Power coated sheets delayed again.  

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Yeah this is pretty disappointing. I understand that the circumstances leading to the shortage of them is out of Prusa's control, and I understand why people who intentionally chose to wait get it first; but what is in Prusa's control and what I don't understand is why it is that people who ordered their printer months upon months ago aren't given first crack at the powdered sheets that do come in before the people who are just now ordering their printers?

This is what disappoints me too. I only bought the MK2.5 upgrade kit so that I could have a removable textured bed for some parts we print. The new gears and pinda probe aren't that much use to us (just a nice bonus). I didn't mind getting the smooth PEI sheet and waiting a little longer for the textured bed, as the e-mail made it sound like we would be able to buy it as soon as it was ready:

"That means kits are going out with smooth PEI and same deal with $10 and free shipping voucher for sheets when they are available"

I can accept the delay due to quality control issues, but the fact that many of us purchased printers or upgrade kits a year ago and still don't have the powder coated beds, but new customers do, really galls me. With hindsight, I wouldn't have purchased an upgrade kit as it has been of minimal benefit to us - I didn't expect to have to wait over a year to get the part we needed.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

They already have our money

...manufacturing problems of the powder coated sheet are not their fault, but the way that they're choosing to distribute them is solely their fault.

In 7 days time it will be exactly one year since I ordered my first Mk3 and the powder coated sheet was one of the reasons I put my money down - I dealt with Limonene and PEI replacement once on my Mk2S I never wish to repeat the experience, so I was really excited to see this was no longer required on the Mk3.

A year ago I trusted Prusa to always do the right thing for their loyal customers.

I am genuinely sorry to say that is now no longer the case.

I also am 10 days away from my 1 year anniversary of my MK3 order placement. And I have purchased 2 printers! My loyalty is fading Prusa! Make it right for those of us who were early adopters!

Mike

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

I will buy a second. It may not be a prusa also.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

There have been a lot of comments about how Prusa totally screwed up when advertising the textured PEI sheets when the Mk3 was first announced, and how the smooth PEI sheets were not an adequate substitute, with many of these posts ending with I'll never buy from Prusa again or words to that effect. I would like to offer an opposing view.

Where I'm Coming From

I ordered my first 3D printer kit in early November 2011. It was a Makerbot Thing-o-Matic, which among many features, claimed a conveyor belt, so that parts could be automatically ejected when done. The kit cost $1300, for a printer with a 100mmx100mmx100mm build volume and a heated bed. The only filament option was ABS. In actuality, the conveyor belt never worked, and many Makerbots caught fire or melted cables. A week after I received my kit, Makerbot announced their Replicator series of 3D printers, and dropped the price on the Thing-o-Matic kits by $300 -- with no refunds to anyone for the difference in price, no upgrade path to the newer models, and no support for existing owners.

Yeah, Makerbot screwed its early customers and lost its vision and identity, but I still learned a lot from that early printer, and printed a lot of things. Eventually I ran out of replacement heated beds and wiring harnesses and it turned into a door stop. Other manufacturing technologies and other projects claimed my attention, but I still followed 3D printing, searching for my next printer.

In November 2017, after Prusa Research announced the Mk2, I ordered the Mk2 kit. It took a lot longer to deliver than expected, and had a few problems that had to be worked out, but for a little more than half the price of the Thing-a-Matic it was 10 times the printer (ain't progress grand?) I got a lot of use out of the Mk2 and it rekindled my love of 3D printing (and my accumulation of filament reels), enough so that when the Mk3 was announced a year later, I almost didn't get the Mk3 -- because the Mk2 was still so great. But I did order a Mk3 kit (and eventually ordered the Mk2.5 upgrade for my Mk2) because I wanted that removable build sheet. Now I frequently have both printers going full-tilt for days on end printing prototypes and parts that I've designed.

With All That Said

The Prusa Mk2 was largely the culmination of a series of advances in printer technology -- there was nothing new about the Mk2 other than all of these proven ideas were put into a single package. Prusa Research just didn't plan for the demand for the Mk2, so they had horrible problems ramping up their production and shipping, resulting in long delays. They didn't use hardened steel rods, with resulted in the Mk2S upgrade. The PEI sheet that was glued to the build plate was fragile, and replacing it was arduous, but all in all, a very reliable printer.

