Tired and indignant  

Re: Tired and indignant

Now I can not return it and I have lowered the quality of my impressions. What I can do?

I'm assuming that print has already been through the standard troubleshooting recommendations:

-100 mms or lower print speed
-50% perimeter speed or similar
-1000 mms2 acceleration or similar
-10 jerk or lower (I use 8)

The lines do suggest backlash somewhere, and the ringing suggests its very fast. lot easier to troubleshoot that with a cube or something like a temp tower.

Of course I have already tried to work with ridiculous speeds and accelerations and the result is even worse

If you think that printing at 100 mms is a ridiculous compromise then I hate to say you're going to be disappointed everywhere. There's nothing we can say here that you haven't already tried and clearly you've talked to support at length and done your due diligence with troubleshooting. I'd suggest you take this further up the chain with them.

Re: Tired and indignant

http://manual.slic3r.org/troubleshooting/dimension-errors

Per the link above, scroll down a bit until you start getting to the layer side shots. Can you print some one perimeter cubes with no top/infill, and check to see if the layers are wobbling back and forth per the top image, or if they are getting fatter/narrower per the bottom image? This will let us know if this is a wobble issue vs a flow issue.

Really hoping this is an irregular flow issue. If it is, my upcoming 40:1 modification should fix it nicely lol.

I just performed the test

Re: Tired and indignant

I'm assuming that print has already been through the standard troubleshooting recommendations:

-100 mms or lower print speed
-50% perimeter speed or similar
-1000 mms2 acceleration or similar
-10 jerk or lower (I use 8)

The lines do suggest backlash somewhere, and the ringing suggests its very fast. lot easier to troubleshoot that with a cube or something like a temp tower.

Of course I have already tried to work with ridiculous speeds and accelerations and the result is even worse

If you think that printing at 100 mms is a ridiculous compromise then I hate to say you're going to be disappointed everywhere. There's nothing we can say here that you haven't already tried and clearly you've talked to support at length and done your due diligence with troubleshooting. I'd suggest you take this further up the chain with them.

What does it mean to bring the subject up? I do not know where else to go

Re: Tired and indignant

I have done all the checks as you can see in the previous photos with many tests and others that went to the trash. The only thing I have not tried is to disable all those functions. Now I am printing a cube again.
Thanks for the support, help and time

Try sharing gcodes. I don't have my MK3 yet, but someone here should be willing to print your sliced XYZ calibration cube (stock 0.20 prusa profile for the MK3), or you can print a gcode from a fellow MK3 owner here.

This way you can rule out hardware errors or software errors. Always good to countercheck with someone else.

From the looks of your pictures, i'd say it's a hardware cause.

The layer lines can have to following causes:
- belts rubbing against the plastic parts or the pullies of the printer.
- inconsistent filament diameter. Usually Silver is the color which masks most faults of the layer lines (shadows from layer lines), but try bright orange or red for example. Please don't use white filament, or you'll go crazy (white filament is horrible to print with, requires absolutely perfect tuned machines)
- issues like slip stick effect, which cheap bearings can have. (like the ones Prusa uses)
- wrong setting on the filament spring tensioner
- grub screws loose

and so on.
Basically everything that has to do with movement.

I recommend a full teardown of the machine (leave the frame and the motors) then reassemble and take your time checking everything that can move on the printer, like is the bed pr the x carriage showing slip stick effect, are the belt rubbing on the idlers, are all grub screws tight, etc.

Good luck.

Re: Tired and indignant

I have done all the checks as you can see in the previous photos with many tests and others that went to the trash. The only thing I have not tried is to disable all those functions. Now I am printing a cube again.
Thanks for the support, help and time

Try sharing gcodes. I don't have my MK3 yet, but someone here should be willing to print your sliced XYZ calibration cube (stock 0.20 prusa profile for the MK3), or you can print a gcode from a fellow MK3 owner here.

This way you can rule out hardware errors or software errors. Always good to countercheck with someone else.

From the looks of your pictures, i'd say it's a hardware cause.

The layer lines can have to following causes:
- belts rubbing against the plastic parts or the pullies of the printer.
- inconsistent filament diameter. Usually Silver is the color which masks most faults of the layer lines (shadows from layer lines), but try bright orange or red for example. Please don't use white filament, or you'll go crazy (white filament is horrible to print with, requires absolutely perfect tuned machines)
- issues like slip stick effect, which cheap bearings can have. (like the ones Prusa uses)
- wrong setting on the filament spring tensioner
- grub screws loose

and so on.
Basically everything that has to do with movement.

