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Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon Poll is created on Dec 20, 2022

  
  
  
  
  

Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon  

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dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

With that one mod, what kind of speed are you getting from your MK3 now as compared to before?

Posted by: @filavandrel

I spent a couple hours last weekend installing klipper and input shaping onto my mk3 which has totally stock hardware. It has no problem running the bambulabs slicer profiles.

 

 

Publié : 25/01/2023 7:43 pm
RickM
(@rickm)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @dimprov

Reading through the questions, I now understand why Tom Sandladerer even today strongly recommends the MK3S+:  it's either all about risk avoidance or, in other cases, being able to know exactly what it is that you're getting before you pull the trigger.  i.e. getting all possible questions answered in advance.  I'm not saying that's wrong by any means, because I too attempt my due diligence in the same way, but it's interesting that this is what for many people overshadows everything, including whatever is already known or is otherwise answerable.  Longevity?  Yeah, that's a risk.  Maybe even a fatal flaw.  Wait 5 years and then you'll know.  What if the company goes bankrupt?  Undeniable risk.  Who knows what their cashflow situation is or whether their finances are soundly managed.  What if the company gets acquired and the new owners charge outrageous amounts to replace proprietary parts?  And on and on and on.  So, within that framework of doubt, the MK3S+ becomes the safe choice.  Well, heck, I get it.  That's why I bought an MK3 five years ago.  For the later adopters, which is most people, now must seem like the perfect time to buy one.  

They have confirmed that if they ever close up they'll opensource everything.

The rest are all valid arguments though, we simply don't know the longevity. I imagine there will be parts that need replacing (carbon rods and bearings being an obvious one). I think a lot of these rightful worries will be mostly solved when they fully populate the parts store. If they continue to add everything and make sure theres good stock of the key components then it'll go a long way to helping.

It's also still early days. We are slowly starting to see 3rd party components but I imagine this will increse quite a bit this year.

 

Proud owner of an original Prusa Mendel i2, original wooden frame i3 and now a mini+

Publié : 25/01/2023 7:50 pm
Crab
 Crab
(@crab)
Reputable Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

grin.. nope.. I'm going with the bambu.. just looking to prepare my ED network people what's coming so we have a network solution.. No risk, no reward.

Posted by: @dimprov

Reading through the questions, I now understand why Tom Sandladerer even today strongly recommends the MK3S+:  it's either all about risk avoidance or, in other cases, being able to know exactly what it is that you're getting before you pull the trigger.  i.e. getting all possible questions answered in advance.  I'm not saying that's wrong by any means, because I too attempt my due diligence in the same way, but it's interesting that this is what for many people overshadows everything, including whatever is already known or is otherwise answerable.  Longevity?  Yeah, that's a risk.  Maybe even a fatal flaw.  Wait 5 years and then you'll know.  What if the company goes bankrupt?  Undeniable risk.  Who knows what their cashflow situation is or whether their finances are soundly managed.  What if the company gets acquired and the new owners charge outrageous amounts to replace proprietary parts?  And on and on and on.  So, within that framework of doubt, the MK3S+ becomes the safe choice.  Well, heck, I get it.  That's why I bought an MK3 five years ago.  For the later adopters, which is most people, now must seem like the perfect time to buy one.  

 

Publié : 25/01/2023 7:56 pm
Filavandrel
(@filavandrel)
Active Member
RE:

Whatever Bambulabs prints at 😁

Printing at 300mm/s is no problem. I have tested speeds up to 600mm/s but was limited the communication speed of the UART. If I connected the RPi via USB the to the Einsy I bet it could go faster. 

My "normal" settings are 300mm/s for printing and 500mm/s for travels. 10k acceleration produces almost no ringing and lets me get up to top speed even on shorter moves.

The V6 + a CHT nozzle does keep up at these speeds even at 0.25mm layer height but just barely. The hotend is the limiting factor at these speeds, not the design of the frame or even the fact that it's a bedslinger.  

Ce message a été modifié il y a 10 months par Filavandrel
Publié : 25/01/2023 7:59 pm
dimprov a aimé
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

For me what changed my mind was that I have never before seen such uniformly and strongly favorable reviews of a 3D printer before, from literally all of the major 3D guru youtubers.  It's as though they were reviewing the 2nd Coming or something.

Publié : 25/01/2023 7:59 pm
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

Over 4 years ago a bunch of us on the Prusa Forum decided to see how fast we could push the print speed on the MK3:

https://forum.prusa3d.com/forum/original-prusa-i3-mk3s-mk3-hardware-firmware-and-software-help/does-someone-want-to-know-how-fast-they-can-print-extrude-look-here/

We could hit 300mm/sec, but just barely with a Volcano.  That was back before the CHT existed, and certainly long before Klipper existed.  So, your existence proof with both CHT and Klipper are quite exciting!  I think I may give it a try.  Thank  you for posting!

Posted by: @filavandrel

Whatever Bambulabs prints at 😁

Printing at 300mm/s is no problem. I have tested speeds up to 600mm/s but was limited the communication speed of the UART. If I connected the RPi via USB the to the Einsy I bet it could go faster. 