The Prusa Mk3 bears a lot of similarities to the Mk2, but includes a lot of new experimental advances, and experimental means that there will be problems and out-right failures, but they still got a lot of things right. The removable build sheets work really well, even if we're still waiting for the promised textured sheets a year later. The optical filament sensor doesn't work as well as expected (particularly when printing with translucent filaments). On the other hand, the new PINDA probe is much better than with the Mk2, and the Trinamic drivers are faster and more reliable than anything else I've used.

Even more importantly, while the Prusa Mk2 is no longer under active development, Prusa Research is still supporting it, still sells parts for it, and still supports its Mk2 users. Yeah, they don't always get everything right, but no one's perfect. Sometimes they raise expectations and then have difficulties meeting those expectations -- but they keep trying. And IMO, Jo Prusa is the real deal, head and shoulders above that sell-out poser, Bre Pettis.

If you're not happy with your printer, and Prusa Research hasn't been able to satisfy you, then by all means, bitch and moan here in the forums (I have in other areas), and buy your next printer somewhere else -- that's your right. For me, even when there are problems, I've found Prusa Research to be responsive and honest (even if the customer support group seems a little disconnected from the shipping group).

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Thank you for this brilliant contribution . 😀
Nothing more to say!

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

I've ordered my MK2.5 upgrade in November last year and it was shipped in May this year. Even with the entire delay and no PC sheet it's a good upgrade for my MK2S and it does what I wanted it to. Basically the removable build plate was the main reason for purchasing the upgrade and, even though I haven't received the one that was advertised, it functions as it should. Granted, I don't get the texture I want for my parts but in the end I have a fully functional product.

Now, where do I want to go with this? I am frustrated because I still haven't received the right build plate even after a 5 month delay to my order and I can't help but get annoyed when I see people getting their orders from a few weeks back with PC build plates. But in the end the people at Prusa Research have taken care of all other deliveries and they have provided us with an interim build plate to use until PC build plate stock is large enough to complete all other orders. So from my point of view, setting aside the frustration, I can't be mad with them although I will be more reluctant in the future when ordering something from them soon after the release date (currently not getting the MMU2 until knowing for sure the delivery will be withing a few weeks from ordering).

Regarding the fact that they are taking care of new customers instead of making whole the old ones, well... I think that's just a good business decision. You want to grow your customer base, you want to have financial power to increase productivity and it's nothing wrong with it. They can't stay forever the "little guys taking care of everyone" if they want to grow. I admire the way they handle things even though not all their decisions were in my best interest as an early adopter.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion so I get the point of everyone that is frustrated and pissed off with the situation, but I think we should take a step back and re-evaluate. It's only normal to be upset as a customer but as long as I know they will deliver at some point or another whilst I have an intermediary product to use, I'm not going to call them out or never buy from them and, when recommending their products, I will make sure to include they possibility of massive delays.

Happy printing to everyone!

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

I just do not think it's fair that new orders can wait 2-3 weeks and have a printer with PC sheet while the people that ordered printers almost a year ago are put on the back burner until they have enough of the PC sheet to ship out with new orders and the rest of the world.
If they keep having manufacturing problems the people ordered in 2017 will never see a PC sheet as they will be used up by new orders.
The 2017 orders should have first choice of getting a PC sheet then new orders, at this point I do not give a sh*t about the $10 discount on the PC sheet. I'll pay full price, just give me the option to buy it.

and no I'm not one of those posting I'll never buy another Prusa, I love the MK3 and would love it more with PC sheet, I even ordered a second one a few months ago. Would I pre-order again? YES as I pre-ordered the MMU2.

So how fair is it that new orders get the PC sheet and orders almost a year old are still waiting??

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

.......
and no I'm not one of those posting I'll never buy another Prusa, I love the MK3 and would love it more with PC sheet, I even ordered a second one a few months ago. Would I pre-order again? YES as I pre-ordered the MMU2.

