Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?  

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

Posted by: @zbigniew-trzepizur

Amusing as this thread is, I find it a great study of several sociological phenomena 😊 Almost a textbook example to learn about forming of conspiracy theories, confirmation bias, etc. from. Complete with the guy angrily dismissing any and all proofs that there, in fact, isn't any "602Gate", throwing his toys out of the pram and leaving. Fascinating.

Someone remind me please how we do our secret handshake here... So glad to be around here despite my print layers being so f-ed-up and wobbly. 

3d printing can indeed be frustrating.  3d printers are a maturing technology but they are developed to the point that they can and do produce consistently good prints.

3d printing, as with any art or craft, requires a certain amount of skill, and in particular a high degree of patience, along with electromechanical aptitude, basic troubleshooting skills, and critical thinking skills.

I would go as far as to suggest that before anyone invests in a 3d printer, he or she should at least take an introductory course in the subject, at a local community college or makerspace, and/or hang around with someone who can 'apprentice' them and get a good feel for what the printers can and cannot do and what to expect and what not to expect from the process.

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

That is a pretty good assessment.  

Posted by: @zbigniew-trzepizur

Amusing as this thread is, I find it a great study of several sociological phenomena 😊 Almost a textbook example to learn about forming of conspiracy theories, confirmation bias, etc. from. Complete with the guy angrily dismissing any and all proofs that there, in fact, isn't any "602Gate", throwing his toys out of the pram and leaving. Fascinating.

Someone remind me please how we do our secret handshake here... So glad to be around here despite my print layers being so f-ed-up and wobbly. 

RE:

Courses don't exist in rural settings (Population here 8,000) .. but you are right.. it really helps to find someone local with 3D printer experience.. but it isn't always possible. Look on the southern tip of Nova Scotia to see the only registered Prusa user.. I'm the only one I know with a 3D printer.. so sometimes you only have the Internet as a resource. Was a similar venture when I bought my first espresso machine.  I'm sorta ticked at Prusa for making their introductory course on their virtual campus a paid option for the MK3+ kit builders.. but free for those that bought it assembled.. Truly baffles me and it is a very conscious decision.. Yet, seems to go against the cornerstone of what Prusa espouses.. However, a small inconsistency. In general, there is very much great info in the Prusa online support knowledgeable. You want your users to have as much info as possible so they can have the best experience.

Posted by: @jsw

I would go as far as to suggest that before anyone invests in a 3d printer, he or she should at least take an introductory course in the subject, at a local community college or makerspace, and/or hang around with someone who can 'apprentice' them and get a good feel for what the printers can and cannot do and what to expect and what not to expect from the process.

RE:

Just to preface this, I am a relative noob who is just trying to understand the things that I read about, and I am overall happy with the prints produced by both my Prusa and my Bear (which is basically a modified Prusa).  I don't have any dog in this fight.  I am on the Bear discord and its designer maintains that they all do "602" to some extent or another, including the extruder that he designed.

I found this video that seems to indicate that when it happens, it's because of the way the dual drive gears work:

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

I sure wish they would just write a summary instead of making us watch 1/4 hour of video!

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

Yup.  I took two naps..  

Posted by: @jsw

I sure wish they would just write a summary instead of making us watch 1/4 hour of video!

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

I guess I've never experienced the problem as most of my prints have come out extremely well. That one photo looked like it had melted some, maybe?

All of my experience has been good, and yes, there is a learning curve. But after reading all the hellish stories of other printers and how you spend way more time tweaking and tuning, I guess I just got lucky (research) when I purchased my Prusa printers. I've bought seven so far, and they work great. Except for the kits I haven't assembled yet. They don't work because, well, I haven't assembled them (shame on me).

There is so much information available to you with the Prusa printer it's kind of hard to go wrong.

Below are prints from a model I posted today, and printed overnight.

Good luck in your endeavors!