My "normal" settings are 300mm/s for printing and 500mm/s for travels. 10k acceleration produces almost no ringing and lets me get up to top speed even on shorter moves.

The V6 + a CHT nozzle does keep up at these speeds even at 0.25mm layer height but just barely. The hotend is the limiting factor at these speeds, not the design of the frame or even the fact that it's a bedslinger.  

 

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:05 pm
SR22pilot
(@sr22pilot)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon
Posted by: @iftibashir

 

Posted by: @sr22pilot

I guess enough for now. I hope I answered some of the questions that have been posted. 

Awesome - thank you for the information. I’m very tempted!!

Can you advise if Prusament PLA spools will fit in the AMS? I have over 10 rolls of filament I would like to continue to use!

Also, I generally print with one or two colours most of the time. I understand the load/unload filament is rather clunky. However, on further thought I guess this is not an issue when using the AMS, as you would simply load your required colour in a slot that is not currently fed into the extruded, and the system would then switch across to the chosen filament slot and load it itself before printing (when set in the slicer). Is that correct?

Finally, has the layering on a curved or domed top been improved? I see from reviews the layers are not as nice on a top curved surface?

I don't know about Prusamint. I know Protopasta is an issue with this used to cut the cardboard down: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5489326 Also, the AMS doesn't like carboard spools. A simple hack is to use electrical tape to cover the edges. That adds grip and prevents cardboard dust.

Even if you need to remove one color and add another, the AMS makes it easy. In the slicer you click to sync to what is in the AMS and you can set which to use. You can also then color the STL using tools in the slicer and it will automatically switch filaments. Vertical colors have a huge impact. A color change by layer is almost free. For example, you can say to color everything above a certain height a different color. 

I haven't seen the dome issues but I haven't done prints where it might be huge. The head of the bear I recently printed was fine. 

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:05 pm
Filavandrel
(@filavandrel)
Active Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

I do wonder what kind of "sponsorship" a lot of these channels get.

Thomas Sanladerer has been very transparent about the amount of money that changes hands when manufacturers want content creators to "tweak" their reviews. Tom has openly turned down a lot of cash deals in order to maintain his journalistic integrity. Only when he sings it's praises will I believe all of the hype. 

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:06 pm
Netpackrat a aimé
Filavandrel
(@filavandrel)
Active Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

I posted a link to my github which has instructions on how to install it, here. I am looking for testers, please let me know if you have any issues. 

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:09 pm
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

 

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:18 pm
SR22pilot
(@sr22pilot)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @fuchsr

Very helpful. In fact it talked me out of placing an order that I was really getting close to. Doesn't sound like the AMS is going to give me what I want, plus inferior sheets. Speed matters little to me. My current systems are enough for my production needs, and to tinker I can wait another few months for the XL. 

But I can certainly see one in my future. One topic that's hasn't been touched on is farm support. Any tools to remotely manage say a handful of printers?

Not sure about farm support but Bambu Studio certainly seems aimed at that. On the Device tab, you can select which printer to view. When you click print after slicing, it shows the name of the targeted printer along with allowing turning off/on options such as bed leveling and time lapse video.

To figure what can and can't be done with the AMS, just look at the extruder and the AMS sequence. Since it is single extruder, you can't mix materials with different characteristics such as ABS with PLA. The temperature differences would cause an issue. Perhaps future software will work around this but, as for now, you can't mix. Changing filament involves cutting the filament at the extruder, rewinding the filament, loading the new filament and purging the filament. You can set purge to infill. You can also adjust the purge. It is fairly intelligent. For example, black to white will purge more than two similar colors. 

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:18 pm
SR22pilot
(@sr22pilot)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @crab

@ SR22pilot Yes.. a bit disappointing about no Ethernet ports.. especially for Educational use.. which is what I'm currently looking for. Hooking into Wifi might be difficult as organizations tend to disconnect users after periods of time. I would agree about the USB stick option. Again nice for students to deal with those, than very small SD cards that get lost. Ideally, I'd like to see a common area set up (maybe in a cloud) that can have areas for students to upload files to.. and then pick and choose any of the current local printers.. This is not a farm setup.. (although would have same functionality) but one that would make it much easier to manage for educational use. This would tip a huge amount of sales for educational users.. Now.. the Prusa is even lower down in the tech ladder than Prusa for connectivity for educational use, so likely the  Bambu still wins out pretty easily.

I'm also a bit concerned about the PEI sheet options for the lidar. I've heard that regular PEI sheets won't work.. so one might be limited to an inferior experience, if they want the lidar functionality.. 

I had to turn off plate recognition. Otherwise, I haven't seen an issue with the Energetic plate; better than the BL Textured PEI plate. I'm hoping to print stickers that mimic the BL codes so I can turn the feature back on. I have messed up prints before because I had Bambu Studio set to Cool Plate and had Textured PEI in the printer. Normally the printer would warn me but I had that feature turned off.

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:28 pm
RickM
(@rickm)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @filavandrel

I do wonder what kind of "sponsorship" a lot of these channels get.