So how fair is it that new orders get the PC sheet and orders almost a year old are still waiting??

I too am disappointed but will only say that I'll never pre-order an unproven/unreleased item from Prusa again though, I'll leave that to others... Overall I'm happy with the MK3 as it's been pretty much trouble free since I've had it and the one time I needed support they were quick respond. What I didn't like was the much longer than promised delivery of the unit and poor communication regarding the delivery and though my unit still works I'm just not happy with the handling of the powder coated sheets, again poor communication and the way they are handling doling out the limited quantities they are able to get. All that being said, I decided to try this powder coated sheet, https://www.ebay.com/itm/Prusa-i3-MK3-Mk2-5-Double-sided-Pei-TEXTURED-Powder-Coated-spring-steel-sheet-V3/232936788378?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649 off of Ebay as it's supposedly Ultem PEI.... I am looking at a second printer, my top choice is a e3D tool-changer unit followed by a DIY Voron V2.1

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

I tried holding out for the powder coated sheet but gave up. I wasn't thrilled about the two month wait for the MK3 kit...or the ordering experience in general. I also agree with others that Prusa's decision to include the new sheets with new orders before fulfilling old orders was not a good one. They had to know this was bound to create animosity with customers who ordered and could not get the sheets.

That said, my experience with the MK3 has been fantastic since I completed the build. It's been head and shoulders better than my Creality CR-10 for more complex prints and high strength filaments (not knocking the CR-10...it's a good machine for the money). The support community here is great, and I like the way Prusa continues to support this machine, and older models, with firmware updates, improved parts, slicer development, etc.

For my part...the smooth / sticker sheet has actually been working so well I don't think I'll bother trying to get a powder coated sheet until I wear this one out and need a new build surface...

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Well we all guessed it. Don't expect the PC sheets to be in stock in October. I just spoke with chat and they said they will be available in the upcoming "WEEKS".. Yea right, Unreal.. Upcoming weeks means months maybe years from their track record. I guess they are putting all their efforts into their new launch of the new SLA printer and forgetting about us MK3 chumps. They keep blaming the production yields. I would think within one year you can refine your process. I mean they developed and marketed a whole new printer design in one year. Do not for one minute try to make me believe that its still an issue getting good yields after many months of using that excuse. I believe there priority's are well beyond these sheets at this point. I will not be ordering the new printer. For all I know I will have to wait over a year to receive the best selling point of the printer, and that's a maybe....

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

[...] Do not for one minute try to make me believe that its still an issue getting good yields after many months of using that excuse. I believe there priority's are well beyond these sheets at this point.I've seen one knock-off attempt of the Prusa PC sheets, and they're already on their 3rd iteration and selling for more than double the price. Going by reviews on Amazon and eBay, their results are "spotty" at best, and the quality below Prusa's standard. If creating these beds was trivial, you can bet the many low-cost brands knocking off printers would be selling powder-coated textured beds. I bet they're trying and (no surprise) finding it hard to do.

It's not like Prusa has a monopoly on magnetic flex steel sheets or textured patterns. Interestingly though, there are no comparable alternatives. Powder-coated textured flex-steel sheets must be... actually hard to manufacture up to acceptable quality standards. (Well, Prusa levels anyhow.)

I will not be ordering the new printer. For all I know I will have to wait over a year to receive the best selling point of the printer, and that's a maybe....If the only reason you bought a Prusa printer was for the textured pattern on the 1st layer, perhaps you did buy the wrong printer. Good luck with your powder coated textured bed on whatever you buy next.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

[...] Do not for one minute try to make me believe that its still an issue getting good yields after many months of using that excuse. I believe there priority's are well beyond these sheets at this point.I've seen one knock-off attempt of the Prusa PC sheets, and they're already on their 3rd iteration and selling for more than double the price. Going by reviews on Amazon and eBay, their results are "spotty" at best, and the quality below Prusa's standard. If creating these beds was trivial, you can bet the many low-cost brands knocking off printers would be selling powder-coated textured beds. I bet they're trying and (no surprise) finding it hard to do.

