Tired and indignant  

Re: Tired and indignant

Afternoon,

Just read the whole thread, not show how I've missed it!!

has anyone had any luck sorting those horrible sides out?

Has anyone considered things wrong with the nozzles? I've noticed mine seems a long way out from how id normally build a E3D hotend.

I have some smaller/bigger nozzles to try soon. also has anyone noticed the E step value for the extruder in the firmware its a massive value. I think the problem is with the extrusion not being consistent.

I've raised an issue on GITHUB about the pictures below I was convinced it was a Slic3r issue but not sure now. Maybe we should all raise issues on there to really highlight this problem i'm sure its all connected to the same problem.

Re: Tired and indignant

Afternoon,

Just read the whole thread, not show how I've missed it!!

has anyone had any luck sorting those horrible sides out?

Has anyone considered things wrong with the nozzles? I've noticed mine seems a long way out from how id normally build a E3D hotend.

I have some smaller/bigger nozzles to try soon. also has anyone noticed the E step value for the extruder in the firmware its a massive value. I think the problem is with the extrusion not being consistent.

I've raised an issue on GITHUB about the pictures below I was convinced it was a Slic3r issue but not sure now. Maybe we should all raise issues on there to really highlight this problem i'm sure its all connected to the same problem.

No. After talking to the support yersterday, I now downgraded the firmware to 3.1.1. Looks still the same. 🙁

Re: Tired and indignant

I'm not sure on this but i'm willing to give it try. more reading to do and questions to answer maybe someone can help...

So saying I wanted to sacrifice it being a quiet printer and disable all the things that make it quiet, as a test to see if any of those factors are causing these issues.

in the firmware there is three lots e step values, not sure why but on each the extruder is different valve, I know only one is used by why 3? maybe because they couldn't get it quite right?

// Steps per unit {X,Y,Z,E}
//#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {100,100,3200/8,140}
#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {100,100,3200/8,280}
//#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT {100,100,3200/8,560}

Would it be a good test to disable the interpolation of the steppers for 256, I'm not even sure what would happen, does anyone know?

I see the extruder is set to 32 step mode is it really need or is it because its a 0.9 degree stepper?

#define TMC2130_USTEPS_XY 16 // microstep resolution for XY axes
#define TMC2130_USTEPS_Z 16 // microstep resolution for Z axis
#define TMC2130_USTEPS_E 32 // microstep resolution for E axis

As you can tell I'm only guessing here, don't really know the answers to most of my questions. I just want it sorted regardless.

All I'm thinking is the main difference between a MK2 and MK3 (besides the bells and whistles) is the stepper drivers!!

Help us out PRUSA please...

Re: Tired and indignant

What's the layer height for the objects in the picture above?

Re: Tired and indignant

What's the layer height for the objects in the picture above?

The pictures I posted are 0.2

Re: Tired and indignant

Sorry to ask but what exactly are you trying to fix there? Layer look pretty consistent and due to the low resolution (0.2) absolutely ok for this model to me.

Re: Tired and indignant

Sorry to ask but what exactly are you trying to fix there? Layer look pretty consistent and due to the low resolution (0.2) absolutely ok for this model to me.

To be fair it’s not that bad, but there is definitely problems there that I don’t get with my cheap home made printer, I expect at least the quality of a mk2 and it’s not. I’m more concerned with the insistent layers in straight edges like everyone on this thread and on other threads.

Re: Tired and indignant

I’m more concerned with the inconsistent layers in straight edges like everyone on this thread and on other threads.

FTFY

Also, this. The inconsistent extrusion is driving me nuts. I printed a 1 perimeter empty cube and examined it. It definitely looks like the extruder isn't consistent with how much plastic it's spitting, as bulges on the outside were also on the inside. This is indicative of an extrusion problem instead of a movement issue.

Re: Tired and indignant

I’m more concerned with the inconsistent layers in straight edges like everyone on this thread and on other threads.

FTFY

Also, this. The inconsistent extrusion is driving me nuts. I printed a 1 perimeter empty cube and examined it. It definitely looks like the extruder isn't consistent with how much plastic it's spitting, as bulges on the outside were also on the inside. This is indicative of an extrusion problem instead of a movement issue.

I agree I’m wondering how easy it would be to get my Titan aero installed on it....