Thomas Sanladerer has been very transparent about the amount of money that changes hands when manufacturers want content creators to "tweak" their reviews. Tom has openly turned down a lot of cash deals in order to maintain his journalistic integrity. Only when he sings it's praises will I believe all of the hype. 

FWIW Tom and CNC Kitchen spoke about this on their podcast - with Bambu there were zero rules/requirements for reviews. They were actively told to highlight issues so they could fix them.

In contrast AnkerMake required positive reviews only, which is why you see very few credible reviews, and the few that you do see are almost certainly from bad reviewrs who were willing to sign the ridiculous contract they offered.

Tom's a bit of an outlyer on the Bambu, and I suspect its partially becuase he was passed up on the reviews and never sent one. He bought a P1P instead but after a small but loud group of weirdos attacked Nero3D for pointing out the thermal runaway issue (since updated in firmware) he opted out of any Bambu coverage. I understand his reasoning but it is a bit of a shame really as it lets that small annoying group of fanatics win.

Proud owner of an original Prusa Mendel i2, original wooden frame i3 and now a mini+

Publié : 25/01/2023 8:52 pm
Filavandrel a aimé
SR22pilot
(@sr22pilot)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @crab

Education use: Network Connectivity
============================

So I might have one concern for connectivity. If there is wifi connection only and we are in an EDucation environment, likely we can connect to the wireless.. (maybe).. But if the students then need to connect the cloud to download files, I wonder if 'holes' have to be open in the firewall of the ED environment.. And if you ever know the IT rules of large organizations, often they would tarr & feather you before opening up firewall ports..   OR.. if it might work like TeamViewer, where the printer would open a 2-way HTTP connection to the cloud that would allow a student to send to that printer without being blocked by the network..

Would be so much easier, if there was an ethernet port that one could access locally.

Question #2, would be .. If I take a wireless AP and connect it to our ED network and have all the printers and client computers connect to the wireless... if it is easy to have each client computer still use all slicer software and send their output directly to the printers without going thru the cloud.. (don't need camera support there). ?

If cloud connectivity is forced.. it could be a deal-breaker for many ED organizations.. and they could get a boat-load of sales there.

 

Students could slice and save the gcode to a USB stick or place it in a directory for faculty to print. My students never kick off a print on their own. Makerbot Cloud hasn't required any IT intervention to print to my Makerbot Method. Then again, Makerbot Cloud is pretty limited. However, it does stream video of the printer. All that said, no Ethernet is a huge oversight. I could but 33 X1C printers, with AMS, for the cost of one F370. The printer has USB internally. There is even a USB cable that goes to the extruder. 

Publié : 25/01/2023 9:03 pm
Netpackrat
(@netpackrat)
Reputable Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @rickm

They have confirmed that if they ever close up they'll opensource everything.

It's pretty unlikely that a company in bankruptcy would be allowed to release its intellectual property assets as open source.

Publié : 25/01/2023 9:20 pm
RickM
(@rickm)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @netpackrat

 

Posted by: @rickm

They have confirmed that if they ever close up they'll opensource everything.

It's pretty unlikely that a company in bankruptcy would be allowed to release its intellectual property assets as open source.

You'd have some pretty good warning if you were going to go bankrupt. 

Proud owner of an original Prusa Mendel i2, original wooden frame i3 and now a mini+

Publié : 25/01/2023 9:30 pm
Netpackrat
(@netpackrat)
Reputable Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

 

Posted by: @rickm

You'd have some pretty good warning if you were going to go bankrupt. 

Yes, and under those circumstances, anyone in the company in a position to give away the IP will also have a fiduciary duty preventing them from doing so.  And they are likely to face sanctions after the fact.  So they can say whatever they want now while things are looking good, but it's unlikely to ever happen.

Publié : 25/01/2023 9:40 pm
SR22pilot
(@sr22pilot)
Eminent Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

The video was interesting. The multiple tool-heads offers a lot of flexibility. The items my work printers have that I miss at home are totally controlled chamber temperature and dual heads for printing with supports. My earlier comments about ethernet and USB-A don't affect me at home.

Publié : 25/01/2023 9:47 pm
dimprov
(@dimprov)
Noble Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

I like that Prusa did show a print (the springy pliers) made from two different types of filament.  That demonstration confirmed the concept.  I don't believe that I have much actual need for that, but, who knows, maybe in  time it will turn out to be the Next Big Thing.  Meanwhile, the extra filament efficiency that comes with multiple print heads might be nice  if you do a lot of multi-color printing.  Regardless of who is doing it, I'm just glad to see progress being made.

Publié : 25/01/2023 11:01 pm
R&D
 R&D
(@rd)
Estimable Member
RE: Prusa MK3S+ vs Bambu Lab X1 carbon

My sentiments exactly.

Posted by: @fuchsr

Very helpful. In fact it talked me out of placing an order that I was really getting close to. Doesn't sound like the AMS is going to give me what I want, plus inferior sheets. Speed matters little to me. My current systems are enough for my production needs, and to tinker I can wait another few months for the XL. 

But I can certainly see one in my future.

 

Publié : 25/01/2023 11:20 pm
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