It's not like Prusa has a monopoly on magnetic flex steel sheets or textured patterns. Interestingly though, there are no comparable alternatives. Powder-coated textured flex-steel sheets must be... actually hard to manufacture up to acceptable quality standards. (Well, Prusa levels anyhow.)

I will not be ordering the new printer. For all I know I will have to wait over a year to receive the best selling point of the printer, and that's a maybe....If the only reason you bought a Prusa printer was for the textured pattern on the 1st layer, perhaps you did buy the wrong printer. Good luck with your powder coated textured bed on whatever you buy next.

I did buy the printer for just for the textured sheet. They knew of the production problems of this sheet in the beginning. They were not very up front as to how bad it really was. They sold us on the idea for months that this was a minor issue and will be resolved in a short time frame while still boasting the sheet texture and sales of the MK3 coming in because of it. They should have not even mentioned it till they had over 80% + production yields on the sheets. It was a huge selling point. I needed it to produce some quality custom textured electronic enclosure face plates to sell. So yea, It was a huge disappointment and let down. Then to hear that they were selling the powder coated sheets to new sales of MK3's before I get one is a huge F/U to me.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

[...] I did buy the printer for just for the textured sheet. They knew of the production problems of this sheet in the beginning. They were not very up front as to how bad it really was. They sold us on the idea for months that this was a minor issue and will be resolved in a short time frame while still boasting the sheet texture and sales of the MK3 coming in because of it. They should have not even mentioned it till they had over 80% + production yields on the sheets. It was a huge selling point. I needed it to produce some quality custom textured electronic enclosure face plates to sell. So yea, It was a huge disappointment and let down. Then to hear that they were selling the powder coated sheets to new sales of MK3's before I get one is a huge F/U to me.
If you ordered the printer with the sheet before April 2018 (IIRC) you were switched to the more-expensive double-sided PEI sticker. You will be provided a $10 voucher and free shipping when the PC sheets are available in the store. If this wasn't accepetable, you should have canceled then, or if you missed the announcements, sought an immediate refund upon receipt of the printer missing this "essential" feature. You received the more expensive stickered sheet, plus will receive a $10 voucher and free shipping as compensation. If you opted to go ahead and print in the intervening months, it sure sounds like the printer was usable to some degree. You have been compensated. If those terms were not acceptable and the texture is truly so critical, you would definitely have been within your rights to seek an immediate and full refund. By not doing so, you accepted the terms of the compensation.

If you ordered after April (IIRC) you were given the option of waiting. If you opted to wait, you are getting the sheet after waiting. If you opted not to, you get the stickered sheet immediately.

If you "needed it to produce some quality textured electronic enclosure face plates" then it sounds like you're more guilty of over-promising than you're accusing Prusa of. They've been up front about the issue. You have been compensated.

I'm in the same boat. It sucks. But these incessant petulant cries of victimhood are really getting old. We get it: It sucks. Life's not perfect. People who ordered some colors of Teslas had the option withdrawn. My shiny new phone has been delayed. It sucks. We get it. You're not the only one in this boat, and Prusa would surely rather be dealing with something else. We get it.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Here Here ....

I was one of those that got pretty 'irritated' way back - hells bells is it a year already ... but in hindsight having printed with the PEI sheet since January I've got to join in and say get over it, although 'entitled' I've no desire whatsoever to convert from the 'plain' two sided plate that I have, I even bought a spare as soon as possible - still on my first side on my original sheet though. Did Joe handle things well? no I don't think so his suppliers let him down, still are and it just wasn't communicated - so people filled the silence with frustration - me included. I've got over it and the printer has become the single most used tool in my collection.

If texture is important then my situation probably wouldn't have been so easy to live with - but it wasn't, it isn't and won't be any time soon for me, the build plate innovation even without powder coating isn't something to sniff at especially if you see what the alternatives are.