Re: Tired and indignant

it isn't consistent which is one of the big complaints there is still a bad bug in the firmware. the extruder motor is not timed correctly which is causing the internal pressure of the extruder to have inconsistent build up of material. so your layers are narrow and thick and appear to have a diagonal pattern when looked from the side, if you shine a light from the top down you see all the bulges of material.

this is part of the same issue with under extrusion with layers under .2 the last firmware kind of bandaid fixed it in that they added more timing steps as the layer height decreases so at least you could get something out at like .1 layer height but it is still wrong.

there is no setting in material that is going to help it as it is a mechanical issue caused by the firmware.

also i will add supposedly part of the problem was that LA was disabled. maybe they compensated for LA figuring the timing would be different in the needed pressure of the extruder but there should then be a branch in the firmware for 2 separate timings of the filament loader

Re: Tired and indignant

it isn't consistent which is one of the big complaints there is still a bad bug in the firmware. the extruder motor is not timed correctly which is causing the internal pressure of the extruder to have inconsistent build up of material. so your layers are narrow and thick and appear to have a diagonal pattern when looked from the side, if you shine a light from the top down you see all the bulges of material.

this is part of the same issue with under extrusion with layers under .2 the last firmware kind of bandaid fixed it in that they added more timing steps as the layer height decreases so at least you could get something out at like .1 layer height but it is still wrong.

there is no setting in material that is going to help it as it is a mechanical issue caused by the firmware.

also i will add supposedly part of the problem was that LA was disabled. maybe they compensated for LA figuring the timing would be different in the needed pressure of the extruder but there should then be a branch in the firmware for 2 separate timings of the filament loader

So what’s the fix for this problem? Sounds like it not going to be a simple one. Sounds like it just needs to be a simple stepper driver on the extruder as they seem to work flawlessly compared to what we have on the einsy board

Re: Tired and indignant

it isn't consistent which is one of the big complaints there is still a bad bug in the firmware. the extruder motor is not timed correctly which is causing the internal pressure of the extruder to have inconsistent build up of material. so your layers are narrow and thick and appear to have a diagonal pattern when looked from the side, if you shine a light from the top down you see all the bulges of material.

this is part of the same issue with under extrusion with layers under .2 the last firmware kind of bandaid fixed it in that they added more timing steps as the layer height decreases so at least you could get something out at like .1 layer height but it is still wrong.

there is no setting in material that is going to help it as it is a mechanical issue caused by the firmware.

also i will add supposedly part of the problem was that LA was disabled. maybe they compensated for LA figuring the timing would be different in the needed pressure of the extruder but there should then be a branch in the firmware for 2 separate timings of the filament loader

So what’s the fix for this problem? Sounds like it not going to be a simple one. Sounds like it just needs to be a simple stepper driver on the extruder as they seem to work flawlessly compared to what we have on the einsy board

Like these pictures?

Re: Tired and indignant

tighten the idler bearings so it can spin freely but doesn't wiggle

Re: Tired and indignant

tighten the idler bearings so it can spin freely but doesn't wiggle

Anybody got a picture of this?, I didn't build my printer so idk what that is.

Re: Tired and indignant

Like these pictures?

Are you going to tell us how you achieved those results?

Re: Tired and indignant

tighten the idler bearings so it can spin freely but doesn't wiggle

Anybody got a picture of this?, I didn't build my printer so idk what that is.

I'll believe this when I see a pic of it doing anything. So many problem "fixes" floating around by people who haven't even attempted to fix the issue. If this did help Edith, please show us some examples of a single wall cube you fixed with this method.

it isn't consistent which is one of the big complaints there is still a bad bug in the firmware. the extruder motor is not timed correctly which is causing the internal pressure of the extruder to have inconsistent build up of material. so your layers are narrow and thick and appear to have a diagonal pattern when looked from the side, if you shine a light from the top down you see all the bulges of material.

this is part of the same issue with under extrusion with layers under .2 the last firmware kind of bandaid fixed it in that they added more timing steps as the layer height decreases so at least you could get something out at like .1 layer height but it is still wrong.

there is no setting in material that is going to help it as it is a mechanical issue caused by the firmware.

also i will add supposedly part of the problem was that LA was disabled. maybe they compensated for LA figuring the timing would be different in the needed pressure of the extruder but there should then be a branch in the firmware for 2 separate timings of the filament loader

So what’s the fix for this problem? Sounds like it not going to be a simple one. Sounds like it just needs to be a simple stepper driver on the extruder as they seem to work flawlessly compared to what we have on the einsy board