I recommend a full teardown of the machine (leave the frame and the motors) then reassemble and take your time checking everything that can move on the printer, like is the bed pr the x carriage showing slip stick effect, are the belt rubbing on the idlers, are all grub screws tight, etc.

Good luck.

Thank you for helping. I have tried with prusacontrol, slic3r and simplify. In certain geometries, it behaves better than in others. When I contacted the technical service, they told me to check all the screws and check the belts, and I checked everything, I tightened and relaxed the belts, I checked if something rubs, I put other filaments, in some it is more difficult to appreciate this inconsistency in the extrusion. I can only think that it has to do with the extrusion engine, the bondtech (by the way, it is rusted) or the firmware is not correct

Edit: The machine I have not disassembled again the truth, I made all the possible checks, but I have not dismantled or printed the new parts

Re: Tired and indignant

Time permitting I would be willing to print someones pre-sliced calibration cube on my MK3.

Re: Tired and indignant

http://manual.slic3r.org/troubleshooting/dimension-errors

Per the link above, scroll down a bit until you start getting to the layer side shots. Can you print some one perimeter cubes with no top/infill, and check to see if the layers are wobbling back and forth per the top image, or if they are getting fatter/narrower per the bottom image? This will let us know if this is a wobble issue vs a flow issue.

Really hoping this is an irregular flow issue. If it is, my upcoming 40:1 modification should fix it nicely lol.

I just performed the test

Find a particular layer that is sticking out on the outside of that print, and find the same layer on the inside. If that inside layer is sticking out too, it's a flow problem. If it's tucked in, it's a nozzle not being in the correct place issue.

Re: Tired and indignant

Thank you for helping. I have tried with prusacontrol, slic3r and simplify. In certain geometries, it behaves better than in others. When I contacted the technical service, they told me to check all the screws and check the belts, and I checked everything, I tightened and relaxed the belts, I checked if something rubs, I put other filaments, in some it is more difficult to appreciate this inconsistency in the extrusion. I can only think that it has to do with the extrusion engine, the bondtech (by the way, it is rusted) or the firmware is not correct

Edit: The machine I have not disassembled again the truth, I made all the possible checks, but I have not dismantled or printed the new parts

I do not trust the MK3 extruder. It has several design flaws (melting shroud, grinding+rusting bondtech, pinda problems, laser sensor burnouts, no 3:1 geared motor so not really possible to print in 0.05 heights, etc)

But some users print fine with it, but this is just for now. Those who print well with it now will have many problems down the road, like the problems mentioned above. There needs to be a redesign and maybe reevaluation of the thing)

I went with the E3D Titan and S+E's Titan mount on the MK2, and will do so on the MK3 again.

https://shop.prusa3d.com/forum/improvements-f14/e3d-titan-on-the-mk2-t3216-s10.html

This thing prints absolutely perfect, save for the ringing that shows itself on straight walls that comes from the flimsy Prusa base.

And i'm currently fixing this on my self build MK3s (have not all parts yet), with 3030 Aluminium extrusions.

My point is, the MK2 was a ok-ish to good printer, not an excellent one. It has many problems that start with the flimsy base.

The Mk3 has an ok base, but every feature on the thing is rushed, and only half works. And Prusas Team is currently overloaded with fixing bugs since Tom's catastrophic review on Christmas '17. (look at ThomasSanladerer live build on youtube)

Re: Tired and indignant

I'm also disappointed with the Mk3, but also with team... When you contact them they reply like throw sand to our eyes, they know the problems with parts and firmware still they send us to check every single stuff that will not help to fix our problem...

Re: Tired and indignant

my i3 plus prints better than those test prints my mk3 wants to knock my i3 out off the park

Re: Tired and indignant

Time permitting I would be willing to print someones pre-sliced calibration cube on my MK3.

Thank you very much for your help. that his machine prints well that cube, it will only indicate to me that some machines work of correct form, but it will not tell me where the others fail

Re: Tired and indignant

http://manual.slic3r.org/troubleshooting/dimension-errors

Per the link above, scroll down a bit until you start getting to the layer side shots. Can you print some one perimeter cubes with no top/infill, and check to see if the layers are wobbling back and forth per the top image, or if they are getting fatter/narrower per the bottom image? This will let us know if this is a wobble issue vs a flow issue.

Really hoping this is an irregular flow issue. If it is, my upcoming 40:1 modification should fix it nicely lol.