The powder coated sheet sure isn't the best thing the MK3 has to offer, many people are printing successfully with a Prusa that would never have achieved comparable results otherwise.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

[...] I did buy the printer for just for the textured sheet. They knew of the production problems of this sheet in the beginning. They were not very up front as to how bad it really was. They sold us on the idea for months that this was a minor issue and will be resolved in a short time frame while still boasting the sheet texture and sales of the MK3 coming in because of it. They should have not even mentioned it till they had over 80% + production yields on the sheets. It was a huge selling point. I needed it to produce some quality custom textured electronic enclosure face plates to sell. So yea, It was a huge disappointment and let down. Then to hear that they were selling the powder coated sheets to new sales of MK3's before I get one is a huge F/U to me.
If you ordered the printer with the sheet before April 2018 (IIRC) you were switched to the more-expensive double-sided PEI sticker. You will be provided a $10 voucher and free shipping when the PC sheets are available in the store. If this wasn't accepetable, you should have canceled then, or if you missed the announcements, sought an immediate refund upon receipt of the printer missing this "essential" feature. You received the more expensive stickered sheet, plus will receive a $10 voucher and free shipping as compensation. If you opted to go ahead and print in the intervening months, it sure sounds like the printer was usable to some degree. You have been compensated. If those terms were not acceptable and the texture is truly so critical, you would definitely have been within your rights to seek an immediate and full refund. By not doing so, you accepted the terms of the compensation.

If you ordered after April (IIRC) you were given the option of waiting. If you opted to wait, you are getting the sheet after waiting. If you opted not to, you get the stickered sheet immediately.

If you "needed it to produce some quality textured electronic enclosure face plates" then it sounds like you're more guilty of over-promising than you're accusing Prusa of. They've been up front about the issue. You have been compensated.

I'm in the same boat. It sucks. But these incessant petulant cries of victimhood are really getting old. We get it: It sucks. Life's not perfect. People who ordered some colors of Teslas had the option withdrawn. My shiny new phone has been delayed. It sucks. We get it. You're not the only one in this boat, and Prusa would surely rather be dealing with something else. We get it.

I'm not crying victim hood, I'm venting my frustration with this company. I ordered in early December of 2017. At that point the option was buy with sticker pei sticker and get a voucher with the claim of the sheet being available within a "few weeks". As we all know that didn't happen so the order was placed in December and received in March. Between that time more delays came. At that time the delay was minimal and played down. So I was already locked in with a solid promise of the sheet being available in my wait period even confirmed by Prusa chat. Here we are almost a year later with nothing but more delays. I never promised anyone my product. I never sold it because of this issue. I was banking on them coming through with their promised dates. But it just turned into a never ending issue with no end in sight. I bet you would not wait 11 months for your new phone. Your comparing something that is completely different . It would be like pre ordering your nice new shinny new phone with a high end dual cameras. But the stipulation is the camera will not work till the software is completed as there is bugs in the software are worked out. You agree and order it as you expect this is a small issue and there on it, how long could it possibly take. You get the phone 3 months later and you use it but with no camera option. Then the promises of the software to enable the sweet camera is delayed over and over and over. You go to the website and see that new phones of the same versions are being sold have the enabled software but you have to wait for you be eligible to get it because they just don't care about people who have already paid.. Meanwhile Oh look we have a new camera phone technology . We spent all this time developing this new phone and pre order it now. Why bother wait for the update on your old phone we have a new technology out.. Please...

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Well we all guessed it. Don't expect the PC sheets to be in stock in October. I just spoke with chat and they said they will be available in the upcoming "WEEKS".. Yea right, Unreal.. Upcoming weeks means months maybe years from their track record. I guess they are putting all their efforts into their new launch of the new SLA printer and forgetting about us MK3 chumps. They keep blaming the production yields. I would think within one year you can refine your process. I mean they developed and marketed a whole new printer design in one year. Do not for one minute try to make me believe that its still an issue getting good yields after many months of using that excuse. I believe there priority's are well beyond these sheets at this point. I will not be ordering the new printer. For all I know I will have to wait over a year to receive the best selling point of the printer, and that's a maybe....

Yeah this is getting well beyond what any customer should have to endure, I agree with you.