RE:

Posted by: @zbigniew-trzepizur

Amusing as this thread is, I find it a great study of several sociological phenomena 😊 Almost a textbook example to learn about forming of conspiracy theories, confirmation bias, etc. from. Complete with the guy angrily dismissing any and all proofs that there, in fact, isn't any "602Gate", throwing his toys out of the pram and leaving. Fascinating.

Someone remind me please how we do our secret handshake here... So glad to be around here despite my print layers being so f-ed-up and wobbly. 

If you think that's amusing you should go look at one of the "bulge" threads, it has it's own religion, complete with followers and those trying to Shepard the herd.

Enjoy

Swiss_Cheese

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

Posted by: @swiss_cheese

If you think that's amusing you should go look at one of the "bulge" threads, it has it's own religion, complete with followers and those trying to Shepard the herd.

 

Enjoy

 

Swiss_Cheese

Nah, I'm good, that sounds too heavy for my taste.

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

😉 👍 

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

If you think that's amusing you should go look at one of the "bulge" threads, it has it's own religion, complete with followers

Another 'religious' item, with followers and detractors, has to do with the need, or lack of same, to re-lubricate the bearings prior to assembly.  If the followers are to believed, you would think that most of our machines should have died and gone to the underworld by now.  😉

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

All printers have their strengths and weaknesses.  I am building two Vorons for the heck of it.  That will be printers 21 and 22.  The XL will be number 23.  I like tinkering and learning from my mistakes.  From my experience, the Prusa needs less tinkering.  I will let you know about the Vorons.  

RE:

Posted by: @cwbullet

All printers have their strengths and weaknesses.  I am building two Vorons for the heck of it.  That will be printers 21 and 22.  The XL will be number 23.  I like tinkering and learning from my mistakes.  From my experience, the Prusa needs less tinkering.  I will let you know about the Vorons.  

Although I have 18 fewer (operational) printers than you do, I agree that the Prusa, for the most part, requires far less 'futzing around' with than others.  One example is that I watched (did not perform, did not assist) part of the bed leveling process on a Taz 5 a few years ago and decided that there had to be a better way.

When we look at these things critically, the Prusa requires fewer steps when making a print.  Assuming the machine is in calibration and the filament is loaded, it's basically, wipe off the plate, check to be sure there are no boogers or streamers hanging from the hot end, select the print and push the button.

My other printer (Ultimaker S5) is a bit more sophisticated, but it's basically the same process.  This one does not require the dialing-in of the Z calibration, as the probing process (very similar to that of the Prusa) appears to be more precise and absolute-based instead of relative-based.

The only printer I've seen which actually does approach the 'you press the button, it does the rest' simplicity is the Uprint (forget which model) at our local makerspace, but this is very much a 'closed' system, which requires their proprietary (and $$$$$) usually ABS filament and a 'disposable' ($) build plate for each print.  That unit is priced well into 5 figures.

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

Given how he broke it down into a presentation of not only his findings, but how he got there, in a way that made it relatively easy to understand, I thought 14:07 was pretty good.  I have watched plenty of longer videos where I learned less.

Posted by: @cwbullet

Yup.  I took two naps..  

Posted by: @jsw

I sure wish they would just write a summary instead of making us watch 1/4 hour of video!

 

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

 

Posted by: @cwbullet

All printers have their strengths and weaknesses.  I am building two Vorons for the heck of it.  That will be printers 21 and 22.  The XL will be number 23.  I like tinkering and learning from my mistakes.  From my experience, the Prusa needs less tinkering.  I will let you know about the Vorons.  

