RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
I wouldn't call it the big next thing, printers capable of doing this have been available for many years, we used them at work. Just not affordable for the average home user, or even some prosumers. If the XL or some other printer can offer this in an affordable fashion, I'm sure persons that are very happy with the printers they have now, will see one in their tool box.
But I'm still waiting, I'm happy with the printers I have now, I see them having long productive lives.
I like that Prusa did show a print (the springy pliers) made from two different types of filament. That demonstration confirmed the concept. I don't believe that I have much actual need for that, but, who knows, maybe in time it will turn out to be the Next Big Thing. Meanwhile, the extra filament efficiency that comes with multiple print heads might be nice if you do a lot of multi-color printing. Regardless of who is doing it, I'm just glad to see progress being made.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Waiting for what?
I wouldn't call it the big next thing, printers capable of doing this have been available for many years, we used them at work. Just not affordable for the average home user, or even some prosumers. If the XL or some other printer can offer this in an affordable fashion, I'm sure persons that are very happy with the printers they have now, will see one in their tool box.
But I'm still waiting, I'm happy with the printers I have now, I see them having long productive lives.
I like that Prusa did show a print (the springy pliers) made from two different types of filament. That demonstration confirmed the concept. I don't believe that I have much actual need for that, but, who knows, maybe in time it will turn out to be the Next Big Thing. Meanwhile, the extra filament efficiency that comes with multiple print heads might be nice if you do a lot of multi-color printing. Regardless of who is doing it, I'm just glad to see progress being made.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Oh sorry, an affordable printer that can do the things I was talking about "multiple material prints"
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Why I didn't buy a Bambu, yet. Three weeks after receiving my MK3S+ kit I have to say how impressed I am with Prusa' documentation, support and the reliability of the printer. I have also been looking at the Bambu X1 Carbon and though it looks and sounds great there were a couple reasons I decided to go with the Prusa. 1- The Prusa was a lot cheaper. 2. The Prusa is more mature and proven technology. 3. Everyone I know that owns a Prusa swears by their reliability and quality. 4. Many replacement parts can be 3D printed. With all that said Prusa is a pretty basic and a pretty standard consumer 3D printing technology platform. The Good - Since they didn't re-invent the wheel they could focus on quality and reliability. The Bad - There is nothing really technologically innovative, same speed, same resolution, same basic hot-end and firmware technology. The Ugly, tiny LCD screen, no wifi, 3D printed parts (let's see how long they last). The Bambu looks really exciting but it is still too soon to know how reliable their platform is and how costly it will be to maintain it. But if Bambu succeeds Prusa will surely have to up their game to stay competitive.
RE:
Ethernet is really cheap to implement, so I'd wager future versions will have it, especially given the insight that SR22pilot shed on its significance in the educational realm. As for me, I'd certainly prefer ethernet, if only because it's ultra reliable and it completely avoids over-the-air contention and range/coverage issues, but not having it is by no means a deal breaker.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
What is SR22Pilot? I do agree that theoretically wired Ethernet is faster and more reliable than WiFi which are both IEEE 802 protocol. but I find the infrastructure, maintenance and security advantages are not enough to justify the additional costs compared to current wireless mesh technologies. Today I would only recommend a client side wired solution when moving tremendous amounts of data such as render farms and 4K+ video transfer and editing.
RE:
Well it is just to cover all your bases.. Sometimes if you are selling to organizations, you might have a wired connection available, but no wireless.. Or, an organization might have two security models.. one for wireless and one for wired (I’m thinking of our current Community College) where wireless is governed by a central body and wired by the local techs.. In that case it is easier to meeting the current security model if you use a wired connection. Now this may not be often, but if you plan to sell into Educational environments, you’ll meet all kinds of wired vs wireless capabilities.
But the fact that it, at least, has wifi, is a bonus over the Prusa.. I think the XL and slicer has sucked up all their resources for evolving their currently line.. I’d a had network capability, similar to OctoPrint extremely high on my list of necessities for the MK3 and I’d be working on that all during the pandemic and rolled out well before now.
What is SR22Pilot? I do agree that theoretically wired Ethernet is faster and more reliable than WiFi which are both IEEE 802 protocol. but I find the infrastructure, maintenance and security advantages are not enough to justify the additional costs compared to current wireless mesh technologies. Today I would only recommend a client side wired solution when moving tremendous amounts of data such as render farms and 4K+ video transfer and editing.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
As stated by @Crab, it is much easier to get on the network with a hardwired connection. I plugged the Stratasys machine and the Makerbot into Ethernet and I was good. My laptop uses a personal login which changes every few months. Using that is the last thing I want to do. Hooking up a Bambu Lab machine would involve contacting County IT and hoping they will help.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Aha SR22 now I understand. I have never had any Issues getting on wireless, I use an WiFi RPi running Octopi/Octoprint both on my Ender (RPi Zero v2) and my new Prusa (RPi 3B+). I connect the RPi's to the printers via the USB ports and the only Issue I had was with the the RPI's not supporting the WPA3 protocol on My mesh network. I simply disabled WPA3 on my mesh and I was good to go. Where I live I am not too worried about WPA3 security being disabled, but since I have 4-5 old Wifi Routers sitting in a closet I could create a network just for the 3D printers. I am just to lazy to do that right now 🤣 🤣 🤣
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Seems as though we've arrived at a complete comparison.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Current price of Pi4 (4G RAM) is $230 amazon.ca (Canada).. board only .. kits with PS, Case, heatsink are about $280. So that adds much to price of Prusa when compared to Bambu.. Now you can do Orange Pi Zero 2 plus some other stuff .. but again.. not a part of Prusa product. I think if I were Prusa I might think about integrating, say the Orange Pi Zero 2 into my product with a small increase in price. Install S/w and then, out of box will have OctoPrint, will support camera (optional extra they can sell) and would be a more complete solution than even Bambu.