There is code (since like, 3.1.0 or so) XPila was messing with in the Github repo for stepper linearity correction. Literally like 45 minutes ago, it looks like he added some commits related to it. Relevant lines are here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/blob/MK3/Firmware/Configuration_prusa.h#L169

I am probably oversimplifying this or straight up off, but the tmc2130s (Trinamic stepper drivers) convert microsteps up to 256. Meaning you can send it an 8 microstep pulse, and it will look at the pulse distance and up it to 256 steps with a nice wave pattern. This is why the trinamic drivers are so quiet. Instead of getting harsh steps, the steppers get many fine ones that are better shaped. Unfortunately this can also add some complications around figuring out the perfect timing to send to the stepper to achieve a strong step throughout your microstep range. I assume normal drivers have this issue as well, but it seems the Trinamics add complexity to this. 🙂

Will compile these changes in when I get home and post results.

Re: Tired and indignant

tighten the idler bearings so it can spin freely but doesn't wiggle

Anybody got a picture of this?, I didn't build my printer so idk what that is.

I'll believe this when I see a pic of it doing anything. So many problem "fixes" floating around by people who haven't even attempted to fix the issue. If this did help Edith, please show us some examples of a single wall cube you fixed with this method.

it isn't consistent which is one of the big complaints there is still a bad bug in the firmware. the extruder motor is not timed correctly which is causing the internal pressure of the extruder to have inconsistent build up of material. so your layers are narrow and thick and appear to have a diagonal pattern when looked from the side, if you shine a light from the top down you see all the bulges of material.

this is part of the same issue with under extrusion with layers under .2 the last firmware kind of bandaid fixed it in that they added more timing steps as the layer height decreases so at least you could get something out at like .1 layer height but it is still wrong.

there is no setting in material that is going to help it as it is a mechanical issue caused by the firmware.

also i will add supposedly part of the problem was that LA was disabled. maybe they compensated for LA figuring the timing would be different in the needed pressure of the extruder but there should then be a branch in the firmware for 2 separate timings of the filament loader

So what’s the fix for this problem? Sounds like it not going to be a simple one. Sounds like it just needs to be a simple stepper driver on the extruder as they seem to work flawlessly compared to what we have on the einsy board

There is code (since like, 3.1.0 or so) XPila was messing with in the Github repo for stepper linearity correction. Literally like 45 minutes ago, it looks like he added some commits related to it. Relevant lines are here: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/blob/MK3/Firmware/Configuration_prusa.h#L169

I am probably oversimplifying this or straight up off, but the tmc2130s (Trinamic stepper drivers) convert microsteps up to 256. Meaning you can send it an 8 microstep pulse, and it will look at the pulse distance and up it to 256 steps with a nice wave pattern. This is why the trinamic drivers are so quiet. Instead of getting harsh steps, the steppers get many fine ones that are better shaped. Unfortunately this can also add some complications around figuring out the perfect timing to send to the stepper to achieve a strong step throughout your microstep range. I assume normal drivers have this issue as well, but it seems the Trinamics add complexity to this. 🙂

Will compile these changes in when I get home and post results.

Something I’ve noticed between 3.1.3 and the 3.2 alpha is the estep value for extruder is different and the microstep is now at 32 changed from 64. Thanks for the information also, it was pretty much what I’d worked out from reading online. I’ve been in contact with support today, I have a list of things to try and get back to them, I will go through all there steps and see if anything changes but it’s all basic stuff like belts and temperatures etc

Re: Tired and indignant

Like these pictures?

Are you going to tell us how you achieved those results?


I’m not to sure what you mean, I didn’t make the prints so crap it’s was the mk3 that did that lol

Re: Tired and indignant

Something I’ve noticed between 3.1.3 and the 3.2 alpha is the estep value for extruder is different and the microstep is now at 32 changed from 64

It's my understanding that it shouldn't make a difference to the stepper, as either would get upscaled to 256 steps by the tmc2130 before getting there. I think it would make a difference to the software though if 32 steps wasn't granular enough (i.e., it needed to stop somewhere inbetween). Considering how small 32 microsteps still is, I am betting Prusa decided to lower that down, save some compute, and let the tmc2130 bump it up to 256 like usual.

Re: Tired and indignant

Do you think its the stepper bumping it up to 256 that's causing the problems? I was thinking about trying it with interpolation disabled on the E axis only.

reading online it does say it shouldn't cause any problems but id try anything to get it sorted right now.