make of that.

Posted : 09/04/2018 12:57 am
darKing
(@darking)
Trusted Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Ah that's what you mean... well all my belts are aginst the wall of the pulley. I don't think that's a problem unless they are really at an angle. Make sure it does not rub against any plastic part.

The only Layer Shfting problem I'm aware of - as of now - is crash detection. On some users it detects crashes where are none. Why do you have the Filament sensor off? Any particular reason?

Your Y-Belt is pretty loose with 285. The Manual says "240 +-40 is ok" so you're slightly off of what is considered "ok".

Mine is 262 now. You may want to tighten the Y-Belt just a little. However, I don't think that's the root cause of the funny castle.

BTW in the end it could be just dirt / grease. Take a look here https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/prusa-i3-kit-building-calibrating-first-print-main-f6/mk3-y-axis-left-rod-showing-black-grease-buildup-s-t15403.html#p75645

Posted : 09/04/2018 1:03 am
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.


I printed this castle using some old green hatchbox filament that I had lying around as scrap and it has to be one of the best prints that I have ever seen come off of a printer that I own. This mk3 is my 3rd. The first 2 were clones of Prusa designs and couldn't come close to what this thing is putting out.

It looks like an extrusion problem imo... but then you can see the layer lines and I don't know what to make of that.

Sean, good points. I just remembered someone having a problem with some filament that came with their MK3. There could be a bad batch and I posted that one of my first prints had over extrusion problems, but it turned out to be the color was shading in those areas.
Not layer lines, but different shades of the silver or is it grey... I've just restarted the castle using Hatchbox Gold to rule out the filament. Only change I've made is the filament says to use a temp of 210 and the default PLA is 215.

Posted : 09/04/2018 1:59 am
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.



The only Layer Shfting problem I'm aware of - as of now - is crash detection. On some users it detects crashes where are none. Why do you have the Filament sensor off? Any particular reason?

These are default settings from PRUSA. I want to rule out the filament first so I'm not going to make any changes. I need to go in and see what is recommended until they fix the issues like crash detection.
They talked about turning the filament sensor off because in some filaments it would shine or something to give a false detection.

Posted : 09/04/2018 2:24 am
sean.r7
(@sean-r7)
Trusted Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Just an FYI I let the Prusa run at higher temps even with the hatch box filament. hasn't been a problem to date.

I printed the Triceratops skull off the card last night and it looked veyy nice. Right now I am printing the cab from the Open Train Project in white and I have the extrusion multiplier turned down to 90% so far it looks fine but I want be able to judge the layers until it is completed and I can lift it off of the build plate.

How did your re print go?

If you have those gaps in your print again I would consider taking the entire extruder apart and rebuild the thing.

Posted : 09/04/2018 2:36 pm
sean.r7
(@sean-r7)
Trusted Member
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Oh I had a printer do something very similar to this as well and it turned out to be a partially blocked nozzle. If you have a spare nozzle try replacing it.

I tried cleaning my nozzle and whatever was in there would not clear. Prints would print for many layers and then suddenly gap! It drove me nuts. I thought the filament was getting stuck or that the direct drive was to weak to pull it. Replaced the nozzle on a hunch and that printer has been working like a champ.

Bought a pack of 10 brass nozzles. They are cheap and not worth fighting with if they get gunked up.

Posted : 09/04/2018 2:42 pm
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

My Post from this morning didn't make it up as a reply? I wonder what happened and if the updated board layout had something to do with it. I'll repost the pictures.

With suspicions of a bad batch of fiber from PRUSA I ran a second print of the castle using Hatchbox filament. Sure enough this morning I came out with a good print. I'll post pictures later.
I had seen posted several weeks ago that someone was having problems with the filament from PRUSA. The silver roll I received I didn't consider the topic until I remembered discoloration of a print.
There were about 3-5 different shades of silver/grey that I first thought it was layer shifting, but the part was solid and smooth. This and Sean's comments made me think I have a bad batch of filament.

Posted : 09/04/2018 4:26 pm
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Ok, so here's the print with a different filament, same settings.

With this test done I'm guessing everything else is good for now. It's odd how filament failed and with nothing else to base it off of it looks like a printer error.

Notice the horizontal color shading. This is all the same PRUSA filament. Need to look at what causing filament failure.

Posted : 10/04/2018 3:27 am
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.


Your Y-Belt is pretty loose with 285. The Manual says "240 +-40 is ok" so you're slightly off of what is considered "ok".

Mine is 262 now. You may want to tighten the Y-Belt just a little. However, I don't think that's the root cause of the funny castle.

Finally had time to adjust this. I like the idea of the tighteners, I needed three hands to tighten the Y-belt with my granddaughter's help.
New settings after a self test are X=269 and Y=251

Posted : 14/04/2018 4:45 am
Dewey79
(@dewey79)
Honorable Member
Topic starter answered:
Re: What Happened at the End! Two Problems to Solve.

Tightening the X-axis belt helped a lot, several issues went away. There are still a few issues to fix with the print. I'm seeing blemishes and wisps show in black and the string separation on the horizontal circles in red.

What causes these?

Posted : 16/04/2018 12:51 am
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