RE:

Having two sides to an issue is hardly in the realm of zealots. Bearings have failed in some customers MK3 machines. Fact. Misumi ships these bearings in oil and specifically instructs the user to remove the oil and grease the bearings. Fact. Packing oil is a lubricant and using it over grease makes the bearings much  smoother.. maybe this is a conscious decision. It's just not a manufacturer recommendation.  Even from the Support reply below, it is tipped in double negatives.. so there is a bit of hedging there. I think if I knew someone who was building a kit from scratch, I might tell them to grease the bearings.. just.. well.. it can't hurt ..  That said.. I think that Prusa would find a ton of bearing issues in their print farm if this was a big issue.. but no one knows what their maintenance process is.. maybe they grease their rods religiously. Hey.. maybe there is religion in everything.. 🙂  (reader will need to click on pic to view its content .. don't miss the two "not"s)

Posted by: @jsw

If you think that's amusing you should go look at one of the "bulge" threads, it has it's own religion, complete with followers

Another 'religious' item, with followers and detractors, has to do with the need, or lack of same, to re-lubricate the bearings prior to assembly.  If the followers are to believed, you would think that most of our machines should have died and gone to the underworld by now.  😉

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

You know maybe I'm a little to blunt sometimes 🙄 , and I didn't say this to the Op this time as I prefer in most cases to avoid those that I know aren't going to try.

But my inclination is, If you have to come ask if you should give up, not only have you already given up, but your just looking for trouble asking the question. Someone looking for help from the community (actually looking for help wouldn't be asking that question), nor would a mature adult, who understands what it means to be an adult. these people are looking for trouble, or to start it for attention, whether it be because they feel slighted, or maybe they got something other then what they thought it should be. if you ask the question (Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?) (the answer IS YES. grow up an adult could have made the decision without the drama.

I use these printers on a professional level, I'm not a farmer, I develop product for paying clients, and these printers are on the lowest level of our development ladder, however they preform quite well, and as such they are used to supplement the Massive Que, that we have for our more expensive MUCH MUCH more expensive and accurate machines.

So to the OP and all the whiners to come, if you aren't happy with your results spend 20k(+) big plus, and I'm sure you'll be happy. otherwise STFU and learn how to use your equipment you whinny bitches. I own 3 of these machines and have none of these problems, but then I've taken to time to learn how to use them. If you want to give me yours, I'll pay for the postage thats it, because I can make them work.

Regards

Swiss_Cheese

RE:

The edit time on this forum freaking sucks, just thought I'd say that for the 100th time since Prusa doesn't care one way or the other.

(the answer IS NO) Not yes

And spam Is here regardless.

RE: Should I persist with the MKS3+ ?

From my experience with a Voron 0.1 I would say they involve certainly more tinkering than a Prusa, that starts already with getting it up and running. The default klipper config comes with only a barebone list of useful macros. So you propably want to write some for basic stuff that comes in one form or another already with the stock Prusa printer. When you've got figured everything out and set up though, the printer can excel the Prusa in print quality (I mean it is also way more over-engineered than a Prusa, so it better be better). Whereas the grown up Vorons seem to be a bit better than the V0.1 with the Mini-Afterburner extruder where also for some people those surface finish issues are more of a thing. I do observe for example a bit more of horizontal layer wobliness, presumably from extrusion inconsistency than I would like (which is only visible when shining light from a bad angle and really just a minor issue) but in exchange almost no vertical artifacts which are visible to some extend on most Prusas. 

Those surface finish issues are not a conspiracy theory, they do exist but they are to some extend inherent to the technology and do vary from printer to printer due to a complex mixture of reasons. The different views on this issue are mainly a matter of perspective. Some get totally hung up by surfaces which show even the slightest barely visible artifact and others see those slight artifacts simply as the way how side surfaces look like on an FDM machine. Just like the top layer isn't 100% perfectly smooth with no visible lines either. Improving those artifacts is possible but I think an incredibly difficult and frustrating thing to do beyond some point most of us would consider perfectly fine print quality. If you are really bothered by those things, and don't need functional parts, get a resin printer. 

RE:

I have almost all the parts to build a Voron 2.4.  I have started that build.

I am researching the second printer build.  Building on this one might be premature.  I might build the Trident.  I have some extra parts.