Prusa is showing here that they have exactly zero respect for their early adopters while new customers have been receiving these sheets for months now. Ive been trying to maintain a positive outlook but its hard after all these lies/delays, i also agree with you that well over a year is more than enough time to refine any manufacturing process issues.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

No argument, not handled well at all, whilst I'm no longer complaining about the sheet I won't be accepting 'we will take full payment and deliver eventually' again. Swore I'd buy the MMU when available - I haven't, I won't be ....

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Here Here ....

I was one of those that got pretty 'irritated' way back - hells bells is it a year already ... but in hindsight having printed with the PEI sheet since January I've got to join in and say get over it, although 'entitled' I've no desire whatsoever to convert from the 'plain' two sided plate that I have, I even bought a spare as soon as possible - still on my first side on my original sheet though. Did Joe handle things well? no I don't think so his suppliers let him down, still are and it just wasn't communicated - so people filled the silence with frustration - me included. I've got over it and the printer has become the single most used tool in my collection.

If texture is important then my situation probably wouldn't have been so easy to live with - but it wasn't, it isn't and won't be any time soon for me, the build plate innovation even without powder coating isn't something to sniff at especially if you see what the alternatives are.

The powder coated sheet sure isn't the best thing the MK3 has to offer, many people are printing successfully with a Prusa that would never have achieved comparable results otherwise.

I love the printer too, I would love to get over it. The anger grows every time they pass there many promised release dates. I don't like being this way. I just want what was promised before this becomes obsolete. They are already moving into SLA technologies. At this point It felt like a sleazy car dealer bait and switch sale since it was my primary reason for ordering this with a promise I trusted in them. I already had 2 CR10's so I didn't need another printer. No one would expect this form any other businesses deal. Why do people tolerate it here? He did make good on giving out pei sticker sheets as a substitute but what good would the printer be without a sheet, so he had to. He didn't want to, I'm sure.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

Here Here ....

I was one of those that got pretty 'irritated' way back - hells bells is it a year already ... but in hindsight having printed with the PEI sheet since January I've got to join in and say get over it, although 'entitled' I've no desire whatsoever to convert from the 'plain' two sided plate that I have, I even bought a spare as soon as possible - still on my first side on my original sheet though. Did Joe handle things well? no I don't think so his suppliers let him down, still are and it just wasn't communicated - so people filled the silence with frustration - me included. I've got over it and the printer has become the single most used tool in my collection.

If texture is important then my situation probably wouldn't have been so easy to live with - but it wasn't, it isn't and won't be any time soon for me, the build plate innovation even without powder coating isn't something to sniff at especially if you see what the alternatives are.

The powder coated sheet sure isn't the best thing the MK3 has to offer, many people are printing successfully with a Prusa that would never have achieved comparable results otherwise.

I love the printer too, I would love to get over it. The anger grows every time they pass there many promised release dates. I don't like being this way. I just want what was promised before this becomes obsolete. They are already moving into SLA technologies. At this point It felt like a sleazy car dealer bait and switch sale since it was my primary reason for ordering this with a promise I trusted in them. I already had 2 CR10's so I didn't need another printer. No one would expect this form any other businesses deal. Why do people tolerate it here? He did make good on giving out pei sticker sheets as a substitute but what good would the printer be without a sheet, so he had to. He didn't want to, I'm sure.

Exactly, at some point you just run out of slack. I cut them some slack on the first half a dozen dates that came and passed with no PC sheets in sight, then i ran out of slack to cut them, at some point you just have to realize they are obviously just screwing with us. Now its just to the point of pure stupidity and i dont trust them at all, they wont be seeing another cent from me.

I was going to buy the MMU as im interested in printing with multiple materials on the same printer(mostly for water desolvable support material), but now have decided to go another way and buy a printer with 2 whole separate extruders to accomplish this, something i never would have even looked into had i not lost all faith in Prusa, now makerfarm will likely get my money for my second printer and prusa lost a MMU sale.

Re: Power coated sheets delayed again.

I ordered mine with the textured plate, they sent it with the sticker and the coupon was received later. Then I received the textured plate about a month ago.

They are sending them out, just slowly.