Aha SR22 now I understand. I have never had any Issues getting on wireless, I use an WiFi RPi running Octopi/Octoprint both on my Ender (RPi Zero v2) and my new Prusa (RPi 3B+). I connect the RPi's to the printers via the USB ports and the only Issue I had was with the the RPI's not supporting the WPA3 protocol on My mesh network. I simply disabled WPA3 on my mesh and I was good to go. Where I live I am not too worried about WPA3 security being disabled, but since I have 4-5 old Wifi Routers sitting in a closet I could create a network just for the 3D printers. I am just to lazy to do that right now 🤣 🤣 🤣
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Just wondering: why does the Pi remains so popular when for that price you can buy a more capable mini PC? Is it because of the Pi's size and possible small screen integration? Unless you're using the Pi's IO pins to do something, which doesn't seem to be the case here, then a mini PC running linux will get you the same software functionality, and probably for less money depending on how you shop. I guess it must be the small size of the Pi and tiny monitor support that's key for builders who want a fully integrated system that they can pick up with one hand and move around.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Oh sorry, an affordable printer that can do the things I was talking about "multiple material prints"
The Bambulab is very affordable! And it can perfectly do multi material prints!
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
I was buying RPi 3B+ for $35 and the RPi Zero V2 for $15 before the shortage. The old RPi Zero v1 I use to pay $5 for. There was nothing else this good in this price range. Now I am looking at cheap android devices for Octoprint.
RE:
Can it do combo PETG and TPU prints to, for example, make the Prusa springy pliers? @SR22pilot seemed to say not because the TPU would "gum up" the works. I'm curious to know.
Oh sorry, an affordable printer that can do the things I was talking about "multiple material prints"
The Bambulab is very affordable! And it can perfectly do multi material prints!
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Well ok, TPU does not work because it is not compatible with the AMS. At least thats what they say. I did not test it. But seems they won't add support soon, because the material is just too flexible. Don't know how you could solve that issue...
RE:
So, setting TPU aside, can the AMS help combine all the other filament types together? From what I've been reading, it seems to work pretty well generally, and certainly for filaments of the same type. I've never done disolvable supports before, but even just that alone seems like a worthwhile capability to have on hand.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
So, setting TPU aside, can the AMS help combine all the other filament types together? From what I've been reading, it seems to work pretty well generally, and certainly for filaments of the same type. I've never done disolvable supports before, but even just that alone seems like a worthwhile capability to have on hand.
From what I read you can mix filament types - as PETG and PLA, for example, do not adhere to each other very well so you can print a PETG model using PLA supports, or vice versa, and hence result in a cleaner print. Dissolvable should work in the same way. It’s just TPU that can’t run through the AMS due to its flexibility.
--> MK4 - MK4S - MINI+ - Accelerometer Guide - BambuLab A1 Combo <--
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
The Pi's are popular because there is a whole cottage industry that has developed projects (many education for kids) that are fully available and documented using the Raspberry Pis and proprietary, low cost, peripherals that connect via its staked connectors. There are also many canned images that just work and have all the drivers built in .. so you get a Linux image and don't need to fiddle with any driver support. It's much easier now in linux to auto-detect stuff.. but years ago it could be a ton of work getting some drivers working. So some instructors at Colleges & Schools might have whole curriculae developed with the Pi's plus a ton of peripheral hardware and it would be much work to redo with another platform (and you'd have to re-buy peripherals, if they exist). For Octoprint.. you are right.. any Linux distro should work. But there is an OctoPI with everything on it.. just burn and insert microSD. That is what I did on my Pi4. It's not that you can't get a Linux miniPC, install Ubuntu and then Octoprint, etc.. but if you are hoping to sell 3D printers as tools to the less tech savy population, then telling them to "SSH in as Root" and modify config files might be daunting. That's why Prusa should include it.
Just wondering: why does the Pi remains so popular when for that price you can buy a more capable mini PC? Is it because of the Pi's size and possible small screen integration? Unless you're using the Pi's IO pins to do something, which doesn't seem to be the case here, then a mini PC running linux will get you the same software functionality, and probably for less money depending on how you shop. I guess it must be the small size of the Pi and tiny monitor support that's key for builders who want a fully integrated system that they can pick up with one hand and move around.
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
So, setting TPU aside, can the AMS help combine all the other filament types together? From what I've been reading, it seems to work pretty well generally, and certainly for filaments of the same type. I've never done disolvable supports before, but even just that alone seems like a worthwhile capability to have on hand.
From what I read you can mix filament types - as PETG and PLA, for example, do not adhere to each other very well so you can print a PETG model using PLA supports, or vice versa, and hence result in a cleaner print. Dissolvable should work in the same way. It’s just TPU that can’t run through the AMS due to its flexibility.
I actually finally got around to testing this today on the AMS. I used PETG as support for a test PLA print and it worked well. It probably slowed the print down by a couple of minutes for the temperature changes but it was pretty minimal. All I did was a benchy tipped on an angle with tree supports and it popped right off after cooling down.
Proud owner of an original Prusa Mendel i2, original wooden frame i3 and now a mini+