I just performed the test

It is difficult to find since they are 0.15 layers but it will give me important information. I'll check it as soon as I can
Find a particular layer that is sticking out on the outside of that print, and find the same layer on the inside. If that inside layer is sticking out too, it's a flow problem. If it's tucked in, it's a nozzle not being in the correct place issue.

Re: Tired and indignant

Here's a suggestion that worked for me
Go to the #SLabPrint website. They sell printed plane gcode specifically tuned to the MK3.
Download one of their thin wall test files - free from the website. Then follow their suggestions to get
the print to come out perfect. I've found that thin wall printing really points out the faults that may
exist in your machine and that may be masked in regular 3D prints.

Hope this helps you out, I had a gummy bear of a time getting mine to dial in - finally had to use a magnifying glass and watch the
filament being laid down during the live z calibration. I found out I was way to high till I could see the filament flatten out as it shows
in the book.

Re: Tired and indignant

Here's a suggestion that worked for me
Go to the #SLabPrint website. They sell printed plane gcode specifically tuned to the MK3.
Download one of their thin wall test files - free from the website. Then follow their suggestions to get
the print to come out perfect. I've found that thin wall printing really points out the faults that may
exist in your machine and that may be masked in regular 3D prints.

Hope this helps you out, I had a gummy bear of a time getting mine to dial in - finally had to use a magnifying glass and watch the
filament being laid down during the live z calibration. I found out I was way to high till I could see the filament flatten out as it shows
in the book.

Can you provide a link for the "#SLabPrint" website? Google could not help me find it.

Re: Tired and indignant

Hey everyone,

Printed a single wall cube in some translucent gold PLA that is pretty shiny. Seeing something scary as hell and interesting, very horizontal moire. Horizontal enough I assumed it was X/Y moving from loose Z rods, but it's definitely moire. I just uploaded these, so hopefully the HD 60fps video option is available (if not check back, it's still processing):

In the following videos, look for a very horizontal moire climbing from left to right, flashlight assist because with a still shot you just can't see it:

X Axis Moire:
Y Axis Moire:
Reflection from ambient lights:

You guys see it? No? Let me drive it home for you then. I cut the X axis side out of the cube, then cut that in half vertically. Here's how it reflects when placed in its original orientation, notice the white reflection maintains the same path across both pieces:

Now on this video, I have flipped the right piece over horizontally. Notice how the reflection now travels upwards and downwards, depending on the side:

So awhile back, this pull request went in: https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/pull/475 - is it possible they didn't come up with the correct values? Is it possible this is a result of mesh bed leveling? Discuss!

Re: Tired and indignant

I'd suggest you take this further up the chain with them.

What does it mean to bring the subject up? I do not know where else to go

Are you saying support just refuses to help more than they already have? That's a completely different discussion than the current "print THIS cube instead!"-fest going on. You've clearly done everything being talked about in this thread already with support and if you can't print a cube then something else is going on.

this is not some obscure slicer setting, this isn't a tinfoil-hat bed level conspiracy, something is very wrong that is NOT wrong with thousands of other mk3s.

Re: Tired and indignant

3DLabPrint
https://3dlabprint.com/

Re: Tired and indignant

I'd suggest you take this further up the chain with them.

What does it mean to bring the subject up? I do not know where else to go

Are you saying support just refuses to help more than they already have? That's a completely different discussion than the current "print THIS cube instead!"-fest going on. You've clearly done everything being talked about in this thread already with support and if you can't print a cube then something else is going on.

this is not some obscure slicer setting, this isn't a tinfoil-hat bed level conspiracy, something is very wrong that is NOT wrong with thousands of other mk3s.

or they don't even know it... there are plenty of noobs posting "got my printer dialed in good" on reddit and showing prints that are utter shit from their new mk3s. they don't have anything to compare it to.

Re: Tired and indignant

that's it there are thousands of new printer people bought the mk3 and do not have a clue what is a good print and what is bad I fortunately know 😆

Re: Tired and indignant

I'd suggest you take this further up the chain with them.

What does it mean to bring the subject up? I do not know where else to go

Are you saying support just refuses to help more than they already have? That's a completely different discussion than the current "print THIS cube instead!"-fest going on. You've clearly done everything being talked about in this thread already with support and if you can't print a cube then something else is going on.

this is not some obscure slicer setting, this isn't a tinfoil-hat bed level conspiracy, something is very wrong that is NOT wrong with thousands of other mk3s.

The problem is that many impressions that I have seen are garbage and people take them for good because of their lack of experience or requirement. I know what is a good impression and the mk3 is not up to my expectations or the price